quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
The National has a drummer. Revolutionary!

I hope I haven't crossed the line into a douche yet, but I've been biting my tongue, and some have wanted me to let out a few sighs, so why not?

Hey, although I disagree with your disliking of The National, let 'er rip!

Since I love Alligator, I can't rip on the National as a band, but I will go ahead and jump on the anti-Boxer bandwagon. Me, Mark, and JGlass. Anyone else care to join the club? We can have chatroom meet-ups and everything.

I really don't hate them at all. I like them well enough, but not enough to listen over and over and over and over to the new album, which mostly leaves me cold. I'll listen to it when I need a cold shower, but it can't really compare to the real thing. Otherwise, there are too many others to listen to, all down through the ages, and I have my sights set on several other WAY overrated 2007 albums. Hey, school started, and I've got to vent a bit because some of my students...well, I can't shoot them and get away with it, at least I don't think I can.

Have you ever listened to Alligator, Mark? I'm curious what you think of that one.

Huh? What's Alligator?

It sounded a lot more alive to me. More interesting and something to hold onto. Something they will hopefully grab back onto. The new one is supposed to be "mature". Well, I'm "mature" too, but I ain't that old. Maybe they can add some Old Spice to their newfound "Maturity" and make a true masterpiece next time!!

Well, Boxer is currently top five material for me; Alligator was top ten material back in '05.

Yeah, Boxer is totally a Dad-rock album without the hooks.

Boxer is one of the best albums of '07 and has plenty of hooks, and some great lyrics. I usually find something new to like about it with each spin. I think Alligator had some really nice high points, but I'm starting to think Boxer is the better album. I'm curious as to how much you haters have actually listened to the thing. Like last year's Destroyer's Rubies, this isn't one of those albums that's going to sink in after a few listens. I will say that this album has a fair shot at topping my year-end list.

If I really was forced to chose, Boxer would very likely be my #1 of the year so far. It's almost running away with it. It does have numerous hooks, and good ones at that. I can see how someone could get on the wrong side of this one, but -- if you're inclined -- there's a sublime, long-lasting gem of an album here.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
Boxer is one of the best albums of '07 and has plenty of hooks, and some great lyrics. I usually find something new to like about it with each spin. I think Alligator had some really nice high points, but I'm starting to think Boxer is the better album. I'm curious as to how much you haters have actually listened to the thing. Like last year's Destroyer's Rubies, this isn't one of those albums that's going to sink in after a few listens. I will say that this album has a fair shot at topping my year-end list.

You had me convinced to give it a fair shot right until you mentioned Destroyer's Rubies.

quote:

Originally posted by RavingLunatic:
Yeah, Boxer is totally a Dad-rock album without the hooks.

You are so way off again, RL. I don't know what hooks you are missing but there is a ton of them on this album. I'd also have to wonder how many times you have heard the album because whether it's the gorgeous ballads, Sufjan Stevens' piano playing on a few songs or the fierce drumming and beautiful melodies on every single song--I don't really know what you are missing. Then again, I don't even think you like The Beatles so maybe it is a lost cause.

quote:

Originally posted by MajorNougat:
You had me convinced to give it a fair shot right until you mentioned Destroyer's Rubies.

Why the hate for this awesome album? I think that a lot of gems are lost and ignored because people simply don't hear them enough. This is also the case with Destroyer's Rubies; after many repeated listens that album was easily the number 2 or 3 album of the year for me. I just feel like more of these tremendous albums need to be given a fair shot; five listens for Boxer is not enough.

Destroyer's Rubies is awsome. He probably just thinks it's too weird. That seems to be the easiest way for people to discard albums that they don't feel they should have to put any effort into. Say it's "too weird". Or -- my favorite -- "I just don't like his voice."

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
The National has a drummer. Revolutionary!

I see where you're coming from here. A lot has been made of the drumming on this album, which can seem kind of silly when there really isn't anything OVERTLY awsome about it. But it is tasteful with a capitol "T" and there's just something about it.. That said, the real star of the show here is.. everything. Everything mixes together into a perfect whole, and everything is so narrow that you'll never get sick of it. That's why people are listening to it over and over again.

quote:

Originally posted by goathouse:
Destroyer's Rubies is awsome. He probably just thinks it's too weird. That seems to be the easiest way for people to discard albums that they don't feel they should have to put any effort into. Say it's "too weird". Or -- my favorite -- "I just don't like his voice."

Funny this should be mentioned, I put it on as I got dressed this morning. It took me a while to get into Destroyer's Rubies but with each listen I've grown to like it more. I take the bus around town a lot (it helps me think and it's very peaceful) and this album is perfect for when I just want to relax and listen to some stimulating lyrics (I also go to Ys and a lot of noisy stuff- Deceit ).

quote:

Originally posted by goathouse:
Destroyer's Rubies is awsome. He probably just thinks it's too weird. That seems to be the easiest way for people to discard albums that they don't feel they should have to put any effort into. Say it's "too weird". Or -- my favorite -- "I just don't like his voice."

