Can someone please tell this fool to stop trying to rap? He's always been a posier, he always will be.

You seriously need an education in music, kid. Now, when it comes to Jay-Z, I really dislike most of his music and wouldn't put him anywhere near my "top ten rapper alive," but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate his place in the scene and he doesn't have talent. Listen to his new album, there is a link to where it's streaming in the Hip Hop 07, thread. First off, the man got in a feud with Nas, anybody who's good enough to be named in the same sentence with Nas is damn good. (As an aside his new album has a dope song featuring Nas) When it comes to swagger, Jay-Z is probably the definition of it. He can be annoying often, I find, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have talent. He's been a pretty prolific artist, his releases are now in the double digits, but he doesn't seem to have run out of material. I actually just turned his new album on, it's pretty good actually, I've had a change of heart, the beats are all soulful and his flow seems pretty spot on.

I feel really weird defending Jay-Z, but you've forced me to do it...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike ::
You seriously need an education in music, kid.

Gee, thanks for the advice. I'll get right on that. I mean, if I think that Jay Z is a posier, I know nothing about music. That's makes sense...not. By that logic, if I think that Britney Spears sucks, I must be an expert on music.

I stand by my post. Jay Z ain't shit. He's what's wrong with rap. Guys like him are out of touch with with the real world, he lives in a plush ivory tower. What the hell does he know about what's going on on the streets? Nothing. So when he raps, he's full of shit. He's got nothin' to say. He's all image, nothing more.

What's a "posier" anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by EricG75:
What's a "posier" anyway?

It's the same as 'poser'. But I spell it 'posier' because I like to be different.

Well, it's good to see you've started making up your own language. That'll come in handy if you're ever elected Supreme Chancellor.

I geniunely cannot believe that you have me defending Jay-Z, of all people. You may not like him, fine, I don't think he is anything particularly special myself. I'm not the hugest fan of Elvis, but I respect his contribution to music, and enjoy a tune every now and then. The only valid claims you've made against Jay-Z, seems to be directed against his 'street credentials' which is probably one of the more silly arguments you could make. It's all about the music, I don't care if Jay-Z is still selling coke out of the trunk of his car, although I hope that he doesn't, all I care about is if he has talent, which he clearly does. Granted, a large majority of his singles are horrid, to say the least, if you get into the bulk of his albums and consider the historical aspect of his career, you have to show respect.

As a side note, have you heard his new album?

quote:

Originally posted by hudson:
Jay Z ain't shit...he lives in a plush ivory tower.

Jay-Z's house.

quote:

Originally posted by Open Mike:
The only valid claims you've made against Jay-Z, seems to be directed against his 'street credentials' which is probably one of the more silly arguments you could make. It's all about the music, I don't care if Jay-Z is still selling coke out of the trunk of his car, although I hope that he doesn't, all I care about is if he has talent, which he clearly does.

I disagree with the premise of this statement. Imo, talent means nothing if you have no character. The problem with Jay Z is the same problem most of the hip hop fools have nowadays. Maybe they can rap, maybe they're smooth, maybe they can even lay down some sick beats, but if they dont' have anything half way intelligent or relevant to say, I'm not interested.

Jay Z, luda, lil john, nelly, p diddy, all those MTV sellouts are the same to me. Sure they can generate income, but they just don't have anything to say. They're the metallica of the rap world. They're in it for the money, and that's shouldn't be the motivation for creating art.

Guys like Lupe Fiasco, Ghostface, Common, the Roots. Those guys are the real deal.

To say that Jay-Z is what's wrong with rap, my man hudson, you're ignorant, homie. You're one of those folks that I witness pretending they know what they're talking about when they really don't know shit. Wanna know why? Let me have a second with you...

Let's put the state of hip hop in perspective... I mean, what really ruined it? It's understandable that a lot of purists would lay blame to dope boy music. The talentless like Young Jeezy and Rick Ross saturate the charts with records about nothing but hustlin', and niggas could easily point the finger at Hov for pioneering this shit. But c'mon, is it really a question of credibility? For the record, I believe this nigga really ran the street, but whether or not that's a fact really doesn't affect my opinion of him as an emcee. And even then, his hustler spirit has dimmed down in recent years until his latest release. From The Blueprint to Kingdom Come he's maintained a more "executive" sound that parallels his success as a businessman... so what's "posier" about that?

A lot of "rap fans" (notice the quotes, like you right?) discredit Jay because of his obvious commercial sound and fail to read between the lines. Have you ever noticed that he's got some of the sickest metaphors and flows recorded in rap history? So-called hip hop purists would hear a top production in the background and spit in the direction of the woofer. I can't see how anyone can be a fan of the late Mr. Wallace and be able to knock the hustle of Mr. Carter.

