[/QUOTE]
It's actually possible I may have stayed away from My Left Foot which would be a good reason for me not remembering Daniel Day-Lewis in the movie. It's also possible that I have a bias when it comes to performances by actors of individuals with mental or physical disabilities. So often such performances come automatically with some form of pity or extra points for how supposedly we are supposed to feel extra tenderness in order to make ourselves feel better and that we have made a politically correct choice in our decision-making process otherwise we can be accused of discrimination and labeled as callous and uncaring. It's a difficult ethical and aesthetic issue when it comes to the presentation of people that are out of the set norms and boundaries of the majority of the population.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying it's easy to play a mentally handicapped person? I understand the sympathy vote, but consider actors who have played such a role well (Day-Lewis, Dustin Hoffman) compared to those who haven't (Johnny Knoxville). Yes, I know Knoxville is a mediocre actor, but still, not everyone can do it, and the one's who usually play such a role are superior actors.

quote:

fatties Slacker First Class
Posted 24 February 2008 09:31 AM

So you're saying it's easy to play a mentally handicapped person? I understand the sympathy vote, but consider actors who have played such a role well (Day-Lewis, Dustin Hoffman) compared to those who haven't (Johnny Knoxville). Yes, I know Knoxville is a mediocre actor, but still, not everyone can do it, and the one's who usually play such a role are superior actors.

A good observation. It's difficult sometimes to distinquish between the acting and the script. A good example is a recent movie I came across - He Was A Quiet Man (2007), about a disgruntled employee in one of the best performances of the year. Christian Slater brought to his performance a tremendously sensitive depiction of mental illness with a lot of silent behavioral expressions and idiosyncrasies. Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Man (2001) was helped by a wonderful script that provided the split perceptual experiences so necessary to demonstrate this mental illness. Cliff Robertson in Charly (1968) who won the Best Actor Oscar for this role. Yet there was an emotional component hard to ignore...about loss and suffering. A sensitive portrayal of mental disability was provided in Lars and the Real Girl (2007) in which it is very difficult to determine how much it was the script or Ryan Gosling's performance that lent the authentic experience - not ever overplayed for dramatic effect or manipulating the audience.

First of all I have to put in another good word for Daniel Day-lewis, I can't believe he even came up on this topic.
Secondly to clarify the people I'm about to select aren't necessarily bad they are just not nearly as good as advertised. Here they go:
Jim Carrey (yes he was good in eternal sunshine and Truman show but not enough to redeem a lifetime of bad movies) and Ben Stiller come to mind.
And to clarify I have nothing against comedy it just really bugs me that they make so many bad movies while much funnier people (I'm sure we all know plenty) never get a chance for a big role.

quote:

Midnight Slacker
Posted 24 February 2008 04:42 PM

Secondly to clarify the people I'm about to select aren't necessarily bad they are just not nearly as good as advertised. Here they go:
Jim Carrey (yes he was good in eternal sunshine and Truman show but not enough to redeem a lifetime of bad movies) and Ben Stiller come to mind.
And to clarify I have nothing against comedy it just really bugs me that they make so many bad movies while much funnier people (I'm sure we all know plenty) never get a chance for a big role.

Because comedy in my opinion is so much more difficult than drama that one is bound to see more bad comedy than bad drama. As for Jim Carrey, because comedy is so difficult to get right, it takes time to hone one's art and I do believe that great actors can be great actors even if their past is littered with terrible movies. Sometimes it's not the acting, sometimes its the script, the director, the editing. Comedy isn't easy, a lot can go wrong. For me, an actor who can make two or more good movies has redeemed themselves from their past. People evolve, change, grow...I look for what they have done, can do, and look at their best not their worst in judging the performing artist.

Making people laugh is a lot easier then making people cry.

An actor like Ben Stiller has made millions playing the same character over and over again in many many movies.

Compared to an actor like Phillip Seymour Hoffman, actually I'm gonna stop there because Ben Stiller's can't hold a candle to Phillip Seymour Hoffman when it comes to acting.

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Liberalkid Participant
Posted 25 February 2008 09:06 AM
Making people laugh is a lot easier then making people cry.

An actor like Ben Stiller has made millions playing the same character over and over again in many many movies.

Compared to an actor like Phillip Seymour Hoffman, actually I'm gonna stop there because Ben Stiller's can't hold a candle to Phillip Seymour Hoffman when it comes to acting.

