Several members have expressed in interest in classical music, but are curious where to begin, so I figure we might kick off this new corner of the forums with some talk of the essential classical library, the canon.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler:
If I were to "legally obtain" a piece by Bach, which would you recommend? I really have no idea what his more famous works are.

Yeah, J.S. Bach's a great place to start, T.

We know Bach today as a composer, but in his lifetime he was reknown as a great keyboardist (harpsichord and organ). The amount of keyboard works that survive to this day are enormous and intimidating. Personally, I like to recommend starting with a late work, The Goldberg Variations. As the name suggests, it's made up of a single music theme, which Bach then explores in 30 different ways. If you're "legally obtaining" a copy, you may not have much choice in which performer's recording you get(and performers and performance is very important in classical music). If you can track down Murray Periahia's version on Sony Classical, I think it's a good choice. You're also likely to hear the name Glenn Gould a great deal. He's more than worth a topic of his own and he performed the work twice, early and late in his career. Gould was and remains controversial and his performances are unconventional. They're collected in a three-CD set titled A Sense of Wonder, which is one of my three favorite CDs of all time. Understand, though, that when you hear his performances you're hearing as much Gould as Bach and that's not always the case with other performers.

Of Bach's works for ensembles, I think The Brandenburg Concertos are your best place to start. As I mentioned before, Bach was known in his lifetime for his genius at the keyboard and I've wondered if anybody who heard (or performed) these works in their time understood how rich and complex the arrangements were, how nuanced the solos. Sometimes Bach is accused of being too mathematical in his approach to music. The six Brandenburg Concertos reveal a great sense of humor and happiness. Again, you may not have a choice in performers, but I'm partial to Trevor Pinnock leading the English Concert.

Oh, and if I'm going to talk about Bach as a passionate, emotional composer, I have to plug the Concerto for Two Violins in d. The second movement is breathtakingly beautiful. It was one of a select few pieces of music I was insistent at having played during my wedding ceremony.

I've tried not to be too pedantic here, T., but please let me know if you have any further questions. As is probably clear, I love the subject and am always happy when people want to explore the classical canon.

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I think The Brandenburg Concertos are your best place to start.

Man I love these. My parents used to play these for my sister and I all the time when we were kids, and I still listen to them to this day whenever I go home to my parents.

I'll jump on this one. Personally I don't care as much for music from the classical and baroque periods (Bach, Mozart, Handel), so I'll leave that area to someone else.

The romantic period and forward, specifically orchestral music, is really my cup of tea. Here is a short list of absolutely essential pieces. Any of these would serve as a good gateway into their composer's repertoire or the period of music they come from.


Romantic Period:

Beethoven - Symphony No. 5

Brahms - Symphony No. 2

Tchaikovsky - Symphony No. 4

Mahler - Symphony No. 9

Strauss (Richard) - Also Sprach Zarathustra

Berlioz - Symphonie Fantastique


The Impressionists:

Debussy - La Mer

Ravel - Daphne et Chloe Suites 1 and 2

Faure - Requiem


The 20th Century:

Copland - Appalachian Spring

Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring ("Le Sacre du Printemps")

Holst - The Planets

Barber - Adagio for Strings


This list could be much, much longer, but any of these pieces would be a great place to start.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Commontone,

quote:

Originally posted by LinnTate:
You're also likely to hear the name Glenn Gould a great deal. He's more than worth a topic of his own and he performed the work twice, early and late in his career. Gould was and remains controversial and his performances are unconventional. They're collected in a three-CD set titled A Sense of Wonder, which is one of my three favorite CDs of all time. Understand, though, that when you hear his performances you're hearing as much Gould as Bach and that's not always the case with other performers.

I like Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations as well. I think it's probably one of the pieces that really made me appreciate classical music. Amazing piano playing.

I'm also a fan of Bach's Solo Cello Suites. Janos Starker and Yo-Yo Ma both have some excellent recordings of them.

quote:

I think The Brandenburg Concertos are your best place to start.

