The definition of "pop" music has always been really fuzzy to me. Can someone make it a bit more clear to me?

Of course, the original def. of pop would be "pop"ular, but that changes as time moves on. 20 years ago, hip-hop would not have been pop, since it didn't exist. Now, it basically defines the genre, unless you need to include girl "young women" singers or "modern rock", a euphemism which seems to imply the latest, greatest suck-ass group.

Pop should mean the music that people would love if they heard it, but the Bone-Thugz said hell, no, show me the money.

Pop has no real clear definition. I would say that pop music is that music that is most closely tied to commericalism and the pursuit of money over any sort of artistic credibility. It is the music that is most made to be radio friendly and is more comfortable to follow long established trends rather than do anything new.

It is a type of music rather than a genre IMO though, in that a whole genre of music is not necessarily pop and the whole of pop is not necessarily one genre. If that makes any sense.

"Whenever I ask England's six leading economists a question, I get seven answers -- two from Mr. Keynes." Winston Churchill

When I worked in a record store in the 80s, the Pop section was probably the source of more arguments among the staff than anything else incuding control of the store turntable. "Pop" was generally the home of middle-of-the-road artists, Lawrence Welk, and the rest of what we deemed painfully uncool. When we sent an artist to the Pop section, it was a stinging indictment delivered as only a pretentious bunch of record store clerks can deliver a stinging indictment, with the intent of pissing somebody off.

Personally, I think music has to meet two criteria for me to consider it Pop. First, it should have broad appeal. A cult Pop star is an oxymoron, though I doubt anybody has ever used that term, so forget about it. Second, Pop needs to be new. I think Pop, by it's very definition, tends to have a limited shelf-life. In other words, yesterday's Pop is today's nostalgia.

Of course, that doesn't help us much with the oft cited generes of Power Pop or Jangle Pop, thus I sign my name, Mr. Keynes.

Now Playing: "Second Guess" The Butchies _Make Yr Life_ (Yep Roc) <-- Not Pop.

Yes, Power Pop, the reasom for my severe unsureness". On a music website I searced for my curerent favorite band, The New Pornographers. They labeled it under Power Pop. I took this rather harsh for I have always considered Pop to be synonomous with crappy, fad, boy band-esque music. To put Power in front of it was the nail in the coffin.

Could my fav. band be considered Ultra-crappy by some music site?

Soo---yeah thats why I asked---if anyone was wondering.

That makes sense, Eccentro. While not everybody is a fan of Power Pop, you'll find plenty around here. My suspicion is, the site you visited was, at the least, trying to put The New Pornographers in some context, and may even have been paying them a compliment.

Power Pop tends to be characterized by an emphasis on strong melodic hooks, the kind of catchy musical phrases that take up residence in your brain and live there without mercy. A lot of Power Pop is built around guitars, though not all, as Ben Folds can attest.

If I were to give you a thumbnail history of Power Pop (that reflects a wealth of bias on my part), I would describe its roots as including The Beatles, The Beach Boy, and The Byrds. It's founding bands included The Raspberries and Big Star. It made it's first, biggest popular splash with Cheap Trick and has been continuing along with varying success every since with Matthew Sweet, Material Issue, Teenage Fanclub, Velvet Crush, and far too many more than I can name right here.

philosopherEric and mark f are just two others around here (sorry if I've left anybody out) whose knowledge of Power Pop is considerable, wide-ranging and probably far more thorough than my own, but that at least should get you started.

Now Playing: "Just You, Just Me" Lester Young _The Complete Lester Young Studio Sessions on Verve_ (Verve)

For the tightest definition, one would go on both sales and music style.

If it's on MTV, but it's mopey sludge rock, rap, or something else that's not easily comparable to Avril, Britney, or Christina, you tag it pop-whatever.

If it's catchy and pleasant, but mostly talked about by people on chatrooms and message boards (New Pornographers, the Shins, etc.), you stick the "indie" in front.

Country-pop (Shania) may just be called pop if the definition is lenient.

Norah Jones would also need a lenient definition to just be called pop. "Boring pop" would work if you want to get specific. If you affiliate jazz with her, I will smack you.

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Originally posted by LinnTate:

Power Pop tends to be characterized by an emphasis on strong melodic hooks, the kind of catchy musical phrases that take up residence in your brain and live there without mercy. A lot of Power Pop is built around guitars, though not all, as Ben Folds can attest.

If I were to give you a thumbnail history of Power Pop (that reflects a wealth of bias on my part), I would describe its roots as including The Beatles, The Beach Boy, and The Byrds. It's founding bands included The Raspberries and Big Star. It made it's first, biggest popular splash with Cheap Trick and has been continuing along with varying success every since with Matthew Sweet, Material Issue, Teenage Fanclub, Velvet Crush, and far too many more than I can name right here.

philosopherEric and mark f are just two others around here (sorry if I've left anybody out) whose knowledge of Power Pop is considerable, wide-ranging and probably far more thorough than my own, but that at least should get you started.

