I think Burton's stuff is kind of spotty. He's made a few great movies (Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands, Pee-Wee), but "Planet of the Apes" was terrible and in retrospect I don't think his Batman movies have held up that well. They especially seem unimpressive after seeing Christopher Nolan's "Batman Begins". One of his movies that I liked despite it's mediocre reviews was "Sleepy Hollow".

He's made a "few" great movies? How about Beetlejuice? and The Nightmare Before Christmas? (ok he didn't direct it but it's still very much Tim's film) The first Batman rocks as well.
And lets not forget Batman Returns, a film which I consider to be the best comic-book movie adaptation to date, superior to the first Batman (which was very cool) and Begins (which I really liked actually). Returns unimpressive next to Begins? Come on, that's poop in a chef's salad.
Anyway, Planet of the Apes, "terrible", that's very harsh. It's definitely his worst film but it's not that bad. I find it very entertaining and good fun.
Oh, and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was brilliant.

quote:

Originally posted by Edward Nygma:
He's made a "few" great movies? How about Beetlejuice? and The Nightmare Before Christmas? (ok he didn't direct it but it's still very much Tim's film) The first Batman rocks as well.
And lets not forget Batman Returns, a film which I consider to be the best comic-book movie adaptation to date, superior to the first Batman (which was very cool) and Begins (which I really liked actually). Returns unimpressive next to Begins? Come on, that's poop in a chef's salad.
Anyway, Planet of the Apes, "terrible", that's very harsh. It's definitely his worst film but it's not that bad. I find it very entertaining and good fun.
Oh, and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was brilliant.

Burton's Batman films aren't bad, but in retrospect they're still a little cheesy. The thing I liked about "Batman Begins" is that it lacked the over-the-top performances that plague so many other comic book adaptations.

As for "Planet of the Apes", it was terrible in the sense that it's probably the most unnecessary film in recent times. He added nothing to it, and changed the ending, which was the best part of the original.

Ok, I see what you mean, those are valid arguments there. Although I don't think there's anything "cheesy" about Burton's Batman films. Begins was a more "realistic" take on the Batman story whereas Burton's style was more theatrical if you will. I personally prefer this latter style as I don't really think comic book adaptations should take themselves too seriously. But you must agree that Cillian Murphy's performance as Scarecrow got increasingly over-the-top as the film went on, which I appreciated greatly.
And I agree with you totally when you say Planet of the Apes was pretty unnecessary and that the changing of the ending was not a good idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Edward Nygma:
...I don't think there's anything "cheesy" about Burton's Batman films. Begins was a more "realistic" take on the Batman story whereas Burton's style was more theatrical if you will. I personally prefer this latter style as I don't really think comic book adaptations should take themselves too seriously.

I guess this is a fair statement, that they're more theatrical and not based in reality. The only counter-argument I would make is that Batman is one of the few comic book heroes that could be real. He, nor none of the villians in the series possess any kind of superhuman powers. He's just a rich guy with some fancy gadgets (think James Bond in a mask), which is exactly how Nolan treated the series.

As for Cillian Murphy, I wouldn't say his performance was too over-the-top. I mean, he definitely got more crazy as time went on, but it never got cartoony in the way that Jack Nicholson's performance did in the first Batman film.

Yeah, that's actually why Batman has always been my favourite superhero, he doesn't have powers or anything, he's just a guy, but he kicks butt.
Jack Nicholson was definitely "cartoony" in Batman but is that necessarily a bad thing? I mean, it's the Joker! The Joker is supposed to be theatrical, he's totally insane! I guess Burton wanted to keep some of the charm from the old TV series and add his own darkness to it all. Which made his films not only very entertaining and stylish but funny as well.
Nolan took the "serious" approach, which, as far as I'm concerned, is a good thing even though I will always prefer Tim Burton's versions.
SPOILER WARNING
By the way, I totally laughed out loud when Scarecrow gets defeated at the end, it was so funny the way it happened. I think they should bring him back for the next Batman as he was a cool, scary-as-hell villain.

For me:
1. Edward Scissorhands - perfect twisted fairytale. Heartbreaking, funny and deeply romantic.
2. Ed Wood
3. Big Fish
4. Nightmare Before Christmas
5. Batman Returns

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
As for "Planet of the Apes", it was terrible in the sense that it's probably the most unnecessary film in recent times. He added nothing to it, and changed the ending, which was the best part of the original.

I wouldn't say it was unnecessary & that he added nothing. Most remakes ARE unnecessary. Did we really need another "The Hitcher", "Alfie", "The Longest Yard", "Ocean's 11", "Gone in 60 Seconds", "King Kong", so on & so forth? The answer is no, we didn't. Every director has a film that put them on their respective paths & most of them dream of remaking said films. Alot of the time I enjoy a remake, if mostly for the better acting & special effects. In the case of "The Planet of the Apes", Burton had a chance to really go somewhere with this movie. Special effects make up has come along way from the masks the original performers wore, I mean, alot of the time you could see the actors lips in the mouths of the apes! The second time around we had very realistic apes. That's one thing Burton added & I must say that was no small thing for me. As for the ending, what would be the point in repeating an ending that was a shock to the original's audience? I'm betting most people went expecting it to have been Earth all along. There wouldn't have been any shock value, only nostalgia, & that's just not good enough when it comes to a remake. Having General Thade escape & manage to take over the Earth was similar to the original. Sure, the first had a social commentary on nuclear war, but we don't really need that particular subtext in movies these days. I enjoyed it, as did KinKaid, my monkey. RIP

Tim Burton is one of my favorite directors, mostly for the fact that his movies are so strange. "Planet of the Apes" was actually the most "down to earth" movie I've ever seen of his. (Even though "Ed Wood" was actually based on real life! ) I've enjoyed & own on DVD every movie he's made since "Pee Wee's Big Adventure" all the way to "Corpse Bride". I can't wait for "Sweeney Todd"! He'll be teaming back up with Johnny Depp & they work so well together!

