Jim DeRogatis, one of my favorite rock crits, has a book coming out soon called "Kill Your Idols" which features rock writers attacking some of the most sacred albums in music: Exile on Main Street, Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, Sweetheart of the Rodeo, Nevermind. You get the idea. Anybody want to take some shots here? You can choose any artist, any genre, but this will be more effective and interesting if the record you are critiquing is seminal in some form or another. Critical acclaim, popular acclaim, artist acclaim are are legit targets here.

This is, as always, just for fun. Don't be afraid to criticize: you'll get as many people who agree with you as disagree.

A few from my history:

Love: Forever Changes. As discussed elsewhere on the forums, I just don't see the appeal.

The Byrds: Sweetheart of the Rodeo. This is not a bad record, but I think it's overrated. I prefer Gram Parson's solo records (and other Byrds records) to this one.

I'll drop some more after some thinking...

I'm looking forward to the book. It took me many years to get over getting hot under the collar when somebody criticized my favorite music/bands/albums. One day I just realized that often the more somebody else digs on it, the better I like it.

That being said...

Dave Brubeck _Time Out_. "[T]he first to consciously explore time signatures outside of the standard 4/4 beat or 3/4 waltz time." (1)Uh. No. Not really. The first to slavishly devote an entire album to the gimick of unconventional time signatures, maybe. The first to feature a pianist who couldn't keep time with a metronome jammed in his ear despite one of the great rhythm sections of the time? Absolutely.

Captain Beefheart _Trout Mask Replica_ Just because for the longest time it was the easiest Captain Beefheart record to find, doesn't mean it was the best Captain Beefheart record. _Strictly Personal_ was better the year before _TMR_ and _Lick My Decals Off, Baby_ was better the year after. Honestly!

This is fun!

Now Playing: "Hard To Love" Old Crow Medicine Show" O.C.M.S. (Nettwerk America)

(1) All Music

For me, the first ones I can think of are:

The Rolling Stones "Some Girls" - great cover, but I thought all the very popular songs, at the time, were lazy and pathetic, but it turned out the joke was on me.

Lou Reed "Street Hassle" - maybe I would think differently now, but at the time, I found it difficult to get through Side 1 even though it must have been better than Side 2. I thought the string section was SOOO cheesy.

Captain Beefheart "Doc at the Radar Station" - this is my CB bash. I can't even think of anything to say, except maybe unlistenable. Again, nowadays, maybe I could see the wisdom in it.

There was a Nico LP, too bad I don't remember which one, that I actually thought was so lousy that I took it across the street to the park and flew it into a soccer goal net, and that was the last I ever saw it.

I'm scared, but I'll put this one out:

Loveless by My Bloody Valentine.
IT'S ALL THE SAME SONG, and not a very interesting song at that. I hate to sound like a whiny ignorant type, but I like music that most people find boring and I think this album is boring, exhausting and exhaustingly boring.

Can I say that I hate Nico too? I think the Velvet Underground were better off without her. And I know this is not her fault but I really hate the way she says "clon" instead of "clown." Yes, it's her accent but it bugs me.


I also can't stand Blonde Redhead. It's noise, not music. Or maybe I am too stupid to get Blonde Redhead. But bleh.

I know I'm gonna get killed for this one, but I have to speak the truth. That's what this thread is for.

Bob Dylan... WAY overrated... My college roommate is probably his biggest fan, and I got into his stuff to some degree, but I guess I just don't get it. I recently saw him with some friends at the Wiltern, and he was just so Blahhh..... No better than when I saw him in '95 at the Pantages. I mean, a handful of songs are certainly catchy, but he shouldn't be given the holy status he's been afforded.

The Strokes-

"Is this it" has an incredible Metascore. People say "The Strokes" are the saviors of rock n' roll. To me, its all same-ish-----same rythm, same singing style, same song. I enjoy the song, but I dont want to hear ten tracks worth of it.

"There was a Nico LP, too bad I don't remember which one, that I actually thought was so lousy that I took it across the street to the park and flew it into a soccer goal net," ...

...hence quite possibly the birth of the term "flown".

I probably am one of the guilty that make the sacred cows sacred. Most of the LPs mentioned I liked. I certainly was no fan of Big Star, any of the 3, although my last trip behind the Orange Curtain almost changed my mind. Also, while the Sex Pistols LP was OK, it certainly is less listenable than, oh say 500 other LPs that may be mentioned.


hal

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kuro:
I'm scared, but I'll put this one out:

Loveless by My Bloody Valentine.
IT'S ALL THE SAME SONG, and not a very interesting song at that. I hate to sound like a whiny ignorant type, but I like music that most people find boring and I think this album is boring, exhausting and exhaustingly boring.

---

Kuro, I have to agree with you. I know some will wish to excommunicate me from the site, but I must offer an "amen" from the crowd to your sermon. I like shoegaze (Ride, Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, Phaser, etc.) but I've never found Loveless that engrossing. It's just never sounded as good to me as everyone else thinks it should. I want to like the buried vocals and waves of sound, but I can't discern anything. Maybe that's the point, but it's a point that I don't care for. I keep it in my collection, though, in hopes that I'll like it more in some distant future.

I can honestly say that I think John Lennon and his post-Beatles body of work is WAY overrated. While he's got some great solo songs, I think the mystique is far greater than the body of work. The cult of Lennon, much like the cults of Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain, etc, are SO rabid, they become nonsensical in their arguments.

I appreciate what he was trying to do. But give me the two-disc McCartney greatest hits over any of Lennon's solo works any day of the week. But, then again, my power-pop leanings are well known in these parts...

quote:

---

Originally posted by RayRay:
I know I'm gonna get killed for this one, but I have to speak the truth. That's what this thread is for.