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Thanks for the "props" as the kids say, LinnTate. I've been a power pop junkie since I discovered (via my love for Twin Cites rock) Big Star. To help matters out here, I'll start a new topic on power pop, in case anyone else wants to get power pop crazy.

As far as what "pop" is, I always felt it was a catch-all for albums and artists who were not necessarily popular (as in top-sellers) but whose style would seem to appeal to a broader cross-section of the population. But then you see strange cases of stuff that you would never expect to get a wide appeal to the masses (remember 2 Live Crew?) that gets VERY popular for a large cross-section.

I think most people think "pop" is the more mainstream radio-friendly stuff, like Britney, Justin, Jessica Simpson, etc. But then look at Outkast, who are an easy fit on the radio but aren't "pop" in the same sense as those others.

As many here have already noted, you can also get cross-pollination: country-pop, pop rock,
etc.

Ah...pop. To paraphrase the Supreme Court on pornography: I don't know how to describe pop, but I know it when I hear it.

I don't want to duplicate myself, so check out the Power Pop thread under General Music. LinnTate, love ya, baby!

Radio friendly and mainstream music that has good and bad like all genres. Yes, Norah is slow pop. But she's great for those quiet times IMO.

Pop is easy to define. If you hate pop music then pop is simply music that you hate but the majority love (and Alternative is music that you love that's unfortunity loved by everyone else too... after all you couldn't possibly like pop music could you? Aren't you better than that?)

If you love pop music then it's just what's popular among your friends and society in general.

pop is popular music plain and simple.

Alot of music and styles can fall under it.

Popular in what way though? Punk rock is not necessarily considered "Pop" but it is popular among many people. I am going to have to say that "Pop" is a direct quotation from popular culture. Which is as Mattd said,

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Radio friendly and mainstream music.

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Some examples are the now expired (Thank God) Nsync, Jessica Simpson, Britney Spears, etc. etc.

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Originally posted by Imprezu21:
pop is popular music plain and simple.

Alot of music and styles can fall under it.

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True enough. By definition, Bright Eyes is now "pop music", as reported by Pitchfork yesterday:

Ryan Schreiber reports:
It's commonly accepted that the first stage in the grieving process is denial, a fact that many of us in the great blue state of Illinois were coldly reminded of last Tuesday evening, and again last night when it was revealed that Bright Eyes' two new singles-- "Lua" and "Take It Easy (Love Nothing)", which preview material from his two forthcoming full-lengths, due in January-- had taken the #1 and #2 spots on Billboard's singles chart. Truth told, we still aren't ready to accept it. In fact, we're hesitant to even report it, except we know it's true. When next week's charts are revealed on Saturday, Bright Eyes will sit proudly at the top. Surely, this is the news that sent Arafat over the edge.

You probably already guessed, pE, that I liked Bright Eyes' "Loaded, etc" even if it was mostly anti-pop with Dylanesque flavors. I find it difficult to believe that the new singles are "pop" now, even though there were several examples of great "pop production" on the last album. I also enjoy the concept of "pop" faking out airheads, but I have to wonder if there's been a "messing-around" with Billboard's charts. Has anyone heard these "singles"? I'll shut up just in case I'm arguing against my own fundamental precepts. If appropriate, you go Conor, I mean...Bright Eyes.

P.S. That's an interesting idea, that while Arafat is basically brain-dead, that he knows more about the state of "American Pop" than whoever the hell it is that we accept as knowing more.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I'm sort of in awe/repulsion at this storm_chaser guy's post count. He's been a member for two days and already has 72 posts.

There's no consistent definition of the word "pop". I generally think of it as music whose main purpose is to sell records. It can cross over into most other genres of music.

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Originally posted by Biggles:
Sorry to go off-topic, but I'm sort of in awe/repulsion at this storm_chaser guy's post count. He's been a member for two days and already has 72 posts.

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Well, you did sort of throw down the gauntlet over in the "1000 users" thread.

Heck, I know of a political forum where some of the heavy hitters can post that many times in a 2-hour span....

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Originally posted by Biggles:
Sorry to go off-topic, but I'm sort of in awe/repulsion at this storm_chaser guy's post count. He's been a member for two days and already has 72 posts.

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In a previous incarnation, storm_chaser posted something like 500 times in a month. Now THAT'S devotion!

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Originally posted by philosopherEric:
In a previous incarnation, storm_chaser posted something like 500 times in a month. Now THAT'S devotion!

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I'd hate to give up that many Karma points just for a new screen name.

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Pop absorbs all sorts of musical styles and through the process of bonding various styles to a pop melody and a pop beat, makes it into a pop song...well...not always...

Experimental pop does...and if it doesn't it should...

...right, nobody can define pop.

but generally, the best pop is experimental pop and indie pop.