Aside from the heart-breaking disappointment that was The Tipping Point, The Roots have created great album after great album. Does it get any better than "The Next Movement"?

They have had some exceptional singles and select tracks...maybe a half dozen or so.But...besides that they are very boring in my eyes.

I mean the only ounce of credability they were holding on to...was the whole live rap band schtick.They threw that out the window on their last album and lost hoards of dedicated fans.Mine not being one.

I think their rise peaked last on last years album...and especially on the seed 2.0.Which is one great track...which surprises me why it doesnt get much consideration on those singles list of the decade(00'-04').

I could put together an collection of about 12 tracks from all their albums and be very pleased.But one whole normal album has yet to please.In my eyes.

VERY BORING???!!

Yeah, I can understand that. But I still like 'em. Black Thought's underrated, man.

black thought is right were he should be

right in the middle of the pack...not great and not horrible.

I dont think the roots are that bad.I just need to be in the mood...and i dont think i could sit there and listen to one whole album all the way through.

Black Thought used to be the perfect emcee for a rap band. meaning that he didn't stand out from the other musicians, he merely enhanced the sound of the whole. Now, with the loss of the band, he's lost his initial purpose. The tipping Point did have a few decent tracks. i.e the instrumentals at the end, but i almost cried with grief the first time i heard the album. The Roots are dead.

Hate to bring up an old thread but since its on the topic of The Roots I have to put my two cents...

First I have to ask, "Have you ever seen The Roots live?!?"

If you haven't then I feel sorry for you and you should pick up tickets to the next show closest to your home. Also if you haven't seen them play live then you can't have a well rounded opinion on the band as a whole. Like anything in life you must experience before judging.

If you have seen them live...kudos to you. Go check them out again.

Its one thing to judge the albums but you can't possibly appreciate The Roots unless you've seen them live. Its all about their live show. Granted I was disappointed with The Tipping Point but I think I have an appreciation for it cuz I saw them live a few months before the LP dropped, my fifth time. The songs they played were new and exciting and their live show is just phenomenal.

When Things Fall Apart dropped I saw them live and they were just amazing. Black Thought was skatting and freestylin vs. the individual musicians, they would like semi-battle and it was just so raw. When Phernology dropped I saw them again, this time they lost Malik B, added another precussionist and an electric guitar player, beyond Hub. Midway through the show each musician would do a 15 minute solo and just jam out!

As for Black Thought...he is a medium level emcee. He ain't the best but he ain't the worst. He was better when he could play off of Malik B's verses, back and forth, to create some vocal change ups and textures. But he can still hold his own. On the Tipping Poing check Stay Cool, Web and Boom! and his guest spots on Talib's Guerrilla Monsoon Rap w/ Pharoahe Monch. Mindblowin'.

I can also understand that they lost fans when Phernology dropped, a bit more commercial then die hard fans are used to. At the same time they gained a whole knew base of fans. They may lose and gain some fans but their base is always the same. I liken the Roots to Radiohead. Radiohead had a sound and a fanbase with their first three LPs then when the one two punch of Kid A and Amnesiac came some of those original fans were turned off. At the same time they gained new fans with their more experimental sound. The Roots are the same way. With Organix, Do You Want More, Illadelphalflife, and Things Fall Apart, the Roots kept a very large original fanbase but lost some and gained some with Phernology. Going mainstream was just another way to spread their music. Its unfortunate but shit happens. I guess you can't stay underground forever. Nature of the beast.

I think that Things Fall Apart is just one of the best Hip-Hop albums of all time that I can listen to over and over. There are just too many high points that can affect a listener.

Hell, you even have Jay-Z using the Roots. When you have one of the best emcees in Hip-Hop jamming with the Roots you know they're the shit. Jay even had ?uesto be the music coordinator for his last performance, Fade to Black.

I recommend listening to Organix, Do You Want More?, and Things Fall Apart again and catching their live show. It may change your life.

The Roots aren't dead. They're just resting. If you think The Tipping Point was their low point then they can only get better.

PASS THE POPCORN!!!

I really think that the roots should revel in their fame that they have now.They have achieved commercial stardom.Questlove seems to be everywhere.When in all actuality they are mediocre musicians.I have seen them live and maybe it was me but they seemed a bit lazy and not on point at all.

Like I said before they have created some extremely good singles and if you put together an album containing those good songs.Then you would have a complete album.So far they have yet to put together a complete album.They always go off on some tangent and forget to come back.That is completely evident live, their "solos" where almost laughable.But i am guessing that it must have been an off night or something like that.

I do like the roots...but i dont think they are that good live.But then again it sound slike you love them.If i loved them as much as you did.I would love even there crappiest performances.

Yeah I love the Roots. I'm sure you have your favorites that you love regardless of weak live efforts or shitty albums. right? cool.

What I think is important about the Roots is that they are a "water-shed" band. Meaning that their sound was something that sparked others to go in that direction. That's what's important about them. After Organix, you have groups like The Digable Plantets using jazz inflected beats. You have the A Tribe Called Quest coming out with The Low End Theory. The Black Eyed Peas always perform with a live band. You have how many Hip-Hop "bands" emerging, i.e. Heiruspecs, Crown City Rockers, Automato, etc. I think the Roots were able to change the way Hip-Hop is being made.