Actually, that does sound vaguely familiar, I think I was looking at it on Amazon once. I put complete faith in you, LT, for musical direction. Since you said it might be a little difficult to get specific compositions like that off of Soulseek, I probably could drop like, $8 for an album with that. I've noticed classical music cds are dirt cheap! It's crazy, but I suppose it makes sense. So, I will go out and buy those.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
I'm also a fan of Bach's Solo Cello Suites. Janos Starker and Yo-Yo Ma both have some excellent recordings of them.

Absolutley on both counts. I love the Solo Cello Suites and especially Janos Starker's Mercury Living Presence recording (432 756).

Several years ago, when I moved to Bloomington and was working for the public radio station, I was standing in our lobby when Starker walked it. I'll freely admit to being completely starstruck. I've spent a very little bit of time at a public event with he and his wife since that day, which was a treat as well.

You're a big cello fan, aren't you, e.? Have you ever heard Aldo Parisot's ensemble the Yale Cellos?

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Originally posted by LinnTate:
You're a big cello fan, aren't you, e.?

My mom's bf of 14 years is a cellist in the local symphony orchestra, so I hear a lot of cello. I also did some recordings of him on a couple of the Bach cello suites.

Some personal favorites of mine:


Stravinsky - Rite of Spring
Erik Satie - Gymnopedies
Steve Reich - Music For 18 Musicians
Glenn Branca - Lesson 1
Arvo Part - pretty much anything, his choral works are very nice and there was a nice collection that came out last year called "A Portrait" which I have seen done for several other composers as well
Bach - Well Tempered Clavier
Terry Riley - In C and A Rainbow in Curved Air
La Monte Young - Dreamhouse
John Cage - any of his prepared piano works

I could go on but I just listed a few things that I hadn't seen yet. I'm not really into most symphonic works, generally preferring the smaller ensembles playing piano works or strings. I don't totally dislike symphonic music, it just isn't my preference. I like most of the early electronic/minimalist composers of the twentieth century the such as Edgard Varese, Pauline Oliveros, Tony Conrad, La Monte Young, and Terry Riley. I'm pretty open to most stuff as long as it isn't something like Copland, Gershwin, or Arthur Fiddler....

What's wrong with Copland and Gershwin JB?

I don't think Copland or Gershwin are bad composers or anything like that, it just isn't my personal preference. I think it has to do (at least for Copland) with living in Tennessee and having to hear Appalachian Spring so many times.

I was a bit taken aback with the Copland and Gershwin comment, jb, but I can sure understand where you're coming from. I can happily talk about why Ottorino Respighi is a perfectly splendid composer, I just don't like his works. Given that he's something of a staple of classical music radio, I've had to listen to his best-known compositions a lot and these days they tend to make the hair on the back of my neck rise in a way that is not good.

If you ever decide you want to try to take a stab at overcoming the musical injustice your regional affiliation has committed against you, try the original arrangement of Appalacian Spring Copland wrote for Martha Graham. It's for thirteen instruments and leans much more heavily on piano. I can't think of a time when I would turn to the full orchestration over the smaller ensemble and given your preference for the latter and for piano, you might like it. The Pacific Symphony Orchestra led by Keith Clark recorded it in the 80s for Reference (RR-22CD), but I don't know if it's still in print and I figure you can check just as easily at the store.

Oh, and speaking of piano, have you ever checked out Conlon Nancarrow who we name checked in the avant garde thread? That's some piano music that will raise your eybrows, especially if you like Bach.

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I will definitely keep that in mind. Sometimes hearing works in a new light can change your mind about them. I didn't really like Rite of Spring at first, but then I heard a piano version for four hands that was awesome. From there I worked backwards and now enjoy the piece completely.

I remember you mentioning Nancarrow in the other thread. We didn't have any of it at work so I was wondering if you could recommend something specific to order for myself. I love Bach by the way.

Well, bollocks! I was just glancing through a few online stores and can't find a copy of some of the collection of Conlon Nancarrow I have anywhere. I'll keep checking.

