Hello all, this is my first post in the "Movies" section of MetaCritic, and I'm aware it's kind of a weird one...

A friend and I were having one of those fun, what-if conversations about UFO's, Roswell, strange possible connections to the US government and all that stuff that's interesting and kind of embarrassing to talk about. It occurred to me that there hasn't been a movie that really attempts to cohesively explore all these phenomena and the various theories surrounding them, some totally loony and some disturbingly convincing. Sure, there's "Communion," "Close Encounters," "Roswell," "The X-Files" and a few others, but they never take that daring step outside the realm of pure entertainment like "JFK" did.

Though, given his reputation, it might seem like an invitation for ridicule, Oliver Stone would be the perfect director to do a movie like this. Think of a movie like "JFK"--unafraid to touch on controversial ideas, an overview of historical events and primary sources woven into an entertaining and thought-provoking film about the UFO phenomenon.

Much like the controversy surrounding the JFK stuff, it's foolish both to entirely dismiss or entirely believe in this UFO business, and who better to explore that nagging grain of truth that seems to lie somewhere in the middle than Oliver Stone?

that actually sounds like a pretty interesting proposition. but my second thought is: if it's not historical revisionism, then oliver's not usually game.

quote:

Originally posted by Commontone:
Hello all, this is my first post in the "Movies" section of MetaCritic, and I'm aware it's kind of a weird one...

A friend and I were having one of those fun, what-if conversations about UFO's, Roswell, strange possible connections to the US government and all that stuff that's interesting and kind of embarrassing to talk about. It occurred to me that there hasn't been a movie that really attempts to cohesively explore all these phenomena and the various theories surrounding them, some totally loony and some disturbingly convincing. Sure, there's "Communion," "Close Encounters," "Roswell," "The X-Files" and a few others, but they never take that daring step outside the realm of pure entertainment like "JFK" did.

Though, given his reputation, it might seem like an invitation for ridicule, Oliver Stone would be the perfect director to do a movie like this. Think of a movie like "JFK"--unafraid to touch on controversial ideas, an overview of historical events and primary sources woven into an entertaining and thought-provoking film about the UFO phenomenon.

Much like the controversy surrounding the JFK stuff, it's foolish both to entirely dismiss or entirely believe in this UFO business, and who better to explore that nagging grain of truth that seems to lie somewhere in the middle than Oliver Stone?

I'm a big fan of Oliver Stone, but he's another guy whose best work may be behind him, especially if you look at ALEXANDER, an atrocious film that is destined to become a camp classic.

I've seen PLATOON -- the film that put him on the map -- fairly recently and it holds up very well. I remember Vincent Camby's New York Times review and remember going to see it in Times Square at the now defunct Astor Plaza theatre the first show on a Saturday the day after it opened. I was numb when I walked out of the theater. My roommate at the time saw it and stayed through to see it a second time.

What was also interesting is that SALVADOR, really Ollie's first serious film, was panned on original release. If memory serves me correctly Canby in the influential Times was particularly unkind. So, I skipped the film and SALVADOR kind of came and went without causing much of a ripple.

Because of the accolades which PLATOON rightly received, SALVADOR was re-released in first run theatres and I was blown away by that film as well. It was one of the few good performances that James Balushi gave. James Woods was also terrific.

quote:

ChrisFromAstoria posted:

I'm a big fan of Oliver Stone, but he's another guy whose best work may be behind him, especially if you look at ALEXANDER, an atrocious film that is destined to become a camp classic.

For me, Oliver Stone is back in superb form based on how latest directorial effort in the excellent production of Alexander (2004). The brilliant complex performance of Collin Farrell pays tribute to the epic life of Alexander and Oliver Stone created a vibrant and balanced cultural historical vision of the controversial homosexual element of the times. Much better than Troy that came out that presented a much more mainstream by the numbers historical adventure epic, Oliver Stone instead directed a sensitive, personal and intimate portrait of Alexander among the backdrop of war and political intrigue. Among the best movies of 2004.

quote:

Originally posted by tabuno:

For me, Oliver Stone is back in superb form based on how latest directorial effort in the excellent production of Alexander (2004). The brilliant complex performance of Collin Farrell pays tribute to the epic life of Alexander and Oliver Stone created a vibrant and balanced cultural historical vision of the controversial homosexual element of the times. Much better than Troy that came out that presented a much more mainstream by the numbers historical adventure epic, Oliver Stone instead directed a sensitive, personal and intimate portrait of Alexander among the backdrop of war and political intrigue. Among the best movies of 2004.