I've taken a year of acting at the state University where I live. It's my experience that it's much easier to play drama, most people who perform can do it. But when it comes to comedy - it's much more difficult than it looks. The timing, the expression...that's why there's the earlier comment about how many bad comedy movies there are out there. It's not easy. The only reason that people laugh is you have some gifted and talented comedians. It's not something that can be easily taught like drama. Comedy and the Academy Awards has been a sore spot for a number of us because it's often overlooked as a serious movie genre. An actor who can perform both drama and comedy is way above those actors who can only do one or the other. Most dramatic actors can't do comedy very well while the cross-over from comedy to drama is much more accessible. So comedians who cross over to drama is a credible and commendable feat. It's the dramatic actors who eventually can do comedy that's incredible, but usually it's considered a step down not up, unfortunately. That's the way humor works - it's just not taken seriously (pun intended).

Not only is there the common misconception that drama is more difficult than comedy, but that comedy somehow isn't high art like drama. A lot of people whined about Juno and Little Miss Sunshine getting Best Picture nominations in the past couple of years, simply because they weren't heavy, dramatic, epic films. The last Best Picture winner that could be classified as a comedy, 1998's Shakespeare in Love is routinely mentioned as one of the worst films to receive an Oscar.

quote:

Originally posted by EricG75:
The last Best Picture winner that could be classified as a comedy, 1998's Shakespeare in Love is routinely mentioned as one of the worst films to receive an Oscar.

In my opinion, I consider it one of the worst Best Picture winners because the best film of that year was neither that one, nor Saving Private Ryan, but the stunning, heart-wrenching, Life is Beautiful. I felt that that was the clear best picture but that would have been too much of an upset.

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FragileKidA "Forum Moderator"
Super Bad-Ass Jedi
Posted 25 February 2008 12:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by EricG75:
The last Best Picture winner that could be classified as a comedy, 1998's Shakespeare in Love is routinely mentioned as one of the worst films to receive an Oscar.
In my opinion, I consider it one of the worst Best Picture winners because the best film of that year was neither that one, nor Saving Private Ryan, but the stunning, heart-wrenching, Life is Beautiful. I felt that that was the clear best picture but that would have been too much of an upset.

Life Is Beautiful was over-rated in my opinion. It was an interesting movie in that it really was two movies in one - a fascinating light, comedy that descended into a dark and somewhat unbelievable drama, if I recall correctly. Roberto Benighi, who won the Best Actor Oscar Award (1998) is a good example where a comedian didn't successfully transition to drama in this movie. Giorgio Cantarini's role just seemed unbelievable (correction) during the last half of the movie - the script calling more for exaggerated dramatization than exciting realism. Personally, I felt either Saving Private Ryan or Shakespeare in Love were quite deserving of Best Picture. Along with Elizabeth and The Thin Red Line, it was tough Best Picture selection year. Again with Life Is Beautiful, there is the sympathy vote for issues that we as human beings feel guilty for and believe that we must keep reminding ourselves about inhumanity against humanity. But we don't necessarily have to take the extra step of having to recognize this important human value when deciding on the quality of movies for Best Picture.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tabuno,

I thought '98 had a lame list of Best Pic nominees, honestly. If forced to choose, I'd take Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line (a superior WWII flick to Saving Private Ryan), but I think there were some better films, including The Truman Show and Out Of Sight, that didn't even get nominated.

Of course, the real crime of the '98 Oscars was that Aerosmith's "I Don't Wanna Miss A Thing" from Armageddon didn't win best song. I know you agree with me, FKA.

quote:

Originally posted by Midnight:
Here they go:
Jim Carrey (yes he was good in eternal sunshine and Truman show but not enough to redeem a lifetime of bad movies) and Ben Stiller come to mind.
And to clarify I have nothing against comedy it just really bugs me that they make so many bad movies while much funnier people (I'm sure we all know plenty) never get a chance for a big role.

Much funnier people than Jim Carrey and Ben Stiller? I have no idea what you consider good comedy, but these two comedic geniuses have made some of, if not the best comedies of all time. I have no idea how you can consider yourself a fan of comedy and then diss Carrey and Stiller. These guys have taken comedy to a whole nother level.

"Dumb & Dumber", "The Cable Guy", "Ace Ventura", and "Bruce Almighty" are classics. Not to mention Carrey's superb job of depicticing Andy Kaufman in "Man in the Moon". And he was brilliant during his "In living Color" years.

And Stiller. "Flirting with Disaster", "The Cable Guy", "Zoolander", "There's Something About Mary", "Meet the Parents", "The Royal Tenenbaums", "Along Came Polly" and "Dodgeball" are all classics.