In the meantime, see if you can track down a copy of the CD Sound Forms for Piano on New World Records (80203). Nancarrow was best known for writing studies in counterpoint that were so complex that he punched them onto rolls for player piano rather than notating them traditionally, though he went back and did that later, too. This was at a time when that was pretty much the technology available to him. This CD features three of those Studies for Player Piano recorded in Nancarrow's home in Mexico City (there's a big story in and of itself!) in 1973 on one of his own player pianos.

Incidentally, the CD also features pretty great performances of works by Henry Cowell, John Cage, and Ben Johnson, so it's a pretty splendid overview of 20th Century piano works, which I guess fits the topic of the thread pretty nicely.

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Check out this recording of the original "Appalachian Spring" arrangement, by the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra. The disc also has a fantastic version of "Quiet City," probably my favorite piece by Copland.

quote:

Originally posted by Commontone:
Romantic Period:
Beethoven - Symphony No. 5

I would strongly argue that Beethoven belongs in the transition period between the Classical and Romantic eras. Being the prevalent dignitary during a time when Mozart and Haydn had already passed away, he fueled the birth of Romanticism, influencing Romantic radicals like Wagner and more conservative composers like Brahms who retained a Classical style of form within his works. Beethoven was only 20 when Mozart passed away and wrote music that really can’t be classified as Classical or Romantic.

For people that are being weaned onto Classical (the general term, not the term used to describe the era that Mozart and Haydn composed) music it really is hard to pin-point works that are “significant” to listen to. Everything is relative and subjective towards one’s personal taste. In my eyes, Bach didn’t write any bad music—at all. He is not only the most important figure in music but one of the most important figures of all time. He was an exceptional organist but anything by him is good to pick up; whether it be one of his many “Prelude and Fugues”—he is the creator of imitative counterpoint so hearing one of his fugues can do no harm—any suites, any partitas, any of his concertos, he also wrote two beautiful passions, the well-known Well-tempered Clavier or one his Orchestral Suites (which I am personally biased towards.) In other words, you can’t go wrong with anything you pick up by Bach.

Mozart may be the “second-best” composer of all time and his importance may be just as significant as that of Bach’s. He lived such a short life, dying before his 36th birthday, but was able to write 41 symphonies and a number of piano concertos, string quartets and operas. He is not only the most important Classical composer but one of the most important composers of all time.

That’s just my two favorites but you can also check out any of Haydn’s symphonies (he wrote more than 100 so there is a lot to choose from) to see the basic form to a symphony in the classical era as well as sonata form. From romanticism, if you are going to narrow it down you have to hear something by Wagner and something by Brahms to get both sides of the spectrum and you have to hear something by Schubert, Shumann R., Liszt, Tchaikovsky and Chopin. For Impressionism you can’t go wrong with Debussy or Ravel and as for 20th century composers you can’t go wrong with anything from Bartók, Stravinsky, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, or even Mussorgsky. And if you are feeling crazy check out something by the so-called “Second Viennese School” from either Alban Berg, Arnold Schoenberg, or Anton Webern. Enjoy!

The aforementioned is not even including “band” music which is another animal in its own.

I agree that Beethoven helped bridge the gap between Classicism and Romanticism, and can't accurately be said to belong to either.

His 3rd Symphony ("Eroica"), however, is usually labeled as the "birth" of Romanticism in classical music. It's a pretty arbitrary designation, really -- there are other works by other composers (Schubert especially) that could fit that bill, depending on the criteria. But according to the textbooks, anything Beethoven composed from that point on is considered Romantic, for what it's worth.

"Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta" by Bartok is a great one...it was used prominently in Kubrick's "The Shining."

Also, Berg's "Three Orchestral Pieces" is a pretty non-threatening introduction to atonal music. Much of it doesn't sound any weirder than Stravinsky's major works...some parts are incredibly beautiful, especially considering there's no key.

Brahms "Mass..." awesome music.

Give Smetana a try. There is some quiet passion there. He died penniless and what a pity that is.

Frank Martin - "Messe". For double choir. This is just amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by rockthief:
Give Smetana a try. There is some quiet passion there. He died penniless and what a pity that is.

The only one I'm familiar with is "The Moldau," which is great. Could you recommend something else by him?