quote:

Originally posted by odysseyandoracle:

quote:

Originally posted by grabblegarrr:
Larry Wilmore was formerly a writer for The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, The PJ's, and In Living Color. All those shows focus mainly on black subject matter. The Office has what, one black person?

...

You're right, The Office writers definitely have better resumes than the writers for Arrested Development, but that isn't to say they haven't been involved in their fair share of horrible shows.

The Fresh Prince ruled. I will not accept any criticism of it.

You're a doodyhead who probably likes that show with Jim Belushi.


(Just to be safe: )

Oh I agree, the Fresh Prince is fucking awesome, it's just that it's completely different from the Office. That's a diss on the Office more than anything.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackGravel:

I did the research I did because I'm somewhat invested in trying to spread around what I consider to be important truths. Some people are like that with horseshit like religion or politics, topics that NOBODY is really right about and that WASTE any and every second you spend thinking about them. I do it with music and movies. TV shows. CANDY. Things everyone can enjoy and understand, things that matter to real people, things interested in and acquainted with.

I will suggest it one more time, but "zarathustra" seems to be just as fitting of a member name. Hell, changing might keep you out of the fray for a while. It worked for hudson, right up until he got banned. Out of curiosity, why is that you chose BlackGravel.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackGravel:
There are big, BIG differences here. Some of the main people on AD were some of the main people on Friends, Golden Girls etc. Writing multiple episodes.

Can you give me ONE DAMN EXAMPLE of 'Golden Girls', 'Boy Meets World' or 'Friends' humor in 'Arrested Development'?

quote:

It's not a Golden Girls plot, or setting, or approach (switch to single camera, erase laugh track), because they wanted to get the KIDS watching. But it's the same caliber writing (BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE. SAME PEOPLE. SAME. PEOPLE.)

Okay. It's not a 'Golden Girls' plot, setting or approach, but it's the same? You're still saying the jokes and humor would be the same or similar, but I don't remember critics hailing 'Golden Girls' like they did 'AD'. I don't remember any of these kinda characters in any of those shows.

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We're talking television comedy series, not one MOVIE against another, and I'm sure you could find similar dialogue, similar characterizations, plenty similar in those two movies (I haven't seen The Big Chill)

The same dialogue and characterizations in "Empire Strikes Back" and "The Big Chill"? I don't think you've seen "Empire Strikes Back" either. Besides, you keep mentioning "Wild Hogs". Why is it you can do it, but we can't? David Goyer is a very good example of a "hit and miss" screenwriter. Why couldn't there be "hit & miss" show writers? While most of the shows they worked on were crap to us, a few were hits for their time with their intended target audience.

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Are all these guys who wrote all this terrible stuff (most notably Wild Hogs (movie), Golden Girls, Friends, My Wife and Kids, Roseanne, Ladies Man, BOY MEETS WORLD, Will & Grace, (it goes on and on)) supposed to have suddenly become funny when they wrote for Arrested Development? How do you explain that?

I'll tell ya this much, I don't laugh because I'm supposed to, if that's what you're thinkin'. You seem to imagine that we are all small-minded people who just go with the flow. "Hey, the television is playing something! Let's all watch and laugh at the jokes and enjoy the pretty colors! He burned himself! Ha! Ha! She said she doesn't drink and then she did! Ha! Ha! He might be gay! Ha! Ha!" Yeah... right, the guy watchin' his $3,000 HDTV is gonna waste his time laughing at something that isn't really funny. C'mon! My answer to "how can they be funny now?" They found their niche or we were their target audience.

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I hated the show and thought it was awful long before I knew anything about its pedigree. I only did research on that because:

1. I wanted to come to an internet forum and try to piss off some fans.

2. I failed... miserably.

3. So all I can do is cop an attitude with everyone who replies.

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No one cares about any actual points or anything else. You all like the show so you attack, without any information or contradictory evidence. That's how most people operate, I suppose. It doesn't matter.

If you had any "actual points"... all you've pointed out is that you don't like the show. Doing "research" doesn't change anything. It's still only your opinion. You don't like the show because you don't enjoy the humor. 'The Office' is more your kinda thing. Okay. We get that. I don't really enjoy it, but I'm happy that someone can. I don't care what ya laugh at, why do you care what we do? Nobody needed you to look up the past gigs of the writers because we don't really care what they've done in the past. 'Arrested' was/is funny to us and there is no resume' you can show us that will suddenly make us stop finding it funny. What did you really think (or hope) would happen? That we'd sit back and say "Hey! You're right! They ARE crappy writers! Why were we ever laughing at such garbage? I'm burning my 'AD' DVDs RIGHT NOW! Thank you, BlackGravel for opening our eyes!" Riiiiiight.

You hate the show, so you chose to attack the fans without any real evidence in the first place. Bringing up shows that are NOTHING like this one is just ridiculous. You've been accusing us of not reading your posts, but you haven't really been reading ours.

