quote:

Originally posted by EricG75:
Are you guys seriously arguing about what constitutes "pop" music? That's worse than "what is indie?"

I'm not too sure about that... indie as a genre is not easily definable still whereas pop as a genre is pretty easy to tag.

I agree, can't say I've heard the album but I've heard the single of course and I know exactly what you're talking about with the difference between good/bad pop.

quote:

The thing is, I wasn't weighing in on the "social commentary".. I just saw you making ridiculous statements and decided to call you out on your lack of musical knowledge. Sorry dude, but you're showing it. Bob Dylan wrote popular pop music with a message. So did the Beatles. So did the beach Boys. So did George Michaels. And Michael Jackson. Now, I don't know about you, but I consider those to be about as "pop" as you can get, whether the discussion is about popular music or "pop music". They're the same thing! I very very very rarely hear a popular track which doesn't fit into typical pop songwriting...

Every single band I have presented to you thus far has fit into your wiki definition.

Tell me the Sex Pistols don't fit.

"George Michaels" ? Is the added "s" on the end on purpose or are you showing your lack of musical knowledge?

I'm not your "Dude" and the fact that EricG75 gets what I'm saying after probably a brief review of this thread and you don't tells me you're the type to just complain for the sake of trying to make yourself feel superior, which to me, smacks of insecurity.

That said, I'm starting to get you now.. You can't process nor recognize the distinctions between my main point and the terms I use to support my argument. It sounds to me like you think I'm equating the Beatles/Beach Boys/Sex Pistols to KP? I'm not. What I'm saying is that in this particular instance (Not every pop album applies JGlass) KP has produced mindless Pop babble and to read into it is pointless. In your distorted mind, I get the feeling you think I'm making the absolute statement that "All popular music has no meaning." Quit generalizing and base your future replies in my original argument. We're talking about how KP's music is different in the sense that it should not be taken seriously and to do so is misplaced interpretation.

Lastly, I would very strongly state that in the context I've been referring to the Sex Pistols absolutely, positively do not fit into the category of "Pop Music" the same way George Michael, Michael Jackson and The Beatles do. Again, I would also argue that in the definition being used in my argument, Bob Dylan also would not fit. Read EricG75's comment below. I think he "gets" what I'm talking about. IOW - Not a lot of American Idol contestants singing Sex Pistols and very rarely does a contestant pull out a Bob Dylan song. Why is this not sinking in?

quote:

Originally posted by JGlass:
"I very very very rarely hear a popular track which doesn't fit into typical pop songwriting."

Your statement above highlights what where you and I are missing each other. I think you're equating all popular music to the definition of "Pop" music I'm referring to in my argument. That's not correct. I'm referring to a certain definition of Pop Music. One with a specific set of priorities in mind of which, serious social commentary is NOT a part of.

And don't get all, "..you making ridiculous statements... and "...you're showing it...". It weakens you're credibility.

BTW - Nice "After passing out" & "Passed the fvck out." pictures on your Myspace page. After seeing these I'm think I'm done with this back-n-forth with a wanna be music journalist, still depending on mommy and daddy, proud of inebriation, multi-high school, still in college, C- mini essayist, yet to figure it out kid like yourself. I really hated to go to this place, but felt overwhelmed after seeing where all this misplaced angst was coming from.

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:
BTW - Nice "After passing out" & "Passed the fvck out." pictures on your Myspace page. After seeing these I'm think I'm done with this back-n-forth with a wanna be music journalist, still depending on mommy and daddy, proud of inebriation, multi-high school, still in college, C- mini essayist, yet to figure it out kid like yourself. I really hated to go to this place, but felt overwhelmed after seeing where all this misplaced angst was coming from.

That's fucking pathetic, that you're willing to make personal attacks in Katy Perry's honor. Really? Aside from all of the incredulous assumptions you made, I'd say that it may be you that needs to grow up.

If you don't understand what we're talking about, then I'm done.

