Kill your television, stop wasting so much time talking about how horrible most of the programming is.

Gravel, you're diatribe against Arrested Development bears no truth to it. In fact the majority of your arguments, as put forth, are total bullshit, backed only by your intense hatred.

What you are suggesting is that a large number of intelligent people have been tricked into liking a horrible show, by bright clothing, "indie quirkness" and jaunty theme music. Humor me for a moment and let us break down this statement, smart people can be tricked into liking something if its bright, has a bit of indie quirkness (w/e the fuck that is) and its own theme music. Your idiocy is appalling.

You speak of how Arrested Development doesn't relate to reality, yet it's an absurdist show, pertaining to political scandals. From this you want to see archetypal characters from your life experience?

To keep this post somewhat succinct, if you honestly don't think Arrested Development is funny, you need to loosen the fuck up. Given the amount of crap that comes out of my TV, entertaining sitcoms without laugh tracks are welcome.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackGravel:

It's like someone shows me a video of little girls being raped and beaten to death, and I find that somehow I can't convince anyone that the content of the video is not morally sound. Not even people I know to be of a decent sort. That's what it's like.

LMAO. You really need to change your profile name to Zarathustra.

quote:

Gravel, you're diatribe against Arrested Development bears no truth to it. In fact the majority of your arguments, as put forth, are total bullshit, backed only by your intense hatred.

What you are suggesting is that a large number of intelligent people have been tricked into liking a horrible show, by bright clothing, "indie quirkness" and jaunty theme music. Humor me for a moment and let us break down this statement, smart people can be tricked into liking something if its bright, has a bit of indie quirkness (w/e the fuck that is) and its own theme music. Your idiocy is appalling.

Is this what happens when a middle-schooler gets drunk at the computer?

"Humor me for a moment and let us break down this statement, smart people can be tricked into liking something if its bright, has a bit of indie quirkness (w/e the fuck that is) and its own theme music. Your idiocy is appalling."

Kids, can you circle all the "I am potentially retarded" red flags in this excerpt?

He says...that...and then ends it with "your idiocy is appalling."

...wh-

You know what, fuck it. I must be insane, entertaining every intellectual flatline I encounter on here.

You can't engage anyone in a productive conversation when you can't drop the insults for one second.

To respond to your argument seriously, just for a minute, I think humor is a trick. If the trick works, I laugh. Now some people fall for some kinds of tricks and others for others. So honestly I don't give a shit whether it's genuine or not as long as the trick works on me. Then I call it good comedy.

quote:

Originally posted by V:
You can't engage anyone in a productive conversation when you can't drop the insults for one second.

Cut BlackGravel a little slack. It must be a huge burden to be the only intelligent person in a forum full of morons with bad taste.

Whoa, I think everyone needs to chill out here.

This site is called MetaCRITIC. The whole premise of it is obsessing over an analytical system of collating the entertainment gradings of people who get paid to do what BG just did in a more entertaining way. We talk about stuff we hate here all the time. Why? Because that's more fun than:

A: I like Seinfeld. Who else likes Seinfeld?
B: I also like Seinfeld. It was a very funny show.
C: I'm going to have to agree.
D: Ditto.
E: How 'bout them Beatles? Pretty good band, eh?

It was clear from the first line what his (assuming BG's a man) post was going to be, and there was nothing particularly offensive in it. I have no strong feelings for or against Arrested Development, but I enjoyed reading it. And it seems that I was not the only one, since others replied before this turned into a hatefest. This is a relatively small forum, and this is one of the smallest sections of it; TV discussion gets about 3 posts a month. He can spend his time posting whatever he wants so long as it is not redundant, spam, or personally hateful; I'm looking at the forum rules right now, and I don't see any violations (in the initial post). You know BlackGravel's MO by now, so if you don't like his posts, just skip them. No harm, no foul, right?

quote:

Originally posted by odysseyandoracle:
A: I like Seinfeld. Who else likes Seinfeld?
B: I also like Seinfeld. It was a very funny show.
C: I'm going to have to agree.
D: Ditto.
E: How 'bout them Beatles? Pretty good band, eh?

I agree that this scenario would be lame, but I like to think that there's a happy medium somewhere in-between. Surely people can offer views without writing 500 word essays about how great/crappy something is, then calling everyone who disagrees with it stupid.

BlackGravel's posts are sort of funny, in the sense that watching a belligerent drunk at the bar is funny, but after a while you wonder when somebody's gonna toss that drunk out on his ass.