"A thing of beauty, watch me, body crazy/tits Firm like Nature, Foxy, Nas and AZ"

"I rhyme sicker than every rhyme spitter/every crime nigga that rhyme or touch a mic because my mind's quicker."

The average ignorant consumer of music assumes that rap is just about putting words together and making it sound "nice." There's delivery, swag, charisma, energy, and if Biggie put it down in aces then Hov's got kings. And there's never a need to go "conscious" to be sick on the mic. Just because Talib is hot about putting out a legitimate message doesn't mean he can lay down a punch line with the same effect as Jay-Z. If anything, Jay-Z is saving the mainstream side of hip hop.

Speaking of which, I'm gonna address again what you said about Jay-Z being what's wrong with rap. Three simple words: Are. You. Serious? If you really think you're a sharp observer of the industry then you've gotta get ya mind right, son. The problem is top dogs signing artist who've got nothing to offer. What we have getting spins are hot beats with lyrics playing second string. It's ridiculous. Faggots like Hurricane Chris and Soulja Boy are climbing the charts like an escalator when the powers that be can really change the direction of hip hop to something like how it used to be in the 90s.

First off, Frame, I hope you're African American because if not, I don't think it's appropriate that you use the "n" word. I don't care how 'down' you think you are.

Second, I've never like Jay z's music. It's boring and overrated, imo. I think his lyrics are lame, annoying and pretentious.

I mean come on, you've got to be blind if you don't see that this guy's hype is fabricated by himself and his massive power and influence in the rap world. He's got every white boy out there buying his albums because they all think he's a legend, he's the real deal.

He's the greatest rapper of all time, because that's the image that he's sold to the public. He's the best publicist i've ever seen.

quote:

Originally posted by hudson:
First off, Frame, I hope you're African American because if not, I don't think it's appropriate that you use the "n" word. I don't care how 'down' you think you are.

Second, I've never like Jay z's music. It's boring and overrated, imo. I think his lyrics are lame, annoying and pretentious.

I mean come on, you've got to be blind if you don't see that this guy's hype is fabricated by himself and his massive power and influence in the rap world. He's got every white boy out there buying his albums because they all think he's a legend, he's the real deal.

He's the greatest rapper of all time, because that's the image that he's sold to the public. He's the best publicist i've ever seen.

Why would you assume that I'm not black? Not that it's any of your business, but yes, I am.

And you didn't even address anything in my post. Then you go off to claim that Jay-Z's fanbase consist of mostly whites? Why? He's considered one of the greatest emcees because his talent speaks for itself. The problem with people like you -- as I've mentioned -- is that you take the lyrics for granted when you hear a commercial production coming out your speaker. So I'm blind because supposedly Hov is all hype? If he was nothing but a ridiculous million dollar production pusher then he'd have been forgotten as merely Jaz-O's protege from the getgo. Homie, don't ignore the message that I pointed to your direction; reply to me with something real.

And to even put Jay-Z and Luda in the same sentence as Nelly and Diddy, is just... wow. It just goes to show that you really know nothing. Furthermore, pitching Ghostface in the midst of the conscious rappers you've mentioned confuses the hell out of me. If talent means nothing with no character -- like you put it -- then how is Ironman any different than Jigga? He's a damn good lyricist but as far as subject matter is concerned he's had his share of the dopeboy music. Hell, his first 2006 album was titled after cocaine. So, you believe Ghostface Killah but you don't believe Jay-Z?

Look man, I respect your opinion. So you don't like Jay-Z, that's straight. But you come rushing in saying he's got no lyrical ability when he spits it harder than most of these clown ass niggas in and out of the mainstream. That tells me that you're the type to keep your "taste" towards the underground because you like to stray far from "what's poppin'" even though talent exists on both ends.

quote:

Originally posted by Frame:
Why would you assume that I'm not black? Not that it's any of your business, but yes, I am.

Because hudson believes that every single kid on this board who contributes anything to the hiphop forums is a white kid tryina be down, which, for him, is considered an atrocity. Why? I have no freakin' clue.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Recluse:

quote:

Originally posted by Frame:
Why would you assume that I'm not black? Not that it's any of your business, but yes, I am.

Because hudson believes that every single kid on this board who contributes anything to the hiphop forums is a white kid tryina be down, which, for him, is considered an atrocity. Why? I have no freakin' clue.

I'm down

But seriously, I agree with everything that Frame said. Generally, I keep my head underground, but that doesn't mean I can't respect the good lyricists that are above it. In fact, I listen to a lot of mainstream stuff, but generally keep myself away from club bangers and the like.

