Who do you think is THE WORST rapper of all time?

My vote HAS to go to Gucci Mane. He bites rhymes that aren't even good. If you're going to steal someones ideas, make sure they're good ones.

Plus in one of his videos on of the girls gets milk poured on them, what the funk?

Either Kevin Federline or Robert VanWinkle.

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Originally posted by hudson:
Either Kevin Federline or Robert VanWinkle.

totally

I'll probably be shouted down for this, but Jay-Z is one of the WORST rappers out there and the MOST overrated one there ever was! His raps could be set to any beat and sound exactly the same because the man has NO RHYTHM. The guy also thinks he's so friggin' sexy. If there are 2 things Jay-Z is NOT, it's a good rapper and a sex symbol. The guy is shaped like a frickin' pear!

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Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
I'll probably be shouted down for this, but Jay-Z is one of the WORST rappers out there and the MOST overrated one there ever was! His raps could be set to any beat and sound exactly the same because the man has NO RHYTHM. The guy also thinks he's so friggin' sexy. If there are 2 things Jay-Z is NOT, it's a good rapper and a sex symbol. The guy is shaped like a frickin' pear!

you guessed right!
the WORST rapper ever wouldn't have the success that Jay-Z has; no one can make it this far off of luck. Jay-Z is probably the best mainstream rapper out there.... by default. He's average, and since everyone else is shit..... well, thats all im gonna say.

First off, props to Monkey_boy for having the the balls to say what the hordes of Jay-Z fanboys refuse to understand.

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Originally posted by DJCookieDoh:

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Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
I'll probably be shouted down for this, but Jay-Z is one of the WORST rappers out there and the MOST overrated one there ever was! His raps could be set to any beat and sound exactly the same because the man has NO RHYTHM. The guy also thinks he's so friggin' sexy. If there are 2 things Jay-Z is NOT, it's a good rapper and a sex symbol. The guy is shaped like a frickin' pear!

you guessed right!
the WORST rapper ever wouldn't have the success that Jay-Z has; no one can make it this far off of luck. Jay-Z is probably the best mainstream rapper out there.... by default. He's average, and since everyone else is shit..... well, thats all im gonna say.

DJCookiedoh, I'm sorry, but selling millions of records doesn't mean you're talented. Just because Jay-Z's albums continue to go platinum, doesn't mean he's all that talented of a rapper. It just means that he's a straight up marketing machine. He knows how to sell himself. In fact, that's his job, selling himself as a brand.

I can name dozens of musical acts that continue to go platinum yet lack what I would consider any real talent. Good Charlotte, Cisco, Sum 41, Blink 182, Britney Spears, Timberlake, My Chemical Romance, the list goes on and on. All these people have had multiple albums go platinum. And they all suck, imo.

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Originally posted by hudson:
First off, props to Monkey_boy for having the the balls to say what the hordes of Jay-Z fanboys refuse to understand.

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Originally posted by DJCookieDoh:

quote:

Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
I'll probably be shouted down for this, but Jay-Z is one of the WORST rappers out there and the MOST overrated one there ever was! His raps could be set to any beat and sound exactly the same because the man has NO RHYTHM. The guy also thinks he's so friggin' sexy. If there are 2 things Jay-Z is NOT, it's a good rapper and a sex symbol. The guy is shaped like a frickin' pear!

you guessed right!
the WORST rapper ever wouldn't have the success that Jay-Z has; no one can make it this far off of luck. Jay-Z is probably the best mainstream rapper out there.... by default. He's average, and since everyone else is shit..... well, thats all im gonna say.

DJCookiedoh, I'm sorry, but selling millions of records doesn't mean you're talented. Just because Jay-Z's albums continue to go platinum, doesn't mean he's all that talented of a rapper. It just means that he's a straight up marketing machine. He knows how to sell himself. In fact, that's his job, selling himself as a brand.

I can name dozens of musical acts that continue to go platinum yet lack what I would consider any real talent. Good Charlotte, Cisco, Sum 41, Blink 182, Britney Spears, Timberlake, My Chemical Romance, the list goes on and on. All these people have had multiple albums go platinum. And they all suck, imo.

i agree with you to an extent, but i don't know if pop groups would be the best comparison with hip hop. generally the shelf life for a rapper is very limited, as there just seems to be more turn over in this genre. sure many terrible albums reach platinum status, but how many rappers continually produce platinum albums? the ones who do are generally considered talented by at least their constituency. look at rappers with multiple high selling albums and it is hard to find someone that doesn't have some degree of critical respect.