These two guys are masters of their craft. Other than Will Farrell and Mike Meyers, Stiller and Carrey are the best in the business at delivering comedic roles.

So like I said, I don't know what kind of comedy you're into, but if you can't appreciate the above mentioned movies for the classics they are, I wonder if you know comedy that well at all.

quote:

Originally posted by hudson:

quote:

Originally posted by Midnight:
Here they go:
Jim Carrey (yes he was good in eternal sunshine and Truman show but not enough to redeem a lifetime of bad movies) and Ben Stiller come to mind.
And to clarify I have nothing against comedy it just really bugs me that they make so many bad movies while much funnier people (I'm sure we all know plenty) never get a chance for a big role.

Much funnier people than Jim Carrey and Ben Stiller? I have no idea what you consider good comedy, but these two comedic geniuses have made some of, if not the best comedies of all time. I have no idea how you can consider yourself a fan of comedy and then diss Carrey and Stiller. These guys have taken comedy to a whole nother level.

"Dumb & Dumber", "The Cable Guy", "Ace Ventura", and "Bruce Almighty" are classics. Not to mention Carrey's superb job of depicticing Andy Kaufman in "Man in the Moon". And he was brilliant during his "In living Color" years.

And Stiller. "Flirting with Disaster", "The Cable Guy", "Zoolander", "There's Something About Mary", "Meet the Parents", "The Royal Tenenbaums", "Along Came Polly" and "Dodgeball" are all classics.

These two guys are masters of their craft. Other than Will Farrell and Mike Meyers, Stiller and Carrey are the best in the business at delivering comedic roles.

So like I said, I don't know what kind of comedy you're into, but if you can't appreciate the above mentioned movies for the classics they are, I wonder if you know comedy that well at all.

Will Ferrell plays the same role in almost every film. You're probably the first person I've ever heard proclaim "The Cable Guy" and "Bruce Almighty" classics.
As for Stiller, he was funny in Zoolander, but I find Dodgeball to be one of the most juvenile comedies made this decade.

You seemed to segregate the best comedy into material that's be released since the 90's. What about Rodney Dangerfield? Or Steve Martin in The Jerk? Phil Hartman? John Belushi? Dana Carvey? I'd take all those guys over who you mentioned.

Weren't we just talking about Eric Roberts?!?

I think The Cable Guy is a very underrated film. A lot of Jim Carrey "fans" were rubbed the wrong way because they were so used to seeing him as Ace Ventura, and didn't know what to make of the dark turn. I still think one of the funniest scenes in recent movie history is he and Matthew Broderick fighting at Medieval Times while Carrey likens it to Kirk vs. Spock. Of course, if you haven't seen that episode of Star Trek, you may not get it. The karaoke scene with him singing the Altamont version of "Somebody to Love" is also genius.

One of my favorite Ben Stiller roles of the past ten years would have to be as Mr. Furious in Mystery Men.

I don't know about Dana Carvey. The only film I can remember him in besides the two Wayne's World movies is Oppurtunity Knocks, which is an ok flick. I think of Phil Hartman as a television actor, although one of my favorite roles of his is as the Alcatraz tour guide John "Vicky" Johnson in So I Married An Ax Murderer.

If we're going back a little, I'd have to mention Peter Sellers as a comedic genius.

quote:

EricG75 "Forum Moderator"
Jedi Posted 25 February 2008 01:06 PM

I thought '98 had a lame list of Best Pic nominees, honestly. If forced to choose, I'd take Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line (a superior WWII flick to Saving Private Ryan), but I think there were some better films, including The Truman Show and Out Of Sight, that didn't even get nominated.

It's hard to remember back to 1998. The Thin Red Line as I recall was a more substantive, character-driven, almost artistic military movie. It was a heavy-height when it come to layered and densely rich cinematography and characterization. The Truman Show was an excellent and innovative, challenging, Jim Carrey break out movie. If it had been nominated for Best Picture, I wouldn't have minded at all. Two other movies I really enjoyed from 1998 were Sliding Doors, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels

quote:

Originally posted by tabuno:

quote:

EricG75 "Forum Moderator"
Jedi Posted 25 February 2008 01:06 PM

I thought '98 had a lame list of Best Pic nominees, honestly. If forced to choose, I'd take Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line (a superior WWII flick to Saving Private Ryan), but I think there were some better films, including The Truman Show and Out Of Sight, that didn't even get nominated.

