So we all know that the best music is found by relentless searching through mags, blogs, music sites, and underground stations. But what if you were forced to listen to your city's #1 radio station 24/7 ? (College stations not included) Where did the masses show a bit of taste?

Gorrilaz - Demon Days. Not my favorite album, but a good and interesting one, and I can't believe it went top 10 on the US charts while Blur are still "that whoo hoo band."

Mars Volta - Frances The Mute. Never thought I'd see a band this challenging get played on KROQ here in LA. I was wrong.

Kanye West - Late Registration.

Beck - Guero.

I hope you didn't mean a new act who broke through to the mainstream this year. I wasn't sure. If so, just, um, disregard all the bands I just listed.

quote:

Where did the masses show a bit of taste?

I'd say The White Stripes. Though I don't think "Get Behind Me Satan" was their best album by a longshot, "My Doorbell" is pretty refreshing when heard next to Green Day and Nickelback songs.

I'd also add Coldplay to the list. I know X&Y wasn't all that great of an album. But with "Speed of Sound" and "Fix You", they managed to sneek some pretty great songs into mass market radio.

I don't think I know more than the masses do. I have a different philosophy than many here - you like what you like. I do love the White Stripes and Coldplay. I think that surprisingly, Carrie Underwood made a solid album. Madonna has been great as usual. Faith Hill's album's solid. Also: System Of A Down, Anthony Hamilton, Brad Paisley, Shyeryl Crow, and more.

As "mainstream" as Kanye West has become--no one even knew he had been producing forever--the masses do pay attention to him and his music is brilliant. "Demon Days," "Get Behind Me Satan" and the two System of a Down albums were played by the masses also. Though these are not the best albums, these are stellar albums that are on many, including mine, year-end lists.

I would offer Death Cab's "Soul Meets Body" and Kelly Clarkson's "Since You've Been Gone" as two of the best mainstream pop radio singles of 2005.

Franz Ferdinand's "Do You Want To" got some top 40 play as well, I think...

I love "Since U Been Gone" - most of Breakaway isn't THAT good, but it is a good mainstream album IMO.

Also like "Do You Want To" a lot.

And Saving Jane, who is great, is getting some airplay with "Girl Next Door."

I gotta give it to mattD: I can't believe the kind of people that usually post here...or any forum, for that matter. You seem to live in front of the computer, and for some unknown reason, you think you are better than "the masses" ha...that's so condescendent and just plain wrong. People, I don't have to go bragging around 'bout my music or film tastes just to prove my supposed superiority...cause it doesn't exist, ok? You are not better than some teenage girl who likes simple plan...life's about diversity...we like a music, some like another, that's not reason enough to place yourselves on top of anyone...ok? as for the post,this year i loved franz ferdinand, coldplay, fiona apple, shakira's album is pretty solid, madonna was great..hung up is amazing! gorillaz was pretty decent...and i wanna oficially state this: I hate M.I.A's Arular...it's not new, it's not fresh, heard it a thousand times...and her voice annoys me sooo much...thank u...bye

Yes, music fans can definitely be indie snobs, and this thread is perhaps leaning in that direction. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't such a thing as an informed opinion. A teenage girl who listens to Simple Plan probably doesn't listen to very much music, or to a broad array of genres, or to music from before she was born. She also most likely doesn't read about music or study music. Someone who does these things has a more informed opinion - they are able to more clearly discern that Simple Plan's lyrics are full of cliches, because they've heard those lyrics hundreds of times before, on other records that the teenager hasn't heard. Likewise, someone with a more informed opinion recognizes the pop-punk bands that influence Simple Plan, and is a better judge of how the band either synthesizes of plagarizes said influences. This is why we have critics in art - to give us an informed opinion. A more informed opinon than the masses. Sometimes, this leads to snobbery. But to say that everyone's opinion on art is equally worthy is overly simplistic and basically, just not true.

But that doesn't mean that the teenager will stop listening to Simple Plan just because he/she hears more music. I know that since I've diversified my listening, there aren't very many mainstream artists that I've abandoned. So her opinion might still be valid - just encourage her to delve into the music world and find out what it offers. I know that I disagree with critics about 50% of the time (no less than I disagree with the masses,) so I don't see them very highly. I mostly use critics to find about about new discoveries. Professional music critics often annoy me. Even a lyric like Simple Plan's can be subjective - you never know what will speak to you.

Hi, Anderton - hope you stay here!

Look, if you guys are going to say that the masses' musical tastes are just as good as the snobs' or the critics', then you're wrong. That's not saying that Shakira isn't any good, just that she's not as good as her chart numbers would indicate if everyone heard the same thing. We hear the masses' music via MTV/radio (though I usually try to avoid it, because popular rock music right now is unbearable, while popular hip-hop is mostly a sad joke) while the masses hear little to no indie music. You're right about Arular though; if you want poppy dance music, the pop charts probably are the right place to go (I do hear "Galang" probably more than any other song though because of the Civic commercial that airs nonstop).

Back to the original topic: I hear MMJ's "Off the Record" on the radio constantly, which I think is sweet because I had that album #1.

It's not wrong to say the masses' opinion is just as valid. Sometimes the masses are right, and sometimes the critics/indie snobs are right. I don't buy into your argument about Shakira. I'm proud of all of what I like. Including some of the popular rock out there. Now Nickelback and Creed are pretty bad, but that's not all that's on the radio.