Anybody who dismisses Jay-Z's lyrical ability is either being sarcastic or doesn't know two squirts of Monkey_Boy piss about Hip Hop. He may not be the most lyrically talented emcee around but he's pretty damn close and has the most consistent quality of any rapper dead or alive, not to mention his unquestionable versatility upperhand on greats like Nas, Mos Def, Raekwon, etc. Shit, ask the legends. Scarface, Ghostface, Common, Kane... all of which have revered Jigga for his talent. Even KRS called him the greatest lyricist of all time. So what's ya beef, lil soulja? Jay's metaphors, wordplay, energy and swagger is untouchable.

I've never been in a Hip Hop forum with niggas so uneducated on Hip Hop. I hate it when folks pretend they know the spirit that defines the movement and spit at the direction of mainstream artists simply because they're mainstream. You think I can't tell who actually listens to lyrics? I bet you think Canibus is a deep rapper, huh?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frame,

I'm not sure what Monkey thinks, but I know he basically listens to nothing but rap/hip hop, so I would at least give him the courtesy of his opinion, even if you think it sucks. And I'm pretty sure he's NOT into "indie rap".

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Originally posted by Frame:
Anybody who dismisses Jay-Z's lyrical ability is either being sarcastic or doesn't know two squirts of Monkey_Boy piss about Hip Hop.

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I've never been in a Hip Hop forum with niggas so uneducated on Hip Hop.

Ya know what, Frame? You're right. I don't know squat about "Hip Hop". I listen to RAP. I don't dance, nor do I care to listen to rap that only speaks of hoes and money. The name of this thread is WORST RAPPER EVER not WORST HIP HOP ARTIST EVER. (Although he'd still be on the list, I wouldn't have posted in a thread with that title.) Of the rappers you listed, I only really listen to one of 'em. For an explanation as to why he would probably listen to Jay-Z, I would say an artist wouldn't really listen to something similar to what they sound like. They'd morethanlikely listen to a different "style". (I have a friend with a garage band and he listens to all kinds of crap that makes our ears bleed, but he doesn't want to listen to anything that sounds close to what he does so that he has no outside influences on his music.) It could also just be a sign of respect since Jay-Z's been in the spotlight for so long. I've heard all sorts of rappers and critics praise LL Cool J for staying in the game for so long, but when was the last time he was relevant?

The argument that Jay-Z can't stink because he's so popular is one I've heard many times. One thing I've read many, many times in the movie section is that those that are MOST POPULAR are usually the worst Hollywood has to offer. Why would this fact flip-flop when it comes to music? I've also heard the one that says he freestyles all of his raps. So his problem seems to be that he's just too lazy to sit down and tighten up his lyrics. For some reason I picture him being alot like Krusty the Klown in "Lisa VS Malibu Stacy". He quickly runs into the studio, spits out some lines and runs back out.

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He may not be the most lyrically talented emcee around...

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Jay's metaphors, wordplay, energy and swagger is untouchable.

How can these two comments be about the same person? If he's so "untouchable", how can he NOT be the most lyrically talented? Jay's metaphors? Let's "listen" to his opening verses in "This Can't Be Life" (the ONLY song where the man does a halfway decent job, but he's still not great. I only own this song for Scarface):
"See I was -- born in sewage, born to make bomb music
Flow tight like I was born Jewish
Used the streets as a conduit - I kept arms
38 longs inside my mom's Buick
At any given moment Shawn could lose it, be on the news
Iron cuffs - arms through it; or stuffed with embalmin' fluid
Sh*t, I'm goin through it - mom dukes too
Tears streamin down her pretty face, she got her palms to it
My life is gettin too wild
I need to bring some sort kinda calm to it
Bout to lose it; voices screamin "Don't do it!"
It's like '93, '94, 'bout the year
that Big and Mach dropped; and "Illmatic" rocked
outta every rag drop, and the West had it locked
Everybody doin 'em, I'm still scratchin on the block
like "Damn; I'ma be a failure"
Surrounded by thugs, drugs, and drug - paraphenalia
Cops courts, and their thoughts is to derail us
Three time felons in shorts with jealous thoughts
Tryin figure where your mail is, guesstimate the weight you sellin
So they can send shots straight to your melon; wait!
It gets worse, baby momma water burst
Baby came out stillborn, still I gotta move on
Though my heart still torn, life gone from her womb
Don't worry, if it was meant to be, it'll be -- soon"
If you actually hear it you'll find the man isn't going with the beat of the music. The way he cuts up his lines to get a rhyme out of them is soooo 1980's! His "wordplay" on 'tight' & 'Jewish' is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard outside one of his solo raps. Energy? The man has no energy in his voice! He's monotone! It's supposed to be a rap about hard times and he sounds like he's bragging about it! Swagger? Pleeeeeease. He's got about as much swagger as Peter Parker had in "Spider-Man 3" after he got the black suit.