It's kinda funny that La La Love Pixies brung up Hudson. I was actually having a few flashbacks as I was reading through this thread. Mike even made one of his comments his signature! I don't run into many trolls, do they all really "sound" the same or is this the Hud in disguise? We may never know...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Monkey_Boy,

Blackgravel, your argument is one of the weakest I have ever seen. Genuinely. I can understand some of the logic behind it - these writers did this, this wasn't funny, so this can't be either. I can understand why someone would think that, for like, a second, before realising how silly it is. someone else made this point perfectly, by pointing out that almost all artists/writers/yadada whose work we enjoy, have made something we may not enjoy so much. Hurwitz was writing for golden girls or whatever - it was a job. one of his earlier jobs if i remember correctly. he wasn't running the goddamn show, he had to fit a style and run with it. he had characters to work with he didn't create. he should not be judged for that.

anyway, that doesn't stop you from disliking arrested development obviously. i can agree with you on one thing - there are a fair degree of the 'i don't drink...let's go to the bar' style jokes in AD. however, very very few of them are as obvious as the example you posted. some are telegraphed, and not that funny. true. some are less expected and very well written. many jokes on ad are clear and unsubtle. this does not make them unfunny. many other jokes on AD are very subtle. Genuinely subtle, not just hidden in the background (the background jokes are also very funny imo).

but the thing i disagree with most heavily, and probably your most ridiculous point to my ears, was that the characters were unlikable, and that this was a fault. if you think that michael is supposed to be the character that you are supposed to identify with, i refuse to believe you have seen it all eight times. if you have, you are a muppet. michael is kind of an asshole. a relatable, believable asshole. this is obvious. he is smug. that is part of the humour. this is not a flaw in the writing, it's very deliberate. maybe you need comedies where you have a hero to pull for and 'identify with'. i don't blame you, a hell of a lot of people seem to want that. but a lot of people don't. there's nothing wrong with watching a bunch of people who have serious flaws. they all, even lindsay, have likable and identifiable characteristics too.

i'm not going to lie. i've not read every word you've written in here. but i read many of your posts fully. if i have overlooked something you've said, i apologise.

if you've watched the show 8 times, i ask one thing - what do you think is the most subtle joke on arrested development? you must know them inside out, and even someone who hated the show must admit that some bits are more subtle than others, as in every show. i just want to get a grasp on how fully you get the show, cos it baffles me that you still think michael is designed to be the likable straight man.

and also blackgravel, wtf. you say arrested development relies on these 'say one thing/do something completely contradictory' style jokes. while these are definitely apparent in ad (and often funny), in some kind of joke ratio/percentage thing they'd probably only be around about 5%. other styles of humour dominate. what is even more baffling, is that your beloved office us (a great show, not as consistently funny as ad), is rife with these kinds of jokes.

micheal - 'i think this is going to be great, because managing the warehouse is a very important part of my job. and i haven't been there in months'

again, a funny joke. these do not overwhelm the show, and they don't in ad.

i love the us office, a lot, but i love arrested development more. a better cast, sharper writing and far fewer dips in quality/flat out bad moments. and it's more rewatchable.

i can understand someone not really liking it that much maybe, but i don't get the people who call it abysmal at all. it's just seems flat out irrational, and frankly pretty whiney. the quality of the acting can't be denied, the direction is of a high quality, the writing is intricate and detailed and rewarding to those who really get into it. hell even the soundtrack is great.

quote:

Originally posted by bigphly:
i can agree with you on one thing - there are a fair degree of the 'i don't drink...let's go to the bar' style jokes in AD.

Actually, I don't think this particular joke is in the show at all. (Unless you count Tobias' "I'm not gay" and then he makes a remark that smacks of homosexuality. But that's just hilarious! ) The only reason I made mention of it in one of my posts is because Blackgravel did and I was poking fun at his "argument". I just got through watching all 3 seasons (this thread got me wanting to watch it all over again ) and I never heard Lucille say anything close to "I don't drink. Now give me a vodka!" From what I gather, she was actually PROUD of her "drinking problem". I do believe this PROVES - beyond the shadow of a doubt - that BG hasn't watched the show more than once! The shock!!!!!

i think it does crop up monkey boy, fairly often, but it's not simply from one character. it's usually in conversation, such as michael - 'i won't tolerate one more lie in this family' tobias - 'ah there's the woman i'm sexually attracted to'

because they're between two people they are more believable and funny. there are the odd example of them happening with only one person - lindsay 'i'm sick of all this self-medicating, if you need me i'll be in the bar'

but this is still funny, partly because they're just throwaways and aren't given a big buh-dum-tssh moment.

the drink thing was a bad example lol.

but i agree, i think blackgravel is overcompensating for sake of his argument claiming to have seen it all 8 times. if he hated it that much, no way he'd have watched it so much. i think he just wanted to pretend he's had 8 girlfriends to watch it with.

and much of it is subtle - i disagree with him heavily here. even some of the more obvious jokes are actually subtle - like when maeby smashes through the banana stand with the hammer, it looks stupid, until you notice after a series of similar events that in a family living off a business that builds houses, michael is the only one who can use a hammer.

similarly some of the political nods are fairly subtle, as when gob discovers the saddam agreement and does nothing but sit still for seven minutes.

and the hidden jokes can also be subtle, like the painting of the girl that has no face in the veil's home.

tons of other stuff is little or not played up - annyong quivering every time he hears and explosion in gob's magic act. george michael getting nervous and embarrased when a nurse switches on the tv and the music from les cousins dangereux can be heard.

and if you want a different kind of subtle humour, you can find huge amounts in the performances of the actors and their general interactions.

Memo to new Metacritic Members:

Blackgravel was banned.

That is all.

Actually I've seen him lurking around recently. Don't know if he's posted anything though

Guess he's decided to return after his month long ban after all.