You don't seem to understand that simply because a particular artist doesn't make social commentary (which she does in a song like 'UR SO GHEY') doesn't particularly mean that the music can't be relevant to society. The fact that 'KP' is so popular tells me that their is something inherently flawed with this 'pop' music that you speak of and, additionally, frightens me of what our next generation may think of homosexuality having been raised on Katy Perry.

Also, you've haven't really said anything regarding the merits of Perry's music save that it shouldn't be held to the same standards of good music because it 'isn't trying to make social commentary.' That is all well and good but what you are essentially saying is that the only good thing about Perry is that any moron can listen to it because it's intentions are simply to be uncomplicated.

Having said that, if you want to make personal attacks without reason, please go somewhere else to do it, the internet is a big place.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: St. Mike,

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:
KP's music is different in the sense that it should not be taken seriously and to do so is misplaced interpretation.

But, does the target audience (aka 10 yr old girls) understand the mindlessness behind these tracks? Probably not... that's a problem. So yeah, this bitch is a plague and the more we discuss it, the more times her name is mentioned; the more times her name is mentioned, the higher this will be on a google search; the higher it is on a google search, the more chances of this thread getting checked out by one of those people. They might decide to defend her, or they might decide to check the forums out and listen to music which isn't a cancer on society. So, it isn't pointless.

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:
Lastly, I would very strongly state that in the context I've been referring to the Sex Pistols absolutely, positively do not fit into the category of "Pop Music" the same way George Michael, Michael Jackson and The Beatles do.

The problem is that I used the Wiki definition that YOU POSTED. You're saying that I'm the one who doesn't understand, yet I quote the very first sentence from that article and what I quoted described the Sex Pistols. So, here's how I'll break it down.

Do the Sex Pistols:
noticeable rhythmic element- Yes, I dance to the Pistols all day!

catchy melodies and hooks- Yes! "God Save the Queen" gets stuck in my head like none other.

a mainstream style- bringing rock n' roll back to its simplistic roots AND starting a huge trend so YES!

traditional structure- YES! verse/chrous format


Why was PiL formed? Because Lydon was sick and tired of the A. Popularity and B. Lack of experimentation

Which is when a Punk band was formed who wasn't poppy (although they still got kinda popular because of Lydon). I'm sorry, but I don't agree that Pop music is only popular music (like you seem to feel I do). I feel pop music is any music written with a typical pop structure which is easily swallowed. The problem is you can't separate what you're hearing from the actual song structure.. the Sex Pistols and KP aren't too far musically from each other.

And feel free to attack my writing.. I'm 18 and each of those was written while A. Inebriated and B. 3 hrs before they were due. Oh, and those myspace pics haven't been changed in over 2 years (neither have the captions).

quote:

That's fucking pathetic, that you're willing to make personal attacks in Katy Perry's honor. Really? Aside from all of the incredulous assumptions you made, I'd say that it may be you that needs to grow up.

If you don't understand what we're talking about, then I'm done.

You don't seem to understand that simply because a particular artist doesn't make social commentary (which she does in a song like 'UR SO GHEY') doesn't particularly mean that the music can't be relevant to society. The fact that 'KP' is so popular tells me that their is something inherently flawed with this 'pop' music that you speak of and, additionally, frightens me of what our next generation may think of homosexuality having been raised on Katy Perry.

Having said that, if you want to make personal attacks without reason, please go somewhere else to do it, the internet is a big place.

#1 - Not talking to you.
#2 - Holy smokes! Sounds like the Mormon/Republican has some issues with homosexuality or the mere mention of it? (i.e. difficulty typing the letters G A Y?) Did you also want to suggest that perhaps gays register or perhaps get tattooed so we can use that to protect "...our next generation?" and keep them from being , "...taught hypocrisy"? BTW - it IS OK for of-legal-age, people to explore their sexuality, be it heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality.

You obviously ARE reading too deeply into and thereby being offended by her lyrics. You would've been better off sticking with your, "There is absolutely nothing of value to be found in Katy Perry. The beats are ridiculously bland..." argument. it carries more steam.