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I bet you think Canibus is a deep rapper, huh?

Who?

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Originally posted by Marky f of the Moderatin' Bunch:
And I'm pretty sure he's NOT into "indie rap".

You got that right, Mr. f! I don't listen to "indie crap", but most of the rappers I listen to don't get much radio play. A few of my favorite rappers are Scarface, C-Bo, UGK, Mr. Pookie, Lil Keke, Luni Corleone and Brotha Lynch Hung. Go ahead. Name me ONE Jay-Z rap that can even compare to any of their's. Give me one that can beat Scarface's "Win, Lose or Draw" or "I Seen A Man Die", UGK's "Hi-Life" or "One Day", Brotha Lynch Hung's "Refuse To Lose" or "Act Right", C-Bo's "Straight Killer" or "357", Mr. Pookie's "Gangsta" or "The Rippla", or Lil KeKe's "I'm A G" or "Come & Smoke With Me".

I just popped in here for a laugh, but I gotta agree with my simian overlord.
Those lyrics by Jay-Z are awful.

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Originally posted by Ishmaels Coffin:
I just popped in here for a laugh, but I gotta agree with my simian overlord.
Those lyrics by Jay-Z are awful.

seconded. all jay-z has to offer is his lyrical ability - no production, no beats, no actual writing of music whatsoever. his lyrics can be painfully bad as Monkey_Boy rightfully pointed out so i don't see where his supposed talent is (shocking that so many people think he is the best).

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He may not be the most lyrically talented emcee around...

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Jay's metaphors, wordplay, energy and swagger is untouchable.

How can these two comments be about the same person? If he's so "untouchable", how can he NOT be the most lyrically talented?

You fail to look at things from all angles. Jay-Z is a top-notch lyricist but by no means the best, yet looking at a perspective where all things that define a talented emcee are considered he comes out on top. The average ignorant consumer thinks that rap is just about putting a bunch of words together and try to make the shit sound cool. Hov's balance of charisma, swag and lyricism are untouchable, which is why many consider him the greatest there ever was.

And Jay-Z is "so popular" because he's in touch with what the masses are looking for: 99.9% of the time it's a fly beat. Nevertheless the man doesn't sell himself short when it comes to kickin' it up in the booth. B.I.G. was similar as an icon and as a mouthpiece for New York Hip Hop but I've got a lingering doubt that you'd ever call him garbage. As a matter of fact Smalls did the same as Hov and went off the top... not necessarily a freestyle, mind you. The truth is both of these geniuses kept the words on the mind and kept the memory of the songs fresh. And as far as top emcees voicing their praise for Jay-Z being bullshit then I guess you can put the universal love for Rakim and Biggie in the same light, huh?

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Go ahead. Name me ONE Jay-Z rap that can even compare to any of their's.

I'll do you one better. I'll give you ONE verse from ONE garbage song. Remember the song Sunshine?

Who be, in a Japanese restaurant, eating sushi
Drinking saki, it's me, and my mami with the doobie
Cutie, smellin like Tiaka, half-Phillipine thing
For now, let's call her Suki, got me this booty bangin
Properly, in Versace pants, cocky bow-legged stance
A thing of beauty, watch me, body crazy
Tits Firm like Nature, Foxy, Nas and AZ
Truly reason to bug the toolie and keep laced in jewelry watch me
Girlie tried to lure me and lock me you gotta get up early
Cause who's gettin played is not me
"Surely you jest," she said, "if you thought I was purely
out for the bucks you woulda bucked stuck and dropped me"
I said maturely, "You right
but better safe than sorry, but for the lovebirds
can move to the suburbs, I need to double check your story
To make sure that you one of a kind
And you deserve to be my Sunshine"

This is one of the worst songs on Jigga's resume but that verse merks a Bun B, a Pimp C, a Scarface, and a C-Bo number without a doubt. "Tits Firm like Nature, Foxy, Nas and AZ"... nigga puts down a punchline like no other and coasts as effortlessly as Big. Shit, put a VERSE down from any one of those songs you mentioned that compares to even this.