I also think the fact that they are a "band" is critical as well. They stayed away from traditional methods of creating Hip-Hop music and instead took cues from their live instrumentation. It gives their music a more raw feeling. The one thing that bugs me about Hip-Hop (and I'm a hip-hop head) is the lack of "true" or "pure" musicianship, in the traditional sense. Now I couldn't scratch or blend two records on turntables, nor could I come up with dope ass lyrics, but Hip-Hop (as a whole) lacks a certain traditional quality. Hip-Hop is a different form of creating music that should gets dapps as much as a piano player or a guitar player should. Don't get me wrong. I just think the Roots started something in Hip-Hop that is very important to its history.

So Imprezu, do you think the Roots should quit while they are ahead or keep on going?

The roots should definately not quit.I just hope they go back to their heyday and that style and just forget the most recent album.

I am not posotive but i dont know how much organix could have influenced other groups that you stated.TCQ 'Low End Theory" came out in 1991.2 years before the release of organix.I would strongly suggest that everything you said about the influence of the roots should be shifted to Tribe Called Quest.Their legacy will never be questioned.Digable Planets came out the same year as well, and it is not like people wher enot flirting with that sound for a while.Jazz smaples have utilised in hip-hop since the beggining and always will have a huge impact.

I am curious though.Where does stetasonic fit in?Probabbly the original hip-hop live band.They pretty much laid the foundation for everyone you are talking about.Is prince paul not an evil genious.His skills are highly underrated.On fire came out in 86'.Listen to that album.It is incredible.I love it.

I still think one of my favorite jazz-rap groups is the Jungle Brothers.They are not mentioned enough with the likes of groups like tribe called quest and de la soul.When in fact they where just as good if not better.Highy reccomended.

And on an end note.
I hate the black eyed peas with a passion, band or no band they are trash.

Thanks for the input Imprezu. Yes, you are correct. ATCQ should be getting the daps for the jazz inflected sound in Hip-Hop, which it does. The Low End Theory was first of its kind. They certainly made the sound. My bad. But I think the fact that the Roots ARE a jazz band has been more affective then just pure sampling. Also, what i'm getting at more is the live band aspect of Hip-Hop. I've seen ATCQ live before but their show isn't as exciting as the Roots live show.

True, Stetasonic was the first live band in Hip-Hop but I don't know if they have had an affect on the genre of music, as far as the live band idea goes, as much as the Roots have, to garner as many imitators as of late.

I have nothing against Prince Paul. His production on De La's 3 Feet High and Prince Among Thieves was certainly dope. Although I was really disappointed with Politics of the Business. As for The Jungle Brothers...to me they're all crew with De La and ATCQ under the Native Tounges moniker. And just as dope.

And on an end note...
as far as BEP, I was referring to the live band they use when performing. Although Bridging the Gap and Behind the Front were half way decent to good LPs...Elephunk and anything I hear on the radio or video on MTV from Monkey Business is garbage. I was walking into the record store by my school the other day and saw a middle aged white guy in a mercedes jamming to "Where is the Love?" windows down, sunroof open, blasting that shit. I shed a tear for Hip-Hop that day.

I think you nailed it there Imprezu! And yeah, Prince Paul is totally a genius, One of the best dj's I've ever seen live!
I would add that Ultramagnetic MC's have to be credited for being the first rap act to use a live band in the recording of their albums.
I own or have at one time owned every Roots album, and have seen them live a few times. They were indisputably stronger with Malik and Rahzel on stage. The last time I saw them was hugely disappointing, the set was filled with egotism, macho bravado and sexism. Things I used to enjoy about the Roots due to their absence. They had crew walking the floor all night trying to get hot girls backstage, it was embarassing, and eroded a great relationship this city used to have with them. The Tipping Point was truly that in more than name!
One lame album and a shameful live show will not lessen my enjoyment of their previous albums and shows, but my respect for them was lowered, and I really don't care what they do in the future.

You guys make great points. The Tipping Point was a disappointment but I try to appreciate the good points. In the future, I just hope the Roots can either take their music to another level or return to form.

I think they will.They had to see their mis-steps on the tipping point.

ONE YEAR LATER...

What does everybody think of The Game Theory?

I'm listening to Game Theory as I type this - first Roots album for me. Impressions are positive so far!

I enjoyed Things Fall Apart, and Phrenology too, but The Game Theory is just fantastic, absolutely brilliant IMO. I'm going to see them live for the first time on Sunday in Glasgow and I can't wait

quote:

Originally posted by cpa13:
ONE YEAR LATER...

What does everybody think of The Game Theory?

Simply a solid effort from them. They are sadly one of the most overlooked, underappreciated acts in all of hip-hop. They have great influences and to put it succinctly, exemplify everything that is great about hip-hop. Game Theory is easy top ten, top five material for me. It is a strong return to form, smooth with a great flow and it is great to have Malik B back! I still feel that Things Fall Apart is their best album, but this year's release is a nice addition to their already stellar repertoire. Biggles, after you finish with Game Theory check out all of their albums. I wish I could find Organix but it seems like this only album of theirs that I don't have will always elude me.

Any news on there next album? I heard a release date of late next year.

quote:

Originally posted by Turenne:
Any news on there next album? I heard a release date of late next year.

I haven't heard anything yet but I would love to get a new album from them.