Do you really think this KP effort is, "...relevant to society?" Really?

Do you honestly think the song is about "exploring your sexuality"? I doubt it. Seems like capitalizing on a trend AND a group of people to me.

Every gay person I know is pretty offended by her... I think she's a joke but I can understand where they're coming from.

And you're calling someone with a Marx quote and
"For the potheads
Gang Starr" a Mormon/Republican? Hmm..

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:

quote:

That's fucking pathetic, that you're willing to make personal attacks in Katy Perry's honor. Really? Aside from all of the incredulous assumptions you made, I'd say that it may be you that needs to grow up.

If you don't understand what we're talking about, then I'm done.

You don't seem to understand that simply because a particular artist doesn't make social commentary (which she does in a song like 'UR SO GHEY') doesn't particularly mean that the music can't be relevant to society. The fact that 'KP' is so popular tells me that their is something inherently flawed with this 'pop' music that you speak of and, additionally, frightens me of what our next generation may think of homosexuality having been raised on Katy Perry.

Having said that, if you want to make personal attacks without reason, please go somewhere else to do it, the internet is a big place.

#1 - Not talking to you.
#2 - Holy smokes! Sounds like the Mormon/Republican has some issues with homosexuality or the mere mention of it? (i.e. difficulty typing the letters G A Y?) Did you also want to suggest that perhaps gays register or perhaps get tattooed so we can use that to protect "...our next generation?" and keep them from being , "...taught hypocrisy"? BTW - it IS OK for of-legal-age, people to explore their sexuality, be it heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality.

You obviously ARE reading too deeply into and thereby being offended by her lyrics. You would've been better off sticking with your, "There is absolutely nothing of value to be found in Katy Perry. The beats are ridiculously bland..." argument. it carries more steam.

Do you really think this KP effort is, "...relevant to society?" Really?

You couldn't be more wrong. Truth be told I am of the extreme left and there if next to nothing that I find offensive. Why no go try your cursory psychology on somebody else. I have no problem with homosexuality, but I hate to see it become a fad for little girls to kiss other little girls, I want them to actually mean it. I also don't consider myself emo, but to consider someone gay simply because they associate with that counter-culture shouldn't come with false assumptions of their sexuality. Blow me.

KP's music is just as important as any other. Not important in the sense that it is good or has anything to offer, but important because it is popular and a lot of people have heard it. Hence, it has influence on a growing generation. You clearly lack the ability to think so I'm going to stop wasting my words on your meager mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:
Lastly, I would very strongly state that in the context I've been referring to the Sex Pistols absolutely, positively do not fit into the category of "Pop Music" the same way George Michael, Michael Jackson and The Beatles do.

The problem is that I used the Wiki definition that YOU POSTED. You're saying that I'm the one who doesn't understand, yet I quote the very first sentence from that article and what I quoted described the Sex Pistols. So, here's how I'll break it down.

Do the Sex Pistols:
noticeable rhythmic element- Yes, I dance to the Pistols all day!

catchy melodies and hooks- Yes! "God Save the Queen" gets stuck in my head like none other.

a mainstream style- bringing rock n' roll back to its simplistic roots AND starting a huge trend so YES!

traditional structure- YES! verse/chrous format[/QUOTE]

OH! I get it. So if I "...dance all day", and "...gets stuck in my head like none other." THAT in and of itself, constitutes Pop music? What if this happens to someone who listens to Slim Whitman? Does that make his music "Pop"? Not in my argument if you'd care to try harder and grasp what I'm saying when I refer to KP within the context of my definition of Pop music.

Now he's quoting himself? Trolls are awesome.

quote:

You couldn't be more wrong. Truth be told I am of the extreme left and there if next to nothing that I find offensive. Why not go try your cursory psychology on somebody else. I have no problem with homosexuality, but I hate to see it become a fad for little girls to kiss other little girls, I want them to actually mean it. I also don't consider myself emo, but to consider someone gay simply because they associate with that counter-culture shouldn't come with false assumptions of their sexuality. Blow me.

