Ok this kinda pisses me off- the new star wars is IMO, a huge step up from the first two, but people still arent happy. C'mon be realistic, there's no way episode 3 could possibly be as good as episodes 4, 5, and 6. You can't have impossible expectations over it, but for what it was, i think it was a good movie. Hayden Christiansen's acting wasnt excellent, but it was better than in ep. 2, they got rid of jar jar binks, the last about 20 or 30 minutes were pretty good (although i dont know how Obi and Anakin werent even sweating flying over that lava), there were more yoda fights, and I liked the scenes where palpatine was turning evil. The movie wasn't great, but let's give george some credit for improving it.

I give him plenty of credit for making a very good entertainment. It also connects all the Star Wars movies, but you're missing the point why he can't get a break. He did what he wanted with HIS movies. He "ruined" people's dreams and lives by throwing extra F/X into his old movies and "raping" their content to make the greatest villain become a eunuch. I don't agree with that appraisal at all, but it's so ingrained in millions of people's minds, that that's the way it is whether it's a crock or not.

Here's why I don't give George credit for ROTS. Because I think this was really the crucial link in the story for most people. How could this promising young Jedi become the most evil tyrant in the galaxy? George's explanation? He had a couple bad dreams and was mad the Jedi Council wouldn't make him a master. I would've like to have seen a little more conflict within Anikin. If Lucas would've spent half the time on his script he spent on CGI effects, it might've been a decent movie.

I try to stay away from bad films so hopefully I missed the worst films of '05, but here's five I've seen that I thought were real stinkers:

Elizabethtown: I've written about this elsewhere, but this film is so bad it has a certain charm. A complete misfire from an otherwise good director, Cameron Crowe.

Palindromes: The latest from Todd Solondz was a complete misfire. I liked Solondz' previous two films, WELCOME TO THE DOLLHOUSE & HAPPINESS, but this one just exacerbated Solondz' misanthropy. Some stunt casting where he had different actresses -- nine of 'em I think -- of different ages and races playing the same actors. Jaw droppingly bad.

The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy: I just didn't get it I guess. This one was just dumb. Dreadful.

Serenity: Dumb, minor space western flick. What works on the little screen doesn't necessarily work on the big screen. Cardboard actors couldn't carry this stinker.

Fever Pitch. I couldn't stay away. I'm a BoSox fan. This one was way too broad for my tastes. I should have stayed away.

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Here's why I don't give George credit for ROTS. Because I think this was really the crucial link in the story for most people. How could this promising young Jedi become the most evil tyrant in the galaxy? George's explanation? He had a couple bad dreams and was mad the Jedi Council wouldn't make him a master.

Well, what did you expect? I think that is a believable reason. He lost his mother in ep. 2 and after all the pain he felt from that, he was willing to do anything to save padme's life. Also, he didn't go straight from being good to being darth vader. it started off small, but palpatine kept pressuring him and one thing led to another. eventually he was in so far, he couldn't turn back

I just have to step in here and interject for a moment…

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Originally posted by LordSmoogsbottomIII:
Well, what did you expect?

I was hoping for a good movie.

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I think that is a believable reason. He lost his mother in ep. 2 and after all the pain he felt from that, he was willing to do anything to save padme's life.

Sounds good in theory, doesn’t it? The execution was the failure… not the premise.

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Also, he didn't go straight from being good to being darth vader. it started off small, but palpatine kept pressuring him and one thing led to another.

One thing led to another… what was the other? It boiled down to “I can save Padme’s life with some ‘black magic voodoo’ that I can’t prove exists… wanna join me on the Dark Side?”

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eventually he was in so far, he couldn't turn back

It was like watching a pouty teenager flailing about, downing in a foot of water. Sit up, Anakin! It ain’t THAT deep… for crying out loud.

Anakin was “seduced” by the Dark Side with an offering equivalent to a bag of “magic beans”.

