Here's my head for the chopping block. I believe it is time to acknowledge The Monkees rightfull place in the pantheon of "Pop pioneers".

"You say we're manufactured,
To that we'll all agree.
So make you're choice,
And we'll rejoice
In never being free"

The original "American idol"s.
Blame them, if you must, but be gentle with me.

See what happens when you leave me alone in this place. I run wild, and start messin' with stuff.

Alone again (Naturally).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: burning man,

An interesting suggestion, burning man. I'm not sure they're the first packaged pop group, but they're certainly one of the most egregiously packaged. And they're quite good.

I wonder if the teen idols of the late 50's and early 60's weren't some of the first American Idol-types.

I do think the Monkees fail to get the respect they deserve.

Funny...the other night I saw a repeat of the short-lived Ben Stiller show and they did a parody of the Monkees as a grunge band (this was 1991-1992) called "The Grungees." It was pretty funny, actually, and it reminded me of how much goofy fun the Monkees were.

HA!! Not only do I have ALL the Monkees albums on vinyl, but I went to a double-bill of "Yellow Submarine" and "Head" at the theatre with my brother and best friend when I was 12 (in 1968.)

I'd say the birth of American pop was somewhere around Stephen C. Foster (my elementary school in Compton), or on the world stage, way, way earlier, but at least before that literal fart Mozart could be mentioned. Of course, there were no radios, CDs, or live streams to unduly influence people.

Mark's right. Stephen Foster is an awfully good place to start.

My wife is writing her dissertation on a number of aspects of the 19th century American minstrel stage. Over the course of her research, I've been exposed to the myriad ways music was sold to the public in the years before sound recordings. In addition to the kind of sheet music publishing that made Foster a sensation in his day and a crucial figure a century-and-a-half later, songwriters sold songbooks, collections not unlike LPs and CDs. What I've found striking, digging through piles and piles of musty collections in research libraries is the sheer number of artists who were enormous sensations with the public for decades and are completely forgotten today. Not surprisingly, today's pop idol remaindered tomorrow is hardly a new phenomenom.

Burning man's original suggestion, though, is well-taken. The Monkees were pioneers. The fact that they got the gig through auditions doesn't place them that far removed from American Idol, with the difference being that they were selected in private and introduced in public only as a fully packaged product as pE points out.

He's right about another thing, they still don't get the respect they deserve. Those were some great records.

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Originally posted by philosopherEric:
Funny...the other night I saw a repeat of the short-lived Ben Stiller show and they did a parody of the Monkees as a grunge band (this was 1991-1992) called "The Grungees." It was pretty funny, actually, and it reminded me of how much goofy fun the Monkees were.

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I've seen only a few, wonderful episodes of that show and that's not one of them. I'm going to have to look out for it on Comedy Central, because that sounds great.

Now Playing: "Bend and Break" Keane Hopes and Fears (Interscope) <-- I keep coming back to it, but ironically enough given the current thread, they're just a bit too packaged and slick for my taste...

Yeah,yeah. Yadda,yadda. Mozart, Foster, Jolson,Caruso(First million seller). "You talk to much. Abracablabra.". The first two efforts were fine, but a bit to sloppy and sentimental. You almost had me with the sentimental stuff, but then you started to rant. I give them a B-, for enthusiasm, however you have missed the point. I encourage you to submit again.

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Originally posted by LinnTate:

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Originally posted by philosopherEric:
Funny...the other night I saw a repeat of the short-lived Ben Stiller show and they did a parody of the Monkees as a grunge band (this was 1991-1992) called "The Grungees." It was pretty funny, actually, and it reminded me of how much goofy fun the Monkees were.

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I've seen only a few, wonderful episodes of that show and that's not one of them. I'm going to have to look out for it on Comedy Central, because that sounds great.

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It think it's out on DVD. I recall really liking the show, which aired sporadically on Sunday's (after the NFL), when it first aired. The episodes I've seen on Comedy Central (which air at really bad times...2 AM!) have been funny, if slightly dated.

I can't say much to challenge your take on Keane. I like it, personally, including the single, which I think it great. Does it sound like a mash up of Ben Folds and Coldplay or Travis? Yep. But I like the sound. It is HEAVILY produced and packaged. That doesn't really bother me, though. I can take packaging when I like the product.

Here is my opinion, for what it's worth:

Play the soundrack to "Head" 1,000 times.
Go and see the film.
Bingo. Instant answers.