Ive recently discovered that I really like country music (we dont really get much of it here though) and I am looking to boost the size of my country record CD selection. Any suggestions?

You're off to a great start with Loretta Lynn's Van Lear Rose. Not only is it a great album, but Jack White has kept true to essense of her sound, which means if you like it, your exploration of other great country artists will be a very satisfying experience indeed.

This by no means a comprehensive list, it's only intended to direct you to some of the greats that I think you will enjoy. Unlike most rock and jazz recommendations I would make, this list leans heavily on compilations (I tried to keep it to no more than two CD sets), but I think that has as much to do with the role of singles in the early history of country music and the tendency of artists to skip from label to label. In all, though, I think these are some great CDs that would be at home in any good library of country music:

Hank Williams _40 Greatest Hits_ (Mercury)
The seminal figure in country music. Hank took country music out of the honky tonk and into the concert hall. There were great artists before him, but everybody followed owes him a musical debt. He didn't just chance the face of country music before his death at 29, but of all music to come. His influence as a singer, songwriter, and perfomer extends well beyond country music and into pop and rock, blue, soul, and even jazz as well. You might one day trade up this single disc for one of the box sets, but it's a great place to start.

George Jones _The Essential George Jones: The Spirit of Country_ (Epic)
George Jones evolution as a performer suggests the way Johnny Cash would reinvent himself many years later. He comes out of Hank Williams, but embraced countrypolitan to become argueably the greatest male vocalist in the history of the music. His duets with Tammy Wynette are legendary. This collection covers everything from the early years to some really underrated later performances including the strangely overlooked gem "Who's Gonna Fill Their Shoes."

Patsy Cline _12 Greatest Hits_ (MCA)
If George Jones is the greatest male vocalist country has ever known, Patsy Cline was the greatest female vocalist, though I honestly think her gifts far transcended the genre. She was the queen of the Nashville sound that is most widely associates with country music today. There are multi CD collections that tell the story more completely, but it would be hard to tell the story better than this single CD gem.

Johnny Cash _At Folsom Prison_ (Sony)
Anybody who has kept up with music in the past decade knows the remarkable way that Johnny Cash reinvented himself, so a thumbnail history is likely redundant. This is actually the hardest recommendation because it leaves out so much that is essential about Johnny Cash ("Sunday Morning Coming Down," for example), but at the same time nothing better defined him like the prison concerts. Lots of country artists have sung eloquently about loss and sorry, but nobody sang about redemption like Johnny Cash, and nobody showed their belief in its power like he did performing behind prison walls.

Merle Haggard _40 #1 Hits_ (Capitol)
The most important and influential singer/songwriter in country music after Hank Williams and easily just as hard a life. It is our good fortune that Merle has been with us much longer than Hank. This collection was just released this year and I cannot believe how complete it is. It draws from pretty much Merle's entire career and most of the major labels he worked with at one time or another. I'm particularly happy with the inclusion of his 80s duet with Willie Nelson of Townes Van Zandt's "Pancho & Lefty," which was a truly classic track from a largely forgetable album.

Wow. That hardly scratches the surface, but you won't go wrong with a one of them, in my opinion. If you check any of them out, I hope you'll let us know what you think.

Now Playing: NPR's Weekend Edition

Ray Charles - Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music

All good suggestions so far. Definately check out Ween's 12 Golden Country Greats! Recorded with old-school Nashville session players. Also The Lucky Stars(on Ipecac label), and Luther Wright and The Wrongs-Rebuild the Wall. Rebuild the Wall is an amazing album!

This is a bluegrass suggesstion, but it's hard to live without Will the Circle Be Unbroken by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (I'd only mess with the first volume).
Also, Rhino has a killer Sun years disc for Johnny Cash.

I'm certainly no authority, but some country albums that I really like are:

Byrds - Sweetheart of the Rodeo
Gram Parsons - GP/Grevious Angel
Bob Dylan - Nashville Skyline
Whiskeytown - Faithless Street
Ryan Adams - Heartbreaker

ps: some of these might be about as folk as they are country, and i'm not sure how "classic" they could really be considered; however, i do really love these records a lot and feel they represent what makes country music great.

quote:

---

Originally posted by St. Ides Heaven:
Byrds - Sweetheart of the Rodeo
Gram Parsons - GP/Grevious Angel
Bob Dylan - Nashville Skyline
Whiskeytown - Faithless Street
Ryan Adams - Heartbreaker

...i do really love these records a lot and feel they represent what makes country music great.

---

Agreed.

Hey, what the hell has happened to country music? Van Lear Rose is fantastic, but there doesn't seem to be much else. When people talk about good country, they talk about old country or alt-rockers who play country-esque stuff.
Is this genre dead or dying?

Ray Charles, The Byrds, Graham Parsons, Bob Dylan, Whiskeytown, Ryan Adams, The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band...there's not a one of those albums that could be construed as anything other than country influenced or country fusion and certainly not classic country.

So, what is it you say, St. Ides Heaven? You feel they represent what makes country music great?

Damn straight.

That's your answer TripperRyder. When (knowledgeable) people talk about good country they do talk about the classics and a lot of the alt country artists because honestly that's where the heart and soul of the music is today

When The Byrds did it, it was called "country rock." When The Dirt Band did it, it was called "progressive country." With Uncle Tupelo it was "alt country." One way or another each and every time it has had more and more to do with what once made country music great than the watered down middle of the road pop that is passed off as country by the robber barons who have taken over Music Row.

Hank Williams cut his teeth on the blues. Jack White carries his legacy a helluva lot further than Toby Keith.