Annakin was always presented as an immature, insecure wunderkind. He knows he has tremendous skills, but nobody else will deem him worthy. He's obviously much younger and immature than Padme. He has some serious character flaws which are undoubtedly partly caused by having no father and losing his mother, but he needs those flaws to be seduced to the dark side.

Now, if you honestly believed that Lucas should have conceived this Annakin-centered trilogy along the lines of some Shakespearean tragedy, feel free, but I'm not sure that connects to the other three films, except for maybe about five minutes at the end of The Empire Strikes Back.

Just as much as others will always hate Lucas and everything he did after he tinkered with his earlier trilogy, I'll believe that many people's perceptions of Ep. 1-3 will always be colored by that same hate. And no, I don't think I'm making them out any better than others are saying that they're worse. I just think that there are actual motivations, and in truth, those motivations aren't that much weaker than those in Macbeth.

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Originally posted by mark f:
I give him plenty of credit for making a very good entertainment. It also connects all the Star Wars movies, but you're missing the point why he can't get a break. He did what he wanted with HIS movies. He "ruined" people's dreams and lives by throwing extra F/X into his old movies and "raping" their content to make the greatest villain become a eunuch. I don't agree with that appraisal at all, but it's so ingrained in millions of people's minds, that that's the way it is whether it's a crock or not.

The combined success of Episodes 4, 5, and 6 originated from the tremendous efforts of a talented and innovative team. Lucas decided to abandon all outside influences (and help from others) in his last movies and it shows. That is why there is a split between fans of Star Wars. The original trilogy shined with a collaborative team effort and Lucas’ imagination fueling it all. In his later efforts, he wanted to “do it all”… and he sucks as a writer and a director. And when he went back and “redid” the old trilogy… his contributions were pointless and empty in spirit (they were pure eyecandy).

Lucas may own the Star Wars franchise, but he was hardly the “talent” behind the original trilogy’s success… so there. ;-p (And yes, I know he directed and wrote Episode 4, but coincidently he didn’t win any Oscars for those two contributions, the 6 awards won went to other people ON HIS TEAM… imagine that.)

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Originally posted by mark f:
Annakin was always presented as an immature, insecure wunderkind. He knows he has tremendous skills, but nobody else will deem him worthy. He's obviously much younger and immature than Padme. He has some serious character flaws which are undoubtedly partly caused by having no father and losing his mother, but he needs those flaws to be seduced to the dark side.

I simply couldn’t bring myself to care at all about the characters in the newest episodes (Anakin most of all). Yes, he was supposed to be immature, naive, and hold the most potential of any other Jedi before him… but from a film making perspective we have to look at not the flaws of Anakin’s character, but the flaws in the portrayal of the character (which, of course, relates to Lucas’ directing and Christensen’s acting). There was nothing admirable about Hayden’s screen presence. Nothing that would make you like or truly hate his character… I was simply annoyed by Christensen’s performance and Lucas’ directing/writing (as were many other people).

Maybe others “hate” Lucas, but I don’t. I think his last three movies simply sucked (Episode 6 was disappointing in certain areas as well).

Mark, if you truly believe that the new trilogy was of the same caliber as the original trilogy… I don’t know what else to say (because I get that feeling in your argument about it all “connecting” together so well).

Revenge of the Sith is a terrible film.

What seperates the prequels from the originals is the humour. The actors knew their lines were awful so they acted tongue-in-cheek - it gave the films a sense of FUN!!! The wooden acting in Sith (and the previous 2) is unforgiveable.

I challenge ANYONE to stick up for the bit where Darth Vader goes 'NOOOOOOO!!!!!'. I laughed so hard I fell off my seat.

When I first saw ROTS in the theatre, I was impressed by it but had a looming ambivalence. I just watched on a trip two weeks ago and began to realize exactly how much Lucus failed to salvage the Star Wars saga.