Bob Dylan... WAY overrated... My college roommate is probably his biggest fan, and I got into his stuff to some degree, but I guess I just don't get it. I recently saw him with some friends at the Wiltern, and he was just so Blahhh..... No better than when I saw him in '95 at the Pantages. I mean, a handful of songs are certainly catchy, but he shouldn't be given the holy status he's been afforded.

---

Don't let a recent performance by Dylan sway your opinion too much, Ray Ray. I've seen a lot of good Dylan shows, but the recent ones I've seen have been godawful. I think the genius of his songwriting is quite clear, but I can understand why some people don't like him: that voice. I find it endearing, but many don't.

Read the words to "Tangled Up in Blue" sometime, RayRay. If nothing else, it's a great little poem/travelogue set to music.

quote:

---

Originally posted by philosopherEric:
But give me the two-disc McCartney greatest hits over any of Lennon's solo works any day of the week.

---

Ooohhh! Foul! Foul! No fair taking a Macca collection versus a Lennon album. How about The John Lennon Collection versus Wild Life or Back to the Egg. Eh? Scares you, doesn't it?

Much as I love Lennon and much of his post Beatles career, I think McCartney has been unfairly vilified for his weaker albums while Lennon seemed to get a pass (even before his death) because of a perception that his had greater artistic integrity.

Those two were just plain good for each other.

Now Playing: "The Radio's Mine" The Lackloves The Beat and the Time streaming on Seattle's KEXP

Fair enough, LinnTate. I'll still take the Wingspan collection over the Lennon collection (augment it with whatever other Lennon album you want for the second disc) any day. But I'd shy away from some PMac and Wings records, on their own.

All of the people who hate on Macca are the same ones who swear Lennon's solo work is the greatest thing ever done musically. That's where I get off the train.

But I can't argue with "Nobody Told Me" or "Imagine" or "Cold Turkey". And props for "Merry Xmas", one of my favorite Christmas songs ever.

I've never picked up Wingspan, PE, since I have so much of the McCartney catalog on vinyl and CD already. I just took a glance at the track listing again and I have to say, it's a compelling argument. I think I'm going to have to pick up a copy and listen start to finish.

Now Playing: "A Case of You" Joni Mitchell Blue (Reprise)

Okay, here's an interesting one for you. I notice a LOT of people on here seem to love the New Pornographers and A.C. Newman. Now I am not into what they do at all, but I won't trash them since I don't know the music well enough. However, the last time the New Pornographers played here(in their Hometown!)they didn't come close to filling up a 1000 seat venue and got poor reviews for their lacklustre performance. A.C. Newman has an upcoming show at a venue half the size and is suffering similar poor sales so far. So, what's the deal? Anyone care to help me understand this situation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Smenkharon,

I like the NP records, but have never been impressed with them live. This may have to do with my perception of spotty live performances by Neko Case.

Carl (A.C.) was always an excellent live performer with Zumpano, so I wouldn't write him off. If you like the AC Newman record, I think the show is a good risk. I wish we were getting one here...

I'm glad someone else of "credibility" skewered "Exile on Main Street." I never "got" why people liked this album. It's a double-album, and the only truly good songs on it (IMHO) are "Tumblin' Dice" and "Happy". The rest of the album can be tossed. When I was in college, I actually exchanged it at a Used Record Store for something else that I wanted at the time. I'll even be more blasphemous and say that the follow-up that everyone tore apart - Goat's Head Soup - is a better album than Exile.

I also must skewer "Stairway to Heaven", the song that was ranked #1 on nearly every "All-Time Song" poll when I was growing up. I'm not a huge Zeppelin fan, but I DO like a lot of their stuff. But not this song... a load of crap.

I've also never understood the popularity of Springsteen or The Grateful Dead, but I'm not sure if this venting really fits the "sacred cow" category.

quote:

---

Originally posted by asc85:
I'm glad someone else of "credibility" skewered "Exile on Main Street." I never "got" why people liked this album. It's a double-album, and the only truly good songs on it (IMHO) are "Tumblin' Dice" and "Happy". The rest of the album can be tossed. When I was in college, I actually exchanged it at a Used Record Store for something else that I wanted at the time.

---

I'm not sure that you are referring to me, asc85, but I couldn't find anyone else who knocked "Exile" anywhere. So, if you are, because of my pitchfork 70s thread, just remember next time to omit the quotes from any words resembling "credibility", and I'll definitely do the same for you. Later, Gator.

I'm not sure if he MEANT it toward you, mark f, or toward the fact that a rock crit (allegedly credible) was penning a piece on Exile for the book. But I, for one, would stand up for your credibility any day.

I think Exile would make a decent single album. I like more than two songs on it, but not much more that 6 or 7. It is quite an overrated record.

I think Led Zeppelin IV is also quite often overrated. I'm not a huge Zep fan, but I don't find IV nearly as good as prior records.

I like Springsteen a lot, and I'll vouch for many of his albums. The two records he released simultaneously (Lucky Town and ?) would have made one good album together, with some trimming.

I don't get, and never will, the Dead. There is no way that will ever be my cup of tea...

You are so right, PhilosopherEric...I was referring to that rock critic you noted at the start of this thread.

I probably would agree that if "Exile" was a single album, I wouldn't have had the reaction that I had, although I suppose that perhaps others wouldn't have hailed it as a masterpiece.

As I said in my previous note, I like Led Zeppelin but don't love them. I agree that their "IV" album is not their best, although many consider it the best. I think that "II" is probably a more ground-breaking album, and I also think "Houses of the Holy" is a much better album. And while perhaps blasphemous to say, as it's not a "traditional" Zeppelin album, my favorite Led Zep album is probably "In Through the Out Door."