See, monkeymagic, what ol' Ishy is gonna have to say about this is.......

Planet of the Apes should NEVER repeat, NEVER have been remade....oh, how I detest that remake...sorry, hate to disagree with an animal lover

quote:

Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
As for the ending, what would be the point in repeating an ending that was a shock to the original's audience? I'm betting most people went expecting it to have been Earth all along. There wouldn't have been any shock value, only nostalgia, & that's just not good enough when it comes to a remake.

The orginal's ending is the best part about that film. It's one of the all time classic twist endings. Burton changed it into an ending that wasn't exciting at all.

It would be the equivalent of remaking The Empire Strikes Back and have Darth Vader not be Luke's father.

Yes, the special effects were better, but special effects don't make a movie. Ask anyone who's seen Star Wars eps. 1-3.

Oh, you party poopers! It is impossible to remake "The Empire Strikes Back" in the way you describe because it is part of a series & you would have to change the entire story by making that small change. "The Planet of the Apes" wasn't supposed to be a series of movies, so to change things about the first one isn't that big of a deal. I did enjoy the original very much, but even when I was young, the make up always pulled me out of the reality of it. I don't really look at Burton's version as a literal remake, but a different look at the same story. Stan Winston did a wonderful job on the ape look & the battle at the end was wonderful to me! Also, seeing apes driving cars, operating video cameras, wearing "real" clothes, I loved it!

P.S.
Be careful what you say about the "Star Wars" movies, buddy! I am one of the FEW who love all six. If I wasn't married, I'd marry those movies because I love them sooooooo much!

quote:

Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:
It is impossible to remake "The Empire Strikes Back" in the way you describe because it is part of a series & you would have to change the entire story by making that small change.

Yes. This was more of a hypothetical example. I could've used any number of films with a shocking twist at the end.

I guess story is paramount for me when watching films. I'm far more forgiving of a well scripted movie that doesn't look great than I am a good looking movie with a lousy plot.

quote:

Originally posted by eric75:
I guess story is paramount for me when watching films. I'm far more forgiving of a well scripted movie that doesn't look great than I am a good looking movie with a lousy plot.

Geez, you guys sure are all about being "above the rest". Some movies are out there just for fun. Sure, I love a movie with an involving story, but sometimes it's fun just to let go. Are you saying "Pee Wee's Big Adventure" was a plot-filled, thought provoking film? It was grown men behaving like small children! It was funny & I did love the movie, but it was NOT intelligent.

I'm honestly not a snob, but I don't think a well written film is too much to ask for. I liked Pee-Wee's Big Adventure. That was a very cleaver and orginal film. I liked how Burton took Paul Reubans' man-child stage show an turned it into a offbeat, sometimes dark road comedy about lost innocence. Oh, and the film-within-a-film starring James Brolin and Morgan Fairchild was genius.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
I liked how Burton took Paul Reubans' man-child stage show an turned it into a offbeat, sometimes dark road comedy about lost innocence. Oh, and the film-within-a-film starring James Brolin and Morgan Fairchild was genius.

Well, at least we agree on this!

Poor old Pee Wee...caught wanking in a porno theatre..

I was actually travelling thru the US when that story broke.

They are terrific films, those Pee-Wee adventures, clever, witty and well structured with a flavouring of anarchy.

Ummm, we're still talking about Tim Burton, right?

Anyone looking forward to his Sweeney Todd as much as I am? Without a doubt my favorite musical. And if Burton puts on the gore a la Sleepy Hollow, it could be good gruesome fun.

quote:

Originally posted by kendocubano:
Ummm, we're still talking about Tim Burton, right?

Anyone looking forward to his Sweeney Todd as much as I am? Without a doubt my favorite musical. And if Burton puts on the gore a la Sleepy Hollow, it could be good gruesome fun.

Yeah! I brung that movie up in my first post in this thread a few paragraghs up! (I'm actually the guilty one who revived this thread after 7 months of no action here. I just felt like stirrin' up the Kool-Aid. ) A reteam with Burton & Depp is always good news!

This is a bodacious reverence:

2007 Venice Film Festival to honour Tim Burton

Venice -- Tim Burton, director of Edward Scissorhands and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, will receive the Golden Lion for Lifetime Achievement at this year's Venice Film Festival.

"Tim Burton is a cinematic genius, the most imaginative child of the new age of cinema," festival director Marco Muller said.

The 64th edition of the festival will be held on the Lido in Venice from Aug. 29 through Sept. 8.

Courtesy of The Globe and Mail.

Well, dag, I won't be able to make it! However, in honor of this occasion, I shall spend those days watching every movie he has directed. This shall be my tribute.