One thing I'd like to point out: I read Pitchfork the most out of all the critic sites, and they do give mainstream music a fair shake. People just think they don't, but that's because mainstream albums are a tiny percentage of all the albums within their scope. They even give a lot of these albums good reviews, but they're not afraid to call out an album if they think it's boring or derivative or a retread or just bad.

Shakira's music is pretty good, but trust me, she would not have nearly as much success without MTV showing her videos (which I enjoy, whenever I can find a video on MTV). She's a bad example for the "mainstream sucks" argument, because she has some good songs and an interesting voice. Ashlee Simpson has probably sold more records than the Super Furry Animals ever will, and that is where we snobs have a problem. The masses are very often wrong, whereas critics are not "wrong," their opinions simply differ from our own. (On the other hand, I'll watch TRL before I try to like Deerhoof again; TRL is funny at least)

You're welcome to like whatever you want though, as taste is personal. Except for Ashlee Simpson, Nickelback, and any Fred Durst incarnation. In those cases, I think we can and should legislate taste.

Also, there is such a thing as bad lyrics, just like there is bad poetry and bad fiction. There's a reason you've read tons of Shakespeare and nothing by his contemporary Ben Johnson. Or plenty of Hemingway but very little Danielle Steele (at least in school).

Well, Pitchfork does some mainstream albums, but I disagree with their take on many of them. How much I like the top 40 varies at any given moment, so I have to give the masses more than a little credit. And critics are off the mark quite often in my view at least. As far as lyrics, I've actually liked some sappy lyrics that some would consider bad. Sappy can be seen as sincere, depending on who's looking at it. So it's still subjective. But I'll agree that there are lyrics that are bad.

I'm taking a break from these forums after this post.

See ya later, Alligator!

You said it, Mark F.

quote:

Originally posted by dubs:
One thing I'd like to point out: I read Pitchfork the most out of all the critic sites, and they do give mainstream music a fair shake. People just think they don't, but that's because mainstream albums are a tiny percentage of all the albums within their scope. They even give a lot of these albums good reviews, but they're not afraid to call out an album if they think it's boring or derivative or a retread or just bad.

Shakira's music is pretty good, but trust me, she would not have nearly as much success without MTV showing her videos (which I enjoy, whenever I can find a video on MTV). She's a bad example for the "mainstream sucks" argument, because she has some good songs and an interesting voice. Ashlee Simpson has probably sold more records than the Super Furry Animals ever will, and that is where we snobs have a problem. The masses are very often wrong, whereas critics are not "wrong," their opinions simply differ from our own. (On the other hand, I'll watch TRL before I try to like Deerhoof again; TRL is funny at least)

You're welcome to like whatever you want though, as taste is personal. Except for Ashlee Simpson, Nickelback, and any Fred Durst incarnation. In those cases, I think we can and should legislate taste.

Also, there is such a thing as bad lyrics, just like there is bad poetry and bad fiction. There's a reason you've read tons of Shakespeare and nothing by his contemporary Ben Johnson. Or plenty of Hemingway but very little Danielle Steele (at least in school).

I agree with everything you just said (except about Shakira - although, due to my general avoidance of mainstream radio, I haven't heard anything from her since that big hit single ages ago - and Deerhoof). You are now officially cool.

I'll mention Antony and the Johnsons. I am a Bird Now took him from being a nobody to being mainstream enough to win a Mercury Prize, and it's a pretty great album.

quote:

Originally posted by Biggles:

I'll mention Antony and the Johnsons. I am a Bird Now took him from being a nobody to being mainstream enough to win a Mercury Prize, and it's a pretty great album.

I think calling Antony mainstream is a stretch. If you look at the history of the Mercury Prize, many of the nominees are mainstream, but just about all the winners are still pretty indie. I don't think being nominated alongside mainstream artists, or winning the award necessarily makes Antony mainstream.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PRG,

lcd soundsystem ?

I had no idea that this message would invoke a debate over "good" vs. "bad" music, but it is nice to see healthy conversation about the topic. Although my message might have been a bit harsh and simplistic, I stand by my basic idea that most (not all) music on the radio is below par.

On "Superiority":

If someone believes they are a better person, more intelligent, etc.. because of their individual taste or knowledge on a particular subject, they are in need of a good shrink. Snobs exploit their knowledge at the expense of someone else. Critics use their knowledge of the field to give an assessment based on generally accepted criteria. There will always be a certain amount of subjectivity when one talks about the aesthetic as it is not quantifiable. There are many critically acclaimed pieces of music that I personally don't care for, just as there are some panned by critics that I actually enjoy.

It's About Access and Interest

I agree with the writer that mentioned how music is distributed to the people. The music industry is a business that needs to make money to survive. Larger record labels have a substantial amount of influence and control over the content of what is produced, distributed, and aired. The end effect is that often music is formulated to appeal to the largest demographic possible. This significantly retards innovation and creativity. Maybe instead of asking "Where did the masses show a bit of taste?", I should have asked "In what cases were the masses exposed to some "non-formulaic" and quality music?".

That still doesn't explain why Kelly Clarkson and Tim McGraw won Favorite Female and Male singer at the People's Choice Awards.

Psychologists chime in...