And as for the LL thing you're looking at a respect factor which doesn't necessarily equate to talent. Anyone who's been in the game for more than a decade and still can put a Plat record on the charts is bound to get respect. But the truth is Jay-Z's been praised for more than that from artists similar in status and vision. BTW, how the fuck do you know LL and not know Canibus?

Energy isn't the same as style. Have you seen him perform? It's flawless. He coasts how the song is recorded and every word can be heard. Compare him to Nas or 50 Cent... these niggas barely say anything on stage. Shit, most emcees got their own goddamn voice recording playing in the background during their concerts. Not to mention he has songs from damn near a decade ago still in the memory. The bottom line is Jay-Z is the most balanced hip hop artist out today and probably ever was. So why don't you go back to your garage, put on a rap record and practice tapping your foot on time, pimpin...

EDIT: BTW, you've got the definitions of "rap" and "hip hop" twisted. Read up, rookie.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frame,

quote:

Originally posted by Frame:
BTW, you've got the definitions of "rap" and "hip hop" twisted. Read up, rookie.

Actually, I don't call MY RAP Hip Hop. Period. It's HARDCORE GANGSTA RAP and I don't really care what anyone else calls it. There is no hipping or hopping during the raps I listen to. Head bobbing and gang signs, maybe, but that's as far as it goes with me and my boys. We keep it: My rappers don't get up on stage and dance, either. Calling the rap I listen to "Hip Hop" would lump it together with the likes of Jay-Z, and he doesn't belong in the same room with any of these guys as far as I'm concerned. They'd whoop his @ss. Lyrically and physically.

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The average ignorant consumer thinks that rap is just about putting a bunch of words together and try to make the shit sound cool.

Um... that's what Jay-Z does, man. You typed it yourself:

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And Jay-Z is "so popular" because he's in touch with what the masses are looking for: 99.9% of the time it's a fly beat.

What's your point? That it's cool to have crappy lyrics if the beat is good? His voice goes OVER the beat, so his "fly beats" are ruined by a hack at the mic. Besides, there was nothing "fly" about his choice to sample a song from "Annie". MOST ANNOYING SONG. EVER!

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B.I.G. was similar as an icon and as a mouthpiece for New York Hip Hop but I've got a lingering doubt that you'd ever call him garbage.

Boy... you just don't know me very well, do you? Yet, that still doesn't keep you from making assumptions about my musical tastes. No, I never really liked Biggie, either. I don't think he's as crappy as Jay-Z because he actually made a few songs I enjoyed, but not many.

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And as far as top emcees voicing their praise for Jay-Z being bullshit then I guess you can put the universal love for Rakim and Biggie in the same light, huh?

As for "top emcees voicing their praise", I don't care about any of that. The man can't rap. The top emcees could tell me sh*t tastes like ice cream, but I ain't gonna close my eyes and take a big bite because THEY said so. It's what I think that counts to me, and I think the dude doesn't have a drop of talent in his entire body! He couldn't rap his way out of a paper bag unless his fans helped him! That's what I think!

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Shit, put a VERSE down from any one of those songs you mentioned that compares to even this.

First off, not one of the raps I listed were crappy "Hip Hop Love Songs" (Great choice. You really showed me. ), but I accept your challenge.