Foremost and most obvious, CGI on the millionth order. On Coruscant, there is simply too much on-screen activity. It is a feat of computer graphics and film interface to see thousands of anti-gravity vehicles whirl through the sky routes however from a cinematic point of view, such an endeavor is distracting and does not contribute to whatever the intended focal point of the scene it to be. Building upon this, the hard truth is that as realistic and advanced modern computer animation is, still, it is computer animation and anyone can discern this. I remember the scale model ships from the 1970s and while on occasion they bear a tad too much similarity to Legos, for the most part they were very realistic. One can feel the depth and solid nature of the battle crusiers and structures. As good as the boys at ILM are, no one can honestly dispute that the Jedi Temple, Galactic Senate hall, and various battle scenes are hollow looking, even spurious in nature.

About on equal footing with the above is the overall screenplay; the film's plot and dialogue are lacking at best and usually painful. To dissect the whole of ROTS would require copious amounts of time, time enough that I am not willing to expend at this time. But as examples, the battle scenes had no cohesive qualities to them. We see a grand mash of Wookies, Stormtroopers, droids, and their vehicles. There are thousands of explosions, deaths, weapon discharges, and random belligerent participants. Peter Jackson negatively impacted the Lord of the Rings universe in the same fashion but not nearly to the degree of Lucus. To me, upon further study of the movie, Lucus 'borrowed' from Halo and Halo II to conjure up the various theatres of war and RTS computer games to inject the overall confusion and wanton disgregard for tactical consideration. Why had Wookies perform an aerial drop on a beach-landing transport when it appears there are hundreds on them? Why have as the defense of Kasyyyk begin with light infantry and wait to unveil heavy artillery and tanks? Some of the battle scenes were rather difficult to follow and were even dizzying. The planet Obi-wan visits hosts a battle as confusing as it is ridiculous with the droids not instantly shooting down Obi-wan's ship or at least forming an active defense. But going beyond the battles, the transitions in the movie were dreadfully forced. The climactic turn of Anakin to Darth Vader collapses on itself like a new black hole. His turn to the Dark Side is a weak-willed result of him trying to save Padme from a fear bequeathed to him from his dreams. When I remember Episode IV and V, the Darth Vader I immagined was a scarred warrior who gradually converted to the Dark Side after reaching an event horizon at which time he was hopelessly pulled to it. No. Lucus gives a character who belongs on the OC with a woman's hairdo. At the point of converting, he is crying, squeeking to Palpatine. And worse yet AFTER killing several children, he is back to his Dawson's Creek mode embracing Padme as if nothing happened. In a nutshell, Lucus not only droped the ball, he drop kicked it 70 yards downfield. The dialogue has already been effectively critiqued so I need not rehash the topic.

I did enjoy the acting of Ian McDiarmid and Ewan McGregor. McDiarmid did over do it in my view, but I can assure everyone that this was at the direction of Lucus. McGregror carried many of the scenes providing much needed depth and personality to an overall green screen movie.

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Originally posted by maxwelledison:
"You're so beautiful."
“That’s only because I’m so in love.”
"No, it’s because I’m so in love with you."

"For a moment," comments Lane, "it looks as if they might bat this one back and forth forever, like a baseline rally on a clay court."

Hehehe. It still makes me chuckle.

Obviously, this critic has never been in love or has, at the very least, never had a girlfriend. This is what couples do. They try to out do each other's 'I love you' for quite a few sentences. Take my wife for instance. We've been together for 6 years & married for 4 of those, yet, everytime I say, "I love you", she comes back with, "I love you more". This sometimes goes on for a few more "No, I love YOU more" & such.

Admittingly, this can be annoying. Especially, after being together this long & she STILL does it. It's what lovers do when they are TRULY in love. At least they didn't carry on such as this!

Personally, I loved the prequels & must disagree with you on saying this one was the worst one EVER. From the sound of it, you guys didn't REALLY like ANY of the Star Wars films very much. Lucas, himself, has said these movies were intended for children, not adults. It makes me wonder, if you didn't like the previous movies, why see these? Me, I'm just a big kid. I still enjoy many kid's cartoon shows, toys, & movies & I'm glad I finally have children so that I don't look so wierd standing in the toy aisle or waiting in line for a Disney movie.

