Listen to Sean Price's "Monkey Barz"....

Most of the songs are about violence, but with humorous overtones that make the whole album sound real ignorant....it's really quite genius, IMO.

Anyways, at that Tiny Mix Tapes site, I disagree with a lot of the hip-hop reviews....

But the reviews for Juggaknots - Clear Blue Skies and Masta Killa's - No Said Date are definitely on point. Clear Blue Skies is a classic.

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
Anyways, at that Tiny Mix Tapes site, I disagree with a lot of the hip-hop reviews....

Wolfman and chadwicked are good for hip-hop. They've got taste.

Maybe so, but I'm just not into the whole Sage Francis, MF Doom, Atmosphere, Aesop Rock stuff....

I don't really like whiny, offbeat hip-hop.

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
Maybe so, but I'm just not into the whole Sage Francis, MF Doom, Atmosphere, Aesop Rock stuff....

I don't really like whiny, offbeat hip-hop.

I agree. Hip-Hop is one area of music where I almost prefer the mainstream (Kanye, Jay-Z, Missy Elliot) to the underground (though MF Doom and Edan are alright).

Though The Massacre was a pretty mediocre album, I certainly don't think it was the worst. "Hate it or Love it" is a great song, even if it is more The Game than 50.

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
I don't really like whiny, offbeat hip-hop.

Neither do I. That's why I like Sage Francis, MF Doom, Atmosphere, Aesop Rock stuff.....you'll find they're far more poetic and creative than Jay-Z whining about the cops busting him every single record.

Jay-Z > All those guys combined

When I listen to hip-hop, I don't want poetry....if I wanted that, I'd go read a book of poems.

There's no way you can say that those cats aren't offbeat and whiny....just because they're being original does mean they are making good music. The two do not go hand in hand.

When I listen to hip-hop, I wanna hear hip-hop music....Sage Francis, I'm sorry....but that's not hip-hop music.

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
Jay-Z > All those guys combined

What...ever.

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
Blockhead's "Downtown Science" was the only hip-hop album on your list that I liked, and even that's not really hip-hop...

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
I'm just not into the whole Sage Francis, MF Doom, Atmosphere, Aesop Rock stuff....
I don't really like whiny, offbeat hip-hop.

Did you know Blockhead makes beats for Aesop Rock? Yeah...

Yep, already knew that....also drops beats for Cage and the rest of Def Jux

Blockhead makes quality beats that don't deserve Aesop Rock's voice rhymin' over 'em....my opinion anyway. That's why I love his instrumental albums. No whiny MC making zero sense (Aesop Rock) to ruin his amazing beats.

I don't know, 'Hard Knock Life' came off as awfully whiny to me.

But I'd take whiny over boasty any day. Mainstream hip-hop lyrics that aren't by Outkast seem to all be along the lines of "I'm really great. I'm really great. I'm really great. Man I rock." Missy Elliot's new CD has entire songs devoted exclusively to how great she is.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobthespirit:
I don't know, 'Hard Knock Life' came off as awfully whiny to me.

But I'd take whiny over boasty any day. Mainstream hip-hop lyrics that aren't by Outkast seem to all be along the lines of "I'm really great. I'm really great. I'm really great. Man I rock." Missy Elliot's new CD has entire songs devoted exclusively to how great she is.

I could probably write a thesis about how mainstream rap is ruining America. Glorification of violence doesn't bother me, because I don't think the average kid buys a gun when 50 raps about getting shot a bunch of times. What makes me sick is rapping about one's possessions. Every time I see a Navigator with chrome 24s parked outside a trailer housing six people, I become mad enough to kill Lil Jon. I don't demand that popular music feature an uplifting, positive message, but I would prefer that the message not be: "If you want to look cool, buy lots of shiny stuff you don't need and show it off."

I don't know enough about rap to know who started this, but I do recall a certain Mase/Puffy video being my first exposure. You know the one. I was probably 12 and I found this abhorrent. The practice is disgusting, and there are very few mainstream rappers who are innocent, including the critically acclaimed ones. That Americans gladly support this insipid, shallow, self-centered garbage (to the tune of dozens of multi-platinum records every year) embarrasses me.

quote:

Originally posted by dubs:
Every time I see a Navigator with chrome 24s parked outside a trailer housing six people, I become mad enough to kill Lil Jon. I don't demand that popular music feature an uplifting, positive message, but I would prefer that the message not be: "If you want to look cool, buy lots of shiny stuff you don't need and show it off."

I agree, when I see stuff like that it is a little rediculous, but I don't think the intended message of those types of songs is "buy lots of stuff". In their own way, they're trying to be role models to poor urban kids. I think Jay-Z's attitude is "I was a street thug selling crack to make a living...now I'm making music, I go to clubs, drink Cristal, date models, drive my Range Rover, etc." It's about success, not consumerism. At least that's my take on it.