Wow. You are probably the only person to say something positive about ALEXANDER. Even Ollie knew he messed up and recut the film for its DVD release (it didn't help).

I think Colin wishes he could buy the prints of this film and burn them. This is a performance that is destined to become a camp classic. And speaking of camp, what was up with that atrocious accent Angelina Jolie was affecting as Farrell's "mother."

quote:

ChrisFromAstoria posted:

Wow. You are probably the only person to say something positive about ALEXANDER. Even Ollie knew he messed up and recut the film for its DVD release (it didn't help).

I think Colin wishes he could buy the prints of this film and burn them. This is a performance that is destined to become a camp classic. And speaking of camp, what was up with that atrocious accent Angelina Jolie was affecting as Farrell's "mother."

Sigh or chuckle. I'm always justifiably smug a bit when somebody makes a bold and strong comment about a movie's terrible rating. But to help those readers who may wonder about veracity the above statement, I'll just provide a few tidbit summaries from this website:

Chicago Tribune Michael Wilmington
Vast, riveting, madly audacious movie biography.

Seattle Post-Intelligencer William Arnold
It's boldly acted, absorbing and satisfying as a history lesson and chock-full of extravagantly brutal battle sequences.

New York Magazine Ken Tucker
As one of the few movies around not pushing state-of-the-art animation or Jude Law, Alexander is a damn good date movie.

Boston Globe Wesley Morris
The best there is to say is that it's better than ''Troy."

Dallas Observer Gregory Weinkauf
The creators of Alexander set out to make an epic, and they can't be faulted for the many elements that succeed on this scale; what's unfortunate is that they don't quite deliver a camp classic (emphasis added).


I'm always curious about comments about accents when it comes to ancient historical languages. How are we supposed to know how the real ancients really sounded like?

quote:

Originally posted by tabuno:

quote:

ChrisFromAstoria posted:

Wow. You are probably the only person to say something positive about ALEXANDER. Even Ollie knew he messed up and recut the film for its DVD release (it didn't help).

I think Colin wishes he could buy the prints of this film and burn them. This is a performance that is destined to become a camp classic. And speaking of camp, what was up with that atrocious accent Angelina Jolie was affecting as Farrell's "mother."

Sigh or chuckle. I'm always justifiably smug a bit when somebody makes a bold and strong comment about a movie's terrible rating. But to help those readers who may wonder about veracity the above statement, I'll just provide a few tidbit summaries from this website:

Chicago Tribune Michael Wilmington
Vast, riveting, madly audacious movie biography.

Seattle Post-Intelligencer William Arnold
It's boldly acted, absorbing and satisfying as a history lesson and chock-full of extravagantly brutal battle sequences.

New York Magazine Ken Tucker
As one of the few movies around not pushing state-of-the-art animation or Jude Law, Alexander is a damn good date movie.

Boston Globe Wesley Morris
The best there is to say is that it's better than ''Troy."

Dallas Observer Gregory Weinkauf
The creators of Alexander set out to make an epic, and they can't be faulted for the many elements that succeed on this scale; what's unfortunate is that they don't quite deliver a camp classic (emphasis added).


I'm always curious about comments about accents when it comes to ancient historical languages. How are we supposed to know how the real ancients really sounded like?

Well, you haven't exactly rolled out heavyweight movie critics to make your point. The only critic I've ever heard of is Wilmington. And some of those quotes are n'texactly ringing endorsements of ALEXANDER.

I mean the Boston Globe's Wesley Morris says it is "better than TROY," which is kind of damning Alexander with faint praise.