It's hard to remember back to 1998. The Thin Red Line as I recall was a more substantive, character-driven, almost artistic military movie. It was a heavy-height when it come to layered and densely rich cinematography and characterization. The Truman Show was an excellent and innovative, challenging, Jim Carrey break out movie. If it had been nominated for Best Picture, I wouldn't have minded at all. Two other movies I really enjoyed from 1998 were Sliding Doors, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels

All four movies you mentioned, tab, are among my favorites of the year. I remember at the time rooting for The Thin Red Line. Since then, I think The Truman Show has aged the best for me, although I really like Shakespeare In Love, and can't find too much fault with it's winning.

Saving Private Ryan should have won over Shakespeare in Love in my opinion, but I haven't seen the other nominees. Isn't Roberto Benigni the same guy who made the awful Tiger and the Snow and the vomit-inducing Pinocchio remake? How good could Life is Beautiful have even been? (It didn't even get favorable critical reviews, which is normally an okay indicator on the artistic quality of a movie)

Getting back to the original topic. Its really hard to determine what overrated means. I think Ben Kingsley is really overrated. I mean, Gandhi was good, but I really didn't like him in the past few movies I've seen him in. I don't think he picks good films at all.

quote:

Samikay Slacker
Posted 29 February 2008 09:15 PM

I think Ben Kingsley is really overrated. I mean, Gandhi was good, but I really didn't like him in the past few movies I've seen him in. I don't think he picks good films at all.

Fascinating actor to comment on here. Sir Ben Kingsley's performances have been for the most part respectable.

2007: You Kill Me, Sir Kingsley's plays the role of an alcoholic assassin in a dark comedy. As I've mentioned elsewhere, to be able to be both a dramatic actor and a comedic actor, requires talent. For Sir Kingsley to be able to transition to comedy is impressive.

2006: Lucky Number Slevin, Sir Kingsley plays a serious criminal syndicate boss opposite Morgan Freeman, in a credible performance in a well received movie.

2005: Blood Rayne, Sir Kingsley somehow I will grant you ended up in this movie, one of the worst films of 2005. His performance was terrible.

2003: House of Sand and Fog, Sir Kingsley is given a superb opportunity to play a foreigner who by happenstance ends up in a house that Jennifer Connelly's role wants back. This was an intense, character-driven movie with excellent performances by both actors. Nominated for Oscar Best Actor in a Leading Role.

2000: Sexy Beast, Sir Kingsley is an almost psychotic gangster, again in a role he is familiar with, but bumps it up a notch here. Nominated for an Oscar Best Actor in Supporting Role.

I've seen Sir Kingsley in a number of other movies, without much to recall from them. It's hard to really unconditionally that Sir Kingsley is a superstar, heavy-weight. Yes, he's performed in some terrible movies. And there remains a question about his ability over a range of talent over a broader spectrum of roles. However, it appears to me that his recognition and level of appreciation by his colleagues and the public appear to be close to what one might consider his abilities and talents that he's so far demonstrated.

I am not sure if this topic is a mainstream or critical overrated so I am going to go with the former. I think (until he shows me something substantial) Jason Statham is highly overrated. He might have the chops to pull something off, but he is going to need Scorsese or Mahn to turn him into a real actor (IMO).

quote:

sayyes Slacker
Posted 15 April 2008 09:54 PM

I am not sure if this topic is a mainstream or critical overrated so I am going to go with the former. I think (until he shows me something substantial) Jason Statham is highly overrated. He might have the chops to pull something off, but he is going to need Scorsese or Mahn to turn him into a real actor (IMO).

Fascinating actor to select as over-rated mainstream. I don't know if I would use the word over-rated rather than untested. I liked him in The Bank Job (2008) but as I suspect you might agree, he hasn't had an opportunity to play many different roles. Personally he comes across as a character actor that's been stuck in similar roles. I like what he's done, I like his persona. But his mainstream credit comes from his action-movie work and as such his claim to fame is likely based on the same target audience that enjoys such action. I haven't heard much in the way of critical ratings...so I'm guessing his rating as an actor is probably just as he has been thought of an actor who can propel action movies, no more and no less until proven otherwise. I'm interested now that you brought up his name to see what he can do critically.

Well, Statham's biggest claims to fame so far are in Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch, so in that way, I believe he was picked in response to tabuno's post about Ben Kingsley's recent crime flix. True, Statham never played Gandhi, but Ben Kingsley only played him once.