Now we have to ask ourselves what ruined the mainstream. It's clear that in the eighties and for most of the nineties, the mainstream had a lot of quality to offer. Generally, with discussions like this, a specific region is mentioned, dirty south, new york, even the west coast, but I think something happened elsewhere in music that turned hip hop into hip pop. It seems that all of the mainstream acts that blow (and blow hard) are just pop artists diguised as rappers. Maybe the success of pop music, combined with the corporate mindset of the music industry and the concept of 'lowest common denominator' music did it.

When is comes to mainstream rap, I must say I look at the work as the creation of the producer and not actually of the rap artist. Most people who are the ones digging these tracks are because of the "beats".

Granted it's easy to say Jay-Z as a rapper isn't that talented. But then you remember he probably has control of every aspect of a song and has some real skill in the industry whether it pertains to rapping or producing. Jay-Z has set up an impressive roster on his label (West, Sigel, Freeway).

For me the real problem with rap is by the name of 50 Cent and Shady Records post Eminem days. They ruined mainstream rap for me. When 50 cent was doing his "I got nine times" thing, spawned man other terrible hip "pop" acts.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Recluse:

quote:

Originally posted by Frame:
Why would you assume that I'm not black? Not that it's any of your business, but yes, I am.

Because hudson believes that every single kid on this board who contributes anything to the hiphop forums is a white kid tryina be down, which, for him, is considered an atrocity. Why? I have no freakin' clue.

Hey Carlito’s Way, havent seen you in a long time. How have you been? I hope you are looking to post more often.

I think that Hudson likes to cause arguments and likes to ruffle people’s feathers. I agree with frame when he mentioned that there is quality music both in the indie/underground level and the mainstream level. And Jay-Z isn’t popular because “White kids” don’t know any better but simply because he is a good MC that knows how to rap and has some pretty great beats. He has at least two or three “classic” albums and is a worthy rapper.

By the way, the new one is solid and it is streaming here.

Hey FKA... I've been good, how are you doing? I hope everything's aiight with you.. and by the way, congrats on being a new Forum Mod

Lately there's just been a lot of things going on in my life and I've been trying to keep a healthy balance among them all. I don't think I can post with the same frequency I did in the past, but I do pop in every once in a while to catch up on what's new and have some chat with you and the other folks.

Take care man and I'll see you around.

hey hudson is that pronounced POSE-EE-AY or POSE-EE-ER?, 'cos if its the first you're French and wrong and if its the latter you're just wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by juanboy:
hey hudson is that pronounced POSE-EE-AY or POSE-EE-ER?, 'cos if its the first you're French and wrong and if its the latter you're just wrong.

ookay. I won't ask you to elaborate, cause I really dont' care. If you like Jay-z, that's fine by me. He annoys the ever loving crap out of me. I've seen him interviewed a few times recently. He sounded like a fake moron. What do you expect, he sold out years ago. As i've said before, he has nothing to say that I want to hear. He's just a ceo faking it, trying to show people that he's the same homey that made 'reasonable doubt'(which btw, is the only album he ever recorded that's worth a damn).

Are you asking me to elaborate? Because I've maintained a firm stance with plenty of detail for you to respond against. You keep dodging the subject like you're afraid of an intelligent discussion. So it's Jay-Z that has nothing to say? I think it's you. You're the one that started this thread and you can't even describe your passionate hate for Jigga. Give me an example of a verse from Ghostface and Common that's real ill because to be honest I really think you don't listen. Not that these emcees aren't worthy of a mad flow but I just get this vibe from you that you're the type to speak on other than-mainstream artists to make people think you're a knowledgeable listener and fan of hip hop when you're really a "posier." Bada-bing.

And I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say that you're from the burbs. I'll tell you this: no matter how much money you get, no matter where you move to, you cannot rid yourself of a hood mentality. It doesn't make you a bad person but you'll never forget that you started at the bottom. To say that Hov is "faking it?" Faking what? Elaborate. Because he speaks on his status as a CEO in his rhymes and intricately describes that it's no different than the hustle. Real talk. "Selling out?" That's a joke. In the Bad Boy vs. Death Row era Jigga even recorded a song with B.I.G. where he says he'll be 'multi before he dies.' He never sold out. He just had his priorities straight.

As for his albums' worth... wow. So you're telling me Bulletproof Wallets is better than The Blueprint? That's funny. Reasonable Doubt may well have been his magnum opus but Mr. Sean Carter is one of the most consistent artists in the history of hip hop. Your problem is that you only listen to his singles. While I don't agree he's the best rapper alive, his consistency in quality overthrows that of Nas (Nastradamus, Street's Disciple) and Mos Def (The New Danger, True Magic), both overall more talented emcees yet cannot maintain unwavering quality in their releases.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frame,