It seems that BlackGravel has harnessed the power of quotation marks, capitals and italics and has used them as weapons to captivate Metacritic. Somehow he MAKES a 'big deal' out of seemingly benign topics and everybody FREAKS- wait, because they ARE freaks. . . right? (Then. Add. Emphasis.)
There appears to be a lot of emotion behind his words, is what I'm trying to say.

Nevertheless, people should be arguing his stance, not him personally.

I love AD and don't really understand such well thought-out hate. This could be a case of over-analysis. The show needs to be watched sequentially, and the humour builds upon the reoccuring jokes. I do agree with BG's first post where he says the show casts a spell, I think it does. It is so unlike a contemporary sitcom that you have to put yourself in the proper mood to appreciate it's subtlety (It is subtle. I think you're confusing its absurdity as being obvious). Also, I don't understand judging the quality of a show by the histories of its writers; didn't we all see Indiana Jones 4? Track records mean nothing when you can evaluate the actual product.

Oh, I know that I'm contributing very little, and that discussion means nothing; I just wanted to post.

My prediction for where this thread would end up turned out to be wrong after all (unfortunately).
I guessed it would be something like:
- I Hate AD
- I Like AD
- What? You should hate it.
- Well I don't
But unfortunately it took the equally predictable but lees pleasant route of:
- How can anyone like AD?
- I like AD
- You're stupid then
- No, you're stupid

I realize this is a frustrating debate for both sides but it doesn't have to be this personal and absolute. It's just an opinion, everyone has one, and they're all different. How lame would it be if everyone were in constant agreement over every topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Midnight:
How lame would it be if everyone were in constant agreement over every topic.

I agree.

Personally, I'm not understandin' the point of hating a show that was cancelled a few years ago. Apparently others didn't get it either and you all won by getting it off the air. So why continue to hate sumpthin' a few folks find enjoyment in? It's not like your analysis will suddenly wake us up and force us to realize that it's not the show that's smart, it's the people that are watchin' it who are stupid. I love the characters for the exact reasons you hate 'em. Michael had a right to be a tad smug. Honestly, you can love your family and still be disgusted by the things they do and think your better than them in some areas. (Are you actually saying he didn't have at least a tad more sense than the rest of his family?) Gob is great to me because of his "fake delivery, his hokey smile, his boneheaded "antics.""! Tobias was hilarious because he was just naive enough to say the most disgusting and inappropriate things without realizing it. (Of course "I just blue myself" made no sense, but what you aren't realizing is that it's TOBIAS that said it! This is a guy who made a buncha cards that said "anal-rapist" and was surprised that he was almost arrested!) Your description of Maeby is dead-on and it's WHY I liked her. I normally don't like kids who behave in such ways, but she pulled it off! And there was a reason for it, her behavior stems from having such hippie parents who didn't really pay attention to her. I loved Lucille and her Vodka jokes. In fact I loved EVERYBODY in the cast! They were each absolutely perfect for their respective roles.

Really, I know I'm never gonna change your mind just like you'll never change anyone else's, but people don't enjoy sumpthin' "just because". There's usually sumpthin' they see in it that no one else does. There's sumpthin' there that makes them laugh and I don't think it bothers ANYONE that they're enjoying a show that others couldn't. There are those that try to find reasons why others don't like it by saying things like: "It was too smart.", "Nobody knew when to laugh because of the lack of a laugh-track.", "They were too stupid." It just boils down to what makes YOU laugh. I mean, I HATE 'South Park'. I REALLY HATE IT. The voice talent sucks, the art is awful, the comedy isn't my cup of tea, and EVERYBODY around me can't stop talking about how much they laughed at the latest episode. All I can think about is "this crap is still on and 'Futurama' was cancelled after only 4 short seasons?!" But I'm not gonna start a thread just to say "HEY! I'M SMARTER THAN ALL OF YOU BECAUSE I CAN SEE THAT 'SOUTH PARK' SUCKS & YOU CAN'T AND 'FUTURAMA' WAS SOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER!" because I know people are gonna like what they're gonna like. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. The way I deal with it? I just don't watch the show and avoid conversations about it like the plague.

Besides, what's all this talk about needing to be smart to watch television? Ain't it refered to as "the idiot box"?

Monkey pwns Gravel in the battle of bold, caps and exclamation points.

quote:

Originally posted by EricG75:

quote:

Originally posted by V:
You can't engage anyone in a productive conversation when you can't drop the insults for one second.

Cut BlackGravel a little slack. It must be a huge burden to be the only intelligent person in a forum full of morons with bad taste.

I guess my question is, what kind of intelligent person hangs out in a forum with a bunch of bad taste morons?

Jesus?

I'm tired of all this fighting (not really).

Can't we all just agree that Jeff Foxworthy sucks ass-tampons...

and anyone that likes him really is stupid

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Angelo:
Monkey pwns Gravel in the battle of bold, caps and exclamation points.