UGK's "Hi-Life":
Pimp C: I'm tired livin' f*cked up, tired of livin' bad
Tired of hearing grandma tellin' me
When you gonna go to church Chad
Now I'm tryin' to live up to the image
That she would want me to be
But I got one foot in the street
And every week I flip a Ki
I never wanted to be a G
But n*ggas depend on me
It ain't safe to hit I-10
So n*ggas fear with me
And all the n*ggas that I went to school wit
Got cool wit, went to fool wit
I dealt selling that white sh*t
Pushin' cocaine, n*ggas holding pistols
Dependant on the game
What ya want me to do, its like somebody cut my throat
Got $20,000, tryin' to turn it to a hundred
And ain't nobody got no dough
So n*ggas came to smoke, bad habits do exist
And if this b*tch came thinking to ease my mind
By sucking my d*ck
B*tch make up for a minute cause that ship never lasts
In 1996 n*ggas is dyin' from layin' on that @ss
First Magic Johnson got it, then Eazy-E died
And you wonder why yo' n*ggas out there smokin' fry
I wish that I could tell you I wore a rubber everytime
But if I told you that n*gga you know that I be lyin'
And I've been f*cking p*ssy since the tender age of nine
It's gettin' to be a full-time job just tryin' to stay alive
And Crackers tend to smirk, offended by the weed smoke comin' off my shirt
But still I puts in work and front for my folks
Cause where I come from n*gga, family just ain't no joke
Now D be gettin' married, and Edgar on the boat
But what about Baby Doe, some say that nigga's selling dope
And you know that I ain't lyin', that just how family talk
But what you gonna do when the Devil poke you with his fork
And everybody sittin' in the pulpit ain't saved
Most preachers are false prophets
Fuckin' hoes and gettin' paid
I'm lookin' for the...
Hi Life
We livin' that hi life
Hi Life (Hi Life...mmmmmmmmmm)
We livin' that hi life...mmmmmmmmmmm
Bun B: You only got one life to live
That's all they give you to do it
You could bullshit your way through it
Or stay true, it can be complicated cause niggas
Be gettin' shot in the cross
People and names get lost
The people in the lane get tossed
The streets'll eat your ass alive
Take your positions with pistols, bare hands, and knives
And nobody's surprised if somebody
Don't survive the dusk to see dawn
It's treacherous how we was left to die
On the streets that we be on
Motherfuckers sleepin' on them corners that you pee on
Probably cause society felt they didn't belong
Now who in the fuck made it this way for us
Got all these little niggas slangin' that yay
Because it ain't like they make high levels gainable
And that punk piece of American pie just ain't obtainable
So how can I substain a full life before death
Man, I'm left out here to make it by my goddamn self
Now c'mon, who gives a damn when you can't afford the turkey or ham
Livin' off of Raemon Noodles, beef jerky, and Spam
Now that's sad, but that's a fact of life
All I can see in front of me is up for grabs
Come off that slab
Cause poverty will push a nigga over that brink
Over the edge especially if you don't know your ledge
So instead of being without, I'm hustling
Tryin' to get through these ungodly days
Thinkin' of ways to get the fuck outta this maze
A man will committ a crime 'cause a fuckin' crime pays
I'm going through a phase you don't grow out
Until there's a reason a mother fuckers gots to pour out
His 40 on the curb, disturbed and left with no doubt in his mind
But still sometimes he don't know why
He walkin' around just hopin'
He can get one more try to make it
It's bullshit he going through, but yo, he gots to take it
You can't fake it, to get that hi life

Scarface's "I Seen A Man Die":
He greets his father with his hands out
Rehabilitated slightly, glad to be the man's child
The world is different since he's seen it last
Out of jail in seven years and he's happy that he's free at last
All he had was his mother's worth
Now she's gone and he's gotta make a
change and make it for the beddah
But he's black so he's got one strike against him
And he's young plus he came up in the system
But he's smart and he's finally makin' eighteen
And this goes to get on top and try to stay clean
So he's calling up his homie who dun came up
Livin' like this now they dealin' with the same stuff
And had that attitude that who he was was worth it
and with that fucked up attitude he killed his first mate
Now it's different and he's dead as dirt
And realized that the name ain't coming up but it still hurt
And cain't nobody change this
It's ninteen-ninety-foe and we up against the same shit

Lil Keke's "I'm A G":
Lord have mercy momma done raised a real thug
Me and my daddy cool but he showed me tough love
Fifteen I was asked out gettin' grown
By this time my old man had just moved on
Momma couldn't drive so she didn't have a car
And I could still see my T-lady walkin' far
Sweat on her face, purse and a grocery bag
Me and my sister sh*t that's all we ever had
Stuck my chest out became the man of the house
Now I'm the bread winner, go get it at any cost
Flippin' burgers, washing cars, and cutting yards
I graduated to cooking soft and selling hard
Highschool is over with I'm on a path
To mo hoes mo dough and a new slab
I'ma B.G hard headed so fly
But I'ma gangsta and like this till I die