And boasting has always been a part of hip-hop-- since Run-DMC crowned themselves the Kings of Rock back in the 80s.

If you don't like boasting/showing off/etc., then you shouldn't be listening to hip-hop. Period.

Hip-hop has been about boasting/having fun/showing off/partying since day 1....

From Run DMC to Rakim to Jay-Z, the legends started it....and it's a part of hip-hop, if you don't like it, maybe hip-hop isn't for you.

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
If you don't like boasting/showing off/etc., then you shouldn't be listening to hip-hop. Period.
Hip-hop has been about boasting/having fun/showing off/partying since day 1....
From Run DMC to Rakim to Jay-Z, the legends started it....and it's a part of hip-hop, if you don't like it, maybe hip-hop isn't for you.

Public Enemy, Black Sheep, Biz Markie, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, The Pharcyde, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Prince Paul, and all of those guys didn't START hip-hop to show off. If you think that's all hip-hop is about, you have no clue.

Prince Paul (from Aug. 2005's XLR8R): "People always point out the stuff I have done but I still don't feel like I have gotten that big break. Yeah I had a few records buzz up but I've never gotten to the point where I'm comfortable. I doubt I'll get to that point but, really, I'm not even close. Keeping it real doesn't concern me -what concerns me is that people freak out when they hear what I'm doing. I get criticized for that but I know hip-hop is not about wearing a bulletproof vest."

quote:

Originally posted by Filmore Holmes:

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
....and it's a part of hip-hop, if you don't like it, maybe hip-hop isn't for you.

Public Enemy, Black Sheep, Biz Markie, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, The Pharcyde, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Prince Paul, and all of those guys didn't START hip-hop to show off. If you think that's all hip-hop is about, you have no clue.

GZA said it was "part of hip-hop", not that that was all it was about. You pointed out some exceptions to the rule (all of whom are great), but GZA's right in that hip-hop started out with the bragging/partying lyrics. Go listen to "Rapper's Delight" by the Sugar Hill Gang. The bragging,etc. is a classic theme within hip-hop that got its roots in local MC battles.

Thanks, ericg....

That's pretty much what I was trying to say....

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:

I agree, when I see stuff like that it is a little rediculous, but I don't think the intended message of those types of songs is "buy lots of stuff". In their own way, they're trying to be role models to poor urban kids. I think Jay-Z's attitude is "I was a street thug selling crack to make a living...now I'm making music, I go to clubs, drink Cristal, date models, drive my Range Rover, etc." It's about success, not consumerism. At least that's my take on it.

And boasting has always been a part of hip-hop-- since Run-DMC crowned themselves the Kings of Rock back in the 80s.

I respect successful rappers for becoming in some way the best at what the do; at the very least, they've risen to the top and it's fine that they're rich. Nor do I have a problem with rappers boasting or arrogance in general, because this is funny (my favorite athletes are the Iversons and Chad Johnsons who are truly great and will tell you so). If they did simply encourage their fans to do whatever they could to be successful in life, then I would respect their message. But being successful and pouring Cristal on the ground in your video are not the same thing. Inspiring people who don't necessarily have a lot to waste money extravagantly on rims and jewelry is, in my mind, sickening. It's good to dream of being successful and working hard to one day achieve that goal, but I don't think the nation's youth should dream of being the next Eminem, Jay-Z, or LeBron so that they too may one day reveal the contents of their fridge (countless bottles of Dom P) on "Cribs."

Just because telling/showing everyone how rich you are is part of hip hop doesn't mean it's acceptable. The ethos of flagrantly rich=good is how we ended up a nation of Paris-worshippers.

quote:

Originally posted by dubs:
Just because telling/showing everyone how rich you are is part of hip hop doesn't mean it's acceptable. The ethos of flagrantly rich=good is how we ended up a nation of Paris-worshippers.

Well, you make some good points, but there's a difference between Jay-Z and Allen Iverson and Paris Hilton. The former are rich and famous because they have a marketable talent, and as far as I know didn't grow up rich. Paris Hilton on the other hand is famous because she's rich. That's far sadder.

quote:

Originally posted by GZAGenius1415:
That's pretty much what I was trying to say....

No, you said if you don't like bragging, stay away from hip-hop. I'm saying, it has nothing to do with what hip-hop really is. Listen to "The Message."

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:

quote:

Originally posted by dubs:
Just because telling/showing everyone how rich you are is part of hip hop doesn't mean it's acceptable. The ethos of flagrantly rich=good is how we ended up a nation of Paris-worshippers.

Well, you make some good points, but there's a difference between Jay-Z and Allen Iverson and Paris Hilton. The former are rich and famous because they have a marketable talent, and as far as I know didn't grow up rich. Paris Hilton on the other hand is famous because she's rich. That's far sadder.

Well, it's about equally as sad in the cases of people like 50 Cent, who spend so much time bragging, you don't even know if they have any abilities outside of that.