Awwww, well you know... someone pointed out that he was getting good with the capitals and italics and I just had to show 'em what's what, dagnabit!

quote:

Originally posted by mymindsblank:
Can't we all just agree that Jeff Foxworthy sucks ass-tampons...

and anyone that likes him really is stupid

You're talkin' about my wife's side of the family! Things are now starting to make sense about their thought process! How did I not put 2 and 2 together?! Ya know they actually gave her another Jeff Foxworthy joke book for her birthday yesterday? How many redneck jokes can there possibly be?!

quote:

Originally posted by Monkey_Boy:

You're talkin' about my wife's side of the family! Things are now starting to make sense about their thought process! How did I not put 2 and 2 together?! Ya know they actually gave her another Jeff Foxworthy joke book for her birthday yesterday? How many redneck jokes can there possibly be?!

(loading my pistol)

If someone bought me a Jeff Foxworthy book as a "real" gift and not a gag, I would probably punch them in the pussygut. My family thinks ol' Foxworhty and his Blue Collar Comedy Tour cohorts are the greatest thing since Garth Brooks. ... ... !!!!

(shoots my dad's Garth Brooks Box set into smithereens)

I still don't feel any better...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mymindsblank,

Happy Birthday!

*hands mymindsblank a copy of Jeff Foxworthy's Redneck Dictionary: Words You Thought You Knew the Meaning of, and then waits for his genuine, appreciative response*

WOW that's a lot of replies.


I was thinking about it, and realized that one good way to describe AD is: "the polar opposite of the BBC Office in every way."

How many of you remember that semi-penultimate episode (near the end) when they have "Red Nose Day" and everyone dresses up in "wacky" costumes? Tim talks about how disgusted he is by it, and says

"It's the wackiness that I can't stand."

That's how I feel about this show. I think cynical, mistrustful people like Tim and I tend to have mostly contempt for the kind of lOoPy hIjiNKs that occur on Arrested Development. Because disliking the show tends to make one seem jaded and unfun, hipsters everywhere are falling all over themselves to declare their allegiance to it (kind of the same way rich white people are excessively nice to black folks they meet).

More to the point: I think the thing that puts me most off is how proud the show is of itself. Shows that I love, like Dr. Katz and Home Movies, are endlessly self-effacing and unassuming. They're utterly unpretentious. AD, on the other hand, seems constantly about to split open and soak viewers with its own self-satisfaction. They're just so proud of every sliver of cleverness, every play on words, every jaw-droppingly obvious jab at the easiest targets (war in Iraq, Reagan, etc. whatever).

Really it's that I can't stand most of all. It's kind of like the spoiled 12 year old who is home-schooled and talks about how he could beat up Hulk Hogan and how he doesn't need to go to normal school because he's already smarter than the teachers and how he's never scared of scary movies and how he could read when he was 1 (if you've ever had to hang out with a home-schooled kid, you know exactly what I'm talking about - they're literally like that. It's because they don't have other kids around to beat them up) and it's like, you kind of WANT to smack him around, or ask him an easy history or algebra question you know he won't know the answer to, or beat the shit out of him in Mario Kart 64. That's kind of how I feel about Arrested Development, as the writers parade around every joke like it's the crown gem of all comedy, when in most cases the best thing you could say about the bit is that they managed to finish writing it and get it on the air.

Did you know that there's actually a message on a truck or billboard (or something) in the background of one episode that says something close to "All good people watch the best show on television - Arrested Development!" And to that I say: get the fuck out of here. You can talk about how it's entertaining or funny to you and your friends, you can like it or even love it - that's fine. But don't come to me talking about it's "the best" or even "one of the best" shows on television, because it's not. It's not even close. It is Friends except with "Family" instead, written by the same good folks who have brought you throwaway comedy in various compromised sitcom settings for twenty years, and with bargain bin conservative-bashing thrown in to earn points with the critics. That's all.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackGravel:

Did you know that there's actually a message on a truck or billboard (or something) in the background of one episode that says something close to "All good people watch the best show on television - Arrested Development!" And to that I say: get the fuck out of here. You can talk about how it's entertaining or funny to you and your friends, you can like it or even love it - that's fine. But don't come to me talking about it's "the best" or even "one of the best" shows on television, because it's not. It's not even close.

Well, it is a comedy. I do believe they make jokes on those types of shows. Ever stop and think maybe that was one of them?

Also, I don't know if I feel like the show is proud of itself at all. I think that has more to do with you hating the show than anything else. There isn't really anything blatantly obvious that they are (feel free to give examples though).

And Friends? No.