As long as smart, open minded people like you continue to wonder where this music has come from and where that legacy can be taken next, the genre will be alive and well no matter what CMT and the Billboard charts indicate to the contrary.

Sorry, I'll step off the soapbox now, but honestly without people with ears like yours, there wouldn't be a place for an album like Van Lear Rose and I, for one, am grateful for the lot of you.

Now Playing: The West Wing on Bravo, "Bartlet for America." Talk about carrying on the heart and soul of something that was once good and right, but I'm pontificating again, aren't I?

The good thing about buying country music is that CDs are so cheap compared to anything else with the exception of classical.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LinnTate:
That's your answer TripperRyder. When (knowledgeable) people talk about good country they do talk about the classics and a lot of the alt country artists because honestly that's where the heart and soul of the music is today

...

As long as smart, open minded people like you continue to wonder where this music has come from and where that legacy can be taken next, the genre will be alive and well no matter what CMT and the Billboard charts indicate to the contrary.

Sorry, I'll step off the soapbox now, but honestly without people with ears like yours, there wouldn't be a place for an album like Van Lear Rose and I, for one, am grateful for the lot of you.

---

Jesus, that's some high horse you're riding on. I'm glad real country fans like you are around to save me from the likes of Alan Jackson and George Strait. I hadn't realized that it's impossible to enjoy both classic and contemporary country music.

Thanks for setting me straight!

An auspicious entrance, mte72.

Since it's clear sarcasm isn't your forte, I have another suggestion. George Strait and Alan Jackson are two excellent examples of the sort of MOR-disguised-as-country that has been dominating the big four labels and major radio since the 80s. Given the work of artists such as Lyle Lovett, Rosie Flores, and Iris DeMent, to name only a few, it IS impossible (for me, at least) to enjoy contemporary country, which is by and large over-produced to the point of losing any aural character and lyrically panders to the lowest common denominator.

So, set me straight. What exactly am I missing?

Now Playing: The 58th Annual Tony Awards. Damn! Hugh Jackman sure can sing!

I'd hardly call George Strait (especially his '80s output) or Alan Jackson MOR. Their songs are often sentimental (when has that kept a country song from being a classic?), and lately they've both been more slickly produced than they used to be, but they're both pretty clearly in the lineage of honky tonk. Jackson, especially. He had a number one hit with a cover of George Jones' "Tall, Tall Trees," and he's always sounded like Jones. Strait's more of a cowboy, but there's plenty of good honky tonk on his first few albums.

I guess my principal objection to complaints about the current state of the Nashville music industry is that those complaints ignore that country music has never really been "authentic." It's always been commercial, all the way back to AP Carter claiming songwriting credits for his updated and radio-friendly arrangements of traditional songs, and it's never been a monolithic thing that any single artist can claim a pure fealty to. There are all kinds of threads running through the evolution of country music, and maybe Lyle Lovett can lay claim to some sort of allegiance to one or more of them. But that doesn't necessarily exclude others from being "real" country music. I mean, it's not like Hank Williams was playing "authentic" roots music. The fact that steel guitar was so prominent in honky tonk in the '50s was a startling departure. It set honky tonk apart from more traditional folk music, which used the fiddle instead.

In fact, I think much of the most successful country music -- or at least what I like -- has succeeded precisely because of its artifice. The established forms of drinking and cheating songs give singers a framework to sing about some pretty basic themes -- loneliness, love, desparation. How well they work depends on each performance, and on the song. And the listener. But I think several contemporary artists have done good work.

I'm sorry for being pissy in my first post. But, as the length of this reply indicates, I feel pretty strongly about this.

No apologies necessary. I was actually sorry for being a bit snarky in my reply (and thought about an edit) because I was hoping you would come back to answer my question.

I took deliberately shaky ground regarding George Strait and Alan Jackson. They are both too slick and for my taste, but I'd be dishonest if I argued against their lineage from honky tonk. I think others do it better, but I certainly cede the point that there is quality in their work.

quote:

---

I guess my principal objection to complaints about the current state of the Nashville music industry is that those complaints ignore that country music has never really been "authentic." It's always been commercial, all the way back to AP Carter claiming songwriting credits for his updated and radio-friendly arrangements of traditional songs, and it's never been a monolithic thing that any single artist can claim a pure fealty to. There are all kinds of threads running through the evolution of country music, and maybe Lyle Lovett can lay claim to some sort of allegiance to one or more of them. But that doesn't necessarily exclude others from being "real" country music. I mean, it's not like Hank Williams was playing "authentic" roots music. The fact that steel guitar was so prominent in honky tonk in the '50s was a startling departure. It set honky tonk apart from more traditional folk music, which used the fiddle instead.

---

There is nothing about any of that with which I disagree and no small admiration on my part for your eloquence. My beef earlier in the thread is not with a perception that some artists are more authentic than others. Your argument to the contrary is not only dead on for country music as well as variety of other generes, but points at the essence of what made Hank Williams a seminal figure in the music.

My frustration is with a Nashville music scene that, I believe, values fashion over its own heritage. I would point, for example, to Ricky Skaggs who championed the country tradition in his music, yet had a hard time maintaining a deal with a label through the 90s.

quote:

---

In fact, I think much of the most successful country music -- or at least what I like -- has succeeded precisely because of its artifice. The established forms of drinking and cheating songs give singers a framework to sing about some pretty basic themes -- loneliness, love, desparation. How well they work depends on each performance, and on the song. And the listener. But I think several contemporary artists have done good work.

---

This is an intriguing take on formalism. My kneejerk