C-Bo's "Straight killer:
Murder rap is my muthaf*ckin hobby
and I won't roll if it ain't about a 187 robbery
Hit man on the list police pissed
Cuz taz hit and they miss
I hit a dope for 80 G's and I moved on
Settled up my cattle, got my groove on
Still runnin' no they ain't just for gunnin'
Quick to bust through your guts and leave the crowd stunned
We shoot 'em up from they knees (from they knees)
Plus smother b*tches with pillows until they can't breathe
Don't f*ck with a mad man black clan
Burnt up American flag, and
We bring the funk to your front porch
Last fool that tried to run out got blasted and torched
Yeah sick mind of a lunatic that stood hard on a young
From elementary to the penitentiary

Finally, you can actually listen to Brotha Lynch Hung's "Refuse To Lose"

Why would you pick a "garbage song" if you're trying to prove he isn't garbage? That's just plain goofy and this was too easy. Now, go find a bad @ss Jay-Z song. (Bad @ss as in: NOT CRAPPY "HIP HOP" TALKIN' 'BOUT HOES/GIRLFRIENDS OR BLING!) If you can.

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BTW, how the fuck do you know LL and not know Canibus?

Why should I? He doesn't sound like anybody I'd wanna listen to. I'm usually right on these things. I knew from the moment I heard there was a "rapper" called Puff Daddy that he was gonna stink like @ss. (Nope. I didn't listen to B.I.G. enough to know about the Laurel to his Hardy.) I know about LL because every dude in the 'hood was bumpin' "I'm Bad" when it first came out! I've been around alotta different rap, so chances are I've probably heard a Canibus song, but apparently it wasn't one I HAD to find.

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Have you seen him perform?

Why would I wanna see him perform if I don't like his "style"? I bet he gets reeeal sweaty. I don't think I wanna see that.

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Not to mention he has songs from damn near a decade ago still in the memory.

Are you saying that Jay-Z is the only artist who can remember the songs he's written? GOOD GRAVY! I WAS WRONG! JAY-Z IS AWESOME! (In case you couldn't tell... I was being sarcastic.)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Monkey_Boy,

quote:

Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:

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Originally posted by Frame:
BTW, you've got the definitions of "rap" and "hip hop" twisted. Read up, rookie.

Actually, I don't call MY RAP Hip Hop. Period. It's HARDCORE GANGSTA RAP and I don't really care what anyone else calls it. There is no hipping or hopping during the raps I listen to. Head bobbing and gang signs, maybe, but that's as far as it goes with me and my boys. We keep it: My rappers don't get up on stage and dance, either. Calling the rap I listen to "Hip Hop" would lump it together with the likes of Jay-Z, and he doesn't belong in the same room with any of these guys as far as I'm concerned. They'd whoop his @ss. Lyrically and physically.

That paragraph alone is concrete evidence that you really don't know shit. Redefining a movement that's been around longer than you've been alive is not only disrespectful to the game it's just downright looney tunes. This is like me telling you swim is -verb 1. to consume food; take a meal. By your ridiculous definition the likes of 2Pac and Big L were not hip hop. Keep away from the the ganja stick.

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And Jay-Z is "so popular" because he's in touch with what the masses are looking for: 99.9% of the time it's a fly beat.

What's your point? That it's cool to have crappy lyrics if the beat is good?

"Nevertheless the man doesn't sell himself short when it comes to kickin' it up in the booth." That's my point. Maybe I should dumb it down for you like Lupe: what it means, sir, is that he is consistently aware of what the general public is usually into yet still maintains his lyricism, unlike others, such as Young Jeezy, Rick Ross, etc.

I don't really care what you think. It's a matter of respect and the fact that you're dissing someone's talent because you haven't an ear for top-notch wordplay. You basically spit on Pac's, Big L's and Biggie's graves so when this message closes its curtains I'm calling it a wrap with you're uneducated, wannabe know-it-2-tha-bone rap fan ass.

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Why would you pick a "garbage song" if you're trying to prove he isn't garbage? That's just plain goofy and this was too easy. Now, go find a bad @ss Jay-Z song. (Bad @ss as in: NOT CRAPPY "HIP HOP" TALKIN' 'BOUT HOES/GIRLFRIENDS OR BLING!) If you can.