And Gregory Weinkopf says that Ollie didn't "deliver a camp classic." Au contraire, Mr. Weinkopf. If Angelina Jolie and that weird accent she affected wasn't camp, then I don't know what camp is.

quote:

ChrisFromAstoria posted:

Well, you haven't exactly rolled out heavyweight movie critics to make your point. The only critic I've ever heard of is Wilmington. And some of those quotes are n'texactly ringing endorsements of ALEXANDER.

I mean the Boston Globe's Wesley Morris says it is "better than TROY," which is kind of damning Alexander with faint praise.

And Gregory Weinkopf says that Ollie didn't "deliver a camp classic." Au contraire, Mr. Weinkopf. If Angelina Jolie and that weird accent she affected wasn't camp, then I don't know what camp is.

I don't think your original comment about "You are probably the only person to say something positive about ALEXANDER." had mentioned anything about heavyweight critics, just people and I hope that you would define a critic as a "person."

You also seem to avoid the question about ancient language pronounciation. Since when does the sound of ancient languages become an actuality since everybody from that time is dead?

Your use of the word camp is also suspect because according to Webster's New World Dictionary your apparent use of the word is slang, originally homosexual jargon for banality, mediocrity, artifice, ostentation, so extreme as to amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal. In some ways, your use of the word could be construed to be a very positive comment about the movie as the nature of the homosexuality in this movie might be such that such camp behavior did truly reflect well on the direction and performances in this movie.

quote:

Originally posted by tabuno:

I don't think your original comment about "You are probably the only person to say something positive about ALEXANDER." had mentioned anything about heavyweight critics, just people and I hope that you would define a critic as a "person."

You also seem to avoid the question about ancient language pronounciation. Since when does the sound of ancient languages become an actuality since everybody from that time is dead?

Your use of the word camp is also suspect because according to Webster's New World Dictionary your apparent use of the word is slang, originally homosexual jargon for banality, mediocrity, artifice, ostentation, so extreme as to amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal. In some ways, your use of the word could be construed to be a very positive comment about the movie as the nature of the homosexuality in this movie might be such that such camp behavior did truly reflect well on the direction and performances in this movie.[/QUOTE]

If the lovely Ms. Jolie spoke as she perceived the people of Alexander's time speaking, why was her accent so different from the other actors' accents? She was way, way, way over the top. And Ms. Jolie met my definition of camp -- by being inadvertendly funny. Her performance was so bad that it was good.

And I apologize for saying that "you" were the only person to say anything positive about ALEXANDER. I should have qualified my remark by saying I didn't see any reviews or know anyone who liked the film.

However, those critics you cite aren't exactly A list critics. After all, the metacritic.com score for ALEXANDER was all of 39.

Ollie is a director who is badly in need of a hit both with John Q. Public and the crix. He is making a 9/11 story about Flight 93.

I hope he can get it together, I like some of his early films a lot, and he has some great ideas. Alexander was truly atrocious, Jolie and Farrell were laughably bad and the movie was clumsily paced. Yeah, the action was solid, and it was better than Troy, but I think 39 is a pretty appropriate score. If this 9/11 project fails...his career is done!

quote:

Originally posted by Commontone:
Though, given his reputation, it might seem like an invitation for ridicule, Oliver Stone would be the perfect director to do a movie like this. Think of a movie like "JFK"--unafraid to touch on controversial ideas, an overview of historical events and primary sources woven into an entertaining and thought-provoking film about the UFO phenomenon.

In one sense, he dabbled with the UFO phenomenon by placing the Donald Sutherland character of 'X' in JFK. JFK is based on the book by Jim Marrs (sp?), who followed up his investigative reporting a few years later with ALIEN AGENDA, a massive tome exploring all kinds of angles relating to alien and/or ufo and/or unexplainable contact and/or involvement of aliens with Earth. The real-life 'X' character -- think Commander X -- from JFK spurred Marrs in the directions that resulted in ALIEN AGENDA ... so there's a link that could prove fruitful if Stone wanted to pick it up. You can even search under Commander X at Amazon, I believe, and see some of the products available from this super secret mystery figure.

Incidentally, ALIEN AGENDA is a frelling awesome book.