Ask yourself why you hate to see it become a fad for little girls to kiss other little girls whether they mean it or not.

Because it completely bastardizes what the gay rights movement is all about?

You're logic is...

Keep making false assumptions about people you don't know, it's amusing.

quote:

Originally posted by St. Mike:
Now he's quoting himself? Trolls are awesome.

Huh? Where did I quote myself?

"Troll" ? OUTSTANDING! That kind of commentary goes VERY VERY far in making/supporting/defending a case and/or point.

Example Argument: "Taxation without representation is wrong and should not be tolerated by our society."
Example Retort: "You're a troll!"

Great!!

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:
Lastly, I would very strongly state that in the context I've been referring to the Sex Pistols absolutely, positively do not fit into the category of "Pop Music" the same way George Michael, Michael Jackson and The Beatles do.

Look familiar?

If you had any points you would, indeed, be correct. However, the only thing I have seen from you is a very weak argument about pop music being outside of the realm of normal criticism, a little name calling, and more recently blatantly off-the-mark assumptions about people whom you have just encountered.

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:
OH! I get it. So if I "...dance all day", and "...gets stuck in my head like none other." THAT in and of itself, constitutes Pop music? What if this happens to someone who listens to Slim Whitman? Does that make his music "Pop"? Not in my argument if you'd care to try harder and grasp what I'm saying when I refer to KP within the context of my definition of Pop music.

Actually, you're skipping one of the most important parts:
the traditional structure.

When a song has A. traditional structure and B. an emphasis on hooks/melody then yeah, it is pop.

I'm waiting for you to post somewhere else so that I can see if you're purposefully being musically ignorant or if you're just ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by JGlass:

I'm waiting for you to post somewhere else so that I can see if you're purposefully being musically ignorant or if you're just ignorant.

He's a troll, but a bad one. Meaning that he is probably ignorant. Spending time on this forum because he ran out of jam to smear on his face before he passes out.

quote:

Originally posted by St. Mike:
Because it completely bastardizes what the gay rights movement is all about?

You're logic is...
Keep making false assumptions about people you don't know, it's amusing.

What?? Gay rights movement?? Where in the hell are you coming from? I asked why it should matter if little girls kiss other little girls regardless of their meaning. Not, "What greater implications to the gay community do you think will be generated by little girls kissing other little girls?" I think society should let people do whatever they want to do as long as its lawful and safe - and free from your assumptions. And don't forget, we're talking about kissing not something more sinister.

quote:

Originally posted by St. Mike:

quote:

Originally posted by JGlass:

I'm waiting for you to post somewhere else so that I can see if you're purposefully being musically ignorant or if you're just ignorant.

He's a troll, but a bad one. Meaning that he is probably ignorant. Spending time on this forum because he ran out of jam to smear on his face before he passes out.

Once again, spoken like a true adult with a solid footing in the art of debate.

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:
spoken like a true adult with a solid footing in the art of debate.

quote:

Originally posted by Blankenfeld:

BTW - Nice "After passing out" & "Passed the fvck out." pictures on your Myspace page. After seeing these I'm think I'm done with this back-n-forth with a wanna be music journalist, still depending on mommy and daddy, proud of inebriation, multi-high school, still in college, C- mini essayist, yet to figure it out kid like yourself. I really hated to go to this place, but felt overwhelmed after seeing where all this misplaced angst was coming from.

quote:

Originally Posted by Blankenfeld
#2 - Holy smokes! Sounds like the Mormon/Republican has some issues with homosexuality or the mere mention of it? (i.e. difficulty typing the letters G A Y?) Did you also want to suggest that perhaps gays register or perhaps get tattooed so we can use that to protect "...our next generation?" and keep them from being , "...taught hypocrisy"? BTW - it IS OK for of-legal-age, people to explore their sexuality, be it heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality.

Likewise.