Want the truth? Because even on a weak song his wordplay delivers. I thought even you'd get passed that idea but let me dumb it down again like my boy Lupe: Even on a song that's universally panned by both fans and critics, sir, Jay-Z presented witty metaphors, complex rhythm similar to a Rakim flow, and clever narrative all in one verse. As for the lyrics you posted: it's ALL narrative. There's nothing profoundly interesting other than a rhyming fairytale and even the storytelling itself was nothing of Nas or Ghostface caliber. Where are the metaphors? The punchlines? As for delivery, Pimp C is wizzack! Rest in peace, my nigga, but his shit was wack. And Scarface -- other than the recent album he dropped, which I admit is real hot -- hasn't been on point in years. Even still his charisma and swag has faded since his prime in the 90's. But yo, you challenge me to find something you think is real hard for me to find? Shows what you know, huh? On The Watcher 2, Jay-Z had the best verse on the track and he was pitched against Rakim:

Things just ain't the same for gangsters
But I'm a little too famous to shoot these pranksters
All of these rap singers claimin they bangers
Doin all sorts of twisted shit with they fingers
Disrespectin the game, no home trainin or manners
I was doin this shit when you was shittin Pampers
I was movin them grams 'fore you, knew what a hand that hand was
Duckin the vans, radars, the scanners
'Fore you knew what hard white to tame was
I was hittin the turnpike, aight with the bammers
I was nice with my hands, cuss aight with them hammers
I was prickin my finger 'fore you knew what a Fam was
I had it laid out 'fore you knew what a plan was
Three hundred mill' later, now you understand us
Y'all ain't see us comin through Vegas
You ever seen so much cham' bust in one night
Grand fucked up one fight
I was on the Peter Pan bus
You was Peter Pan up in your room, y'all fuckin with whom?
Allowed me to be taught
You cowards is just now learnin the shit that we talk
You niggaz ain't know about a Robb Report
Bout a high speed Porsche, i.e.
You niggaz ain't know how to floss 'til I came through the door
like "Eric B. for Pres," respect me in this BITCH!
You can't disrespect us cause you got a little check cut
You was suckin for so long, fuckin your little neck up
Now you too big for your britches, you got a few little bitches
You think you Hugh Hefner, you just ridiculous
I blew breath for you midgets, I gave life to the game
It's only right I got the right to be king
Niggaz that got life really like what I sing
Cause they know is he really like, niggaz feel my pain
Know the shit I DON'T write be the illest shit that's ever been recited
in the game word to the hyphen in my NAME!
J, A, Y, DASH, Hoffa
The past present nigga the future, proper
The holy trinity of hip-hop is us
We give, Dre his props BUT that's where it stops
It's the Roc

Dead Presidents from Reasonable Doubt, slick narrative:

Ahh, who wanna bet us that we don't touch leathers
Stack cheddars forever, live treacherous all the et ceteras
To the death of us, me and my confidants, we shine
You feel the ambiance, y'all niggaz just rhyme
By the ounce dough accumulates like snow
We don't just shine, we illuminate the whole show; you feel me?
Factions from the other side would love to kill me
Spill three quarts of my blood into the street, let alone the heat
Fuck em, we hate a nigga lovin this life
In all possible ways, know the Feds is buggin my life
Hospital days, reflectin when my man laid up
On the Uptown high block he got his side sprayed up
I saw his life slippin, this is a minor set back
Yo, still in all we livin, just dream about the get back
That made him smile though his eyes said, "Pray for me"
I'll do you one better and slay these niggaz faithfully
Murder is a tough thing to digest, it's a slow process
and I ain't got nothin but time
I had near brushes, not to mention three shots
close range, never touched me, divine intervention
Can't stop I, from drinkin Mai-Tai's, with Ta Ta
Down in Nevada, ha ha, Poppa, word life
I dabbled in crazy weight without rap, I was crazy straight
Potnah, I'm still spendin money from eighty-eight... what?

quote:

Are you saying that Jay-Z is the only artist who can remember the songs he's written? GOOD GRAVY! I WAS WRONG! JAY-Z IS AWESOME!

Yeah. Especially in Fade to Black where he's eight albums deep. I've seen top dogs perform and they lose themselves and fade to the beat and point the mic in the direction of the audience so they can do it for them. The point is Jay-Z has the best on-stage performance of any rapper, dead or alive.

This is the best live thread on m/c!

I'm finding this debate very illuminating!