The Prequels answered the nerdy questions me & my friends had, such as:
How did Palpatine become the head of an Empire?
Why did Anakin turn to the Dark Side?
What-the-hell were the "Clone Wars"?
What was Round 1 between Obi Wan & Vader like?
How was Yoda a great warrior?
And so on...

They changed NOTHING about the last three. You just now have some history on the characters you fell in love with in the original trilogy. It makes the end of Episode VI that much more tragic, because now you know Vader was just lost & deceived by the most diabolical mind in the galaxy.

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Originally posted by maxwelledison:
"You're so beautiful."
“That’s only because I’m so in love.”
"No, it’s because I’m so in love with you."

"For a moment," comments Lane, "it looks as if they might bat this one back and forth forever, like a baseline rally on a clay court."

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Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
Obviously, this critic has never been in love or has, at the very least, never had a girlfriend. This is what couples do. They try to out do each other's 'I love you' for quite a few sentences. Take my wife for instance. We've been together for 6 years & married for 4 of those, yet, everytime I say, "I love you", she comes back with, "I love you more". This sometimes goes on for a few more "No, I love YOU more" & such.

Admittingly, this can be annoying. Especially, after being together this long & she STILL does it. It's what lovers do when they are TRULY in love. At least they didn't carry on such as this!

So TRUE LOVE is about being annoying? My wife and I love each other greatly (have for over a decade), but we both found the Star Wars prequels to be so juvenile that it was laughable.

Just because the Star Wars prequels were focused towards children doesn’t excuse the terrible dialog and script. The Incredibles… good! Star Wars prequels… bad! Seriously, the writing was bad… really bad.

Maybe if I tell my wife that I love her to “infinity plus one”, I’ll starting liking the Star Wars prequels. ;-)

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Originally posted by Echolocating:
So TRUE LOVE is about being annoying? My wife and I love each other greatly (have for over a decade), but we both found the Star Wars prequels to be so juvenile that it was laughable.

Just because the Star Wars prequels were focused towards children doesn’t excuse the terrible dialog and script. The Incredibles… good! Star Wars prequels… bad! Seriously, the writing was bad… really bad.

Maybe if I tell my wife that I love her to “infinity plus one”, I’ll starting liking the Star Wars prequels. ;-)

I didn't mean it was annoying to us, it's annoying to those overhearing the banter. My brother & sister get especially impatient when my wife calls me from one of their phones & starts with it at the end of our conversation.

As for the writing, I don't know what you were expecting. The writing was the same throughout all six. It puzzles me on how people hold the originals on a pedistal. The acting in them wasn't very good, either. (The scene in "Return of the Jedi" between Han & Leia in the Ewok village was reminiscent of a Soap Opera!) Yet, everyone claims the prequels are so much worse!

I'm a firm believer in storylines & leaving them intact. I don't sit & say, "The last part was better" or "I only enjoyed the beginning". I like all 3 "Matrix" movies, while others only liked the first. I find this preposturous because the first wasn't a complete story. Same goes for "Star Wars", the final 3 episodes are incomplete without the first 3. They refer to events from episodes 1-3, this makes the first 3 apart of the storyline!

As I said, these movies are for TRUE STAR WARS FANS who were interested in the backstory of Lucas' Universe. There are alot worse acted & written movies out there & I only think people are jumping all over the prequels because there is such a strong fanbase. Really, if they were so awful, why were there long lines for the midnight showings? Or why was the theater packed all three times I went to go see each one?

Just because something happens in real life doesn’t make it good cinema.

I didn’t really like Return of the Jedi. I thought the last two Matrix movies were mediocre. The entire Lord of the Rings Trilogy was poorly paced and unnecessarily slow.

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Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
Really, if they were so awful, why were there long lines for the midnight showings? Or why was the theater packed all three times I went to go see each one?

People can’t look away from a train wreck.