Why is it that you just can't grasp one simple concept that virtually everybody else around here seems to get: the records you like don't necessarily do much for others. Just because I don't like a record you like, it doesn't mean that I can't handle "weird" music(I wouldn't even describe Rubies as weird). It doesn't mean I didn't give the record a chance. It doesn't mean I have bad taste. It doesn't mean you have good taste. It simply means I didn't like the record and you did. I listened to Rubies at least ten times, probably closer to fifteen or twenty. I still didn't like it. For the record, if I EVER comment on a record without prefacing it by saying "I've only listened to it a few times", you can assume that I've listened to it plenty of times. If you want to know why I didn't like a record, just ask me. I'll do my best to answer. I'm sorry if you didn't mean that as an attack on me, but it sure sounded condescending as hell.

FKA, to answer your question, goathouse was right about one thing: I sure don't like Bejar's voice. I'd rather listen to nails on a chalkboard. I know this isn't how you guys hear it, but the best way I can describe it to someone is that he sounds like imitation Dylan to me. That isn't an inherently bad thing(after all, I love Dylan), but I just can't stand his vocal inflections. I don't understand what he's trying to accomplish with them, and they detract from the actual music(which also doesn't do a whole lot for me). Not to mention that the cadence of the lyrics sounds awful to me. Dylan's wasn't perfection, but I NEVER thought they were that bad. It sounds like Bejar has what he wants to say, and he's going to say it(in an annoying voice) regardless of how it sounds over the music. For those of you who value the actual lyrics over the vocals and the music, I can see how you'd have an easier time accepting and perhaps even loving these quirks, but it just doesn't do it for me. I do like Bejar's work with NP a little better, but he bothers me there too.

That's a fair appraisal and I appreciate the clarifications. I'm actually not one of the many subscribers to the notion that everyone is entitled both to have an opinion and be right. And for the record, I was attacking you.

quote:

Originally posted by MajorNougat:
FKA, to answer your question, goathouse was right about one thing: I sure don't like Bejar's voice. I'd rather listen to nails on a chalkboard. I know this isn't how you guys hear it, but the best way I can describe it to someone is that he sounds like imitation Dylan to me. That isn't an inherently bad thing(after all, I love Dylan), but I just can't stand his vocal inflections. I don't understand what he's trying to accomplish with them, and they detract from the actual music(which also doesn't do a whole lot for me). Not to mention that the cadence of the lyrics sounds awful to me. Dylan's wasn't perfection, but I NEVER thought they were that bad. It sounds like Bejar has what he wants to say, and he's going to say it(in an annoying voice) regardless of how it sounds over the music. For those of you who value the actual lyrics over the vocals and the music, I can see how you'd have an easier time accepting and perhaps even loving these quirks, but it just doesn't do it for me. I do like Bejar's work with NP a little better, but he bothers me there too.

I hear ya there bro. I didn't partiularly like his music, even his stuff for The New Pornographers for a while. It took me a good long while before I finally got into him, but it was one of those things that once it clicked, it was great. I have some of the Destroyer albums and all of The New Pornographers' albums and I love all of Bejar's work on each of those.

But I guess we all hear things differently. If you gave it a good, fair shot then that is more than good enough for me. The only thing that gets to me--and I know you aren't one of these people--are those people that hear something once or twice and that's it for them. How could you possibly know how much you like or dislike something after one or two listens?

quote:

Originally posted by hudson:

quote:

Originally posted by Hophead:
You're thinking of a wrong generation of dads Hudson. My dad was born in 1948, he's almost 60 and he likes Sting, Eagles, etc. Problem with your logic is that he's a grandad. I was born in 73, making me 33, and for dads my age, Wilco is absofuckinglutely "Dadrock" now. And they didn't really graduate to that label until they dropped their latest dud of an album. Just watch tv and you're bound to catch a Jetta commercial to prove my point.

Dude, Sky Blue Sky is not dadrock simply because your 30 something friends think it's dull. You're the one thinking of the wrong generation.

You miss my point. Sky Blue Sky is dadrock because most 30 something dads would like it. Its a safe progression from the Jack Johnson they were listening to last year. There's nothing daring or adventurous on the album to turn most 30 something dads off, which is my point.

And trust me, my 30 something friends have no clue. Unfortunately, they're just getting into the Garden State Sountrack.

quote:

Originally posted by goathouse:
And for the record, I was attacking you.

HAHAHA

I like how straightforward you are.

Why "goathouse" though?

Well, you may or may not have noticed, but I've gone way out of my way not to "attack" much music this year. I decided to jab Boxer a few times, and I'm appreciative of all the responses. However, I have to reiterate what Major implied earlier. At some point, everybody draws a line and says that I've invested enough time in something. Maybe it's one, three, five, ten, 20 listens, but at some point, you say, "I give up!" (at least for now). I am going to listen to these other things because I enjoy them more. If you didn't do this, you'd have nothing to do but listen to new music 24/7, and actually, I don't think that's enough time. Well, maybe you do that anyway, but that doesn't leave time for old music or anything outside of music.

This isn't a lecture because what I'm saying is really old. Just remember that nobody likes everything. Or do you? Show of hands now.

Anyway, when Boxer wins the crown, you can crow about it, but then you'll be just another brick in the wall.