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I was disappointed with the last 4 Star Wars movies because of the poor writing and directing. George Lucas is not a good director. He is not a good writer. Star Wars movies have won awards in the past, but George Lucas has never been a recipient. When Star Wars has won anything, other talented people got the awards. However, Lucas accepted no help from anybody when he made the prequels, he made all the calls… and it shows.

Bioware’s Knights of the Old Republic did more justice to the Star Wars universe than any of the prequels ever did.

If you go to IMDB, The Empire Strikes Back is #9, A New Hope is #12, Return of the Jedi is #108 and the rest of the movies don’t even rank.

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I can say without a doubt that I could have made a better prequel trilogy than Lucas did because… I’d hire professionals to write and direct the movie. ;-)

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Originally posted by Echolocating:
People can’t look away from a train wreck.

Indeed. I must say that was some prettey expensive "rubber-necking" at nearly $10 a gander. I don't know if I made myself clear but, I went to 3 showings of each film weeks apart & EVERYTIME the theater was full. For that many people to go to these movies just to sit & be as bored as you & a number of people were, just doesn't make sense to me. The theater isn't as cheap as it use to be & I only go to see a movie I'm sure I will enjoy.

I was talking with a buddy of mine & he compared "Star Wars" to Michael Jackson. Back in the day, Michael really was "The King of Pop" but, you couldn't find a single fan on the street. You see the concerts on television & the place was packed to overflowing but, to step outside the door, you couldn't find a single person to admit they liked him.

I find this same problem with "Star Wars". Everyone associates it with geeks & nerds, so, to admit they went to see it & enjoyed it would dampen their image. I believe you didn't like the movie for your own legitamite reasons & that you are entitled to your opinion but, this movie was far from the Worst of 2005. "Revenge of the Sith" was the only "Star Wars" movie not to be slammed by every critic & fan. You obviously weren't a big fan, so why go see these?

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Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
You obviously weren't a big fan, so why go see these?

Well, as I’ve stated previously in this topic, I am a Star Wars fan. I love the universe that George created, but he’s a lousy writer and director. He’s very creative, but his creativity couldn’t save the prequels from being anything but a disappointment.

Why did I go see Revenge of the Sith after seeing the even more ridiculous Attack of the Clones? A part of me wanted to see the conclusion of the prequels to a universe that I love and another part of me hoped that George’s ego would let him accept some help from others with his movies.

I like Star Wars. What’s so hard to understand? You make it seem like if you’re a Star Wars fan, you have to be a fan of George Lucas too. It doesn’t have to work that way.

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Originally posted by Echolocating:
I like Star Wars. What’s so hard to understand? You make it seem like if you’re a Star Wars fan, you have to be a fan of George Lucas too. It doesn’t have to work that way.

No, I don't think it does have to work that way but, really, HE is the creator of this Universe. I wouldn't say I'm an ultimate Lucas fan but, I do respect the fact that he created the Star Wars Universe & he revolutionized special effects. Without him there would be no Industrial Light & Magic. Every director that has used special effects in their movies gives Lucas the credit.

As for his writing & directing, I can understand why he would rather do this himself. It is something near to his heart. The only reason he gave up the reigns in the other 2 is because he was stressed out & couldn't handle the pressure. I don't think it's fair that you blame his directing when someone else actually directed "Return of the Jedi" & you still didn't like it.

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Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
As for his writing & directing, I can understand why he would rather do this himself. It is something near to his heart.

That’s a polite way of saying his ego got in the way. If you think George is a great writer/director fine, but I don’t think he is.

For the record, Return of the Jedi is better than any of the prequels. Secondly, Richard Marquand is not that great of a director, but better than George. He had just finished Eye of the Needle (one of his highest acclaimed movies) before he got the nod for Return of the Jedi. Then, mysteriously, he faded from the directing scene with a few stinkers.

You’re completely right about what George spearheaded in regards to special effects. The industry owes him a lot for pushing the boundaries, in that respect. However, nobody disputes George’s efforts in special effects… just his writing and directing.

This is one of my favorite quotes…
“George, you can write this shit, but you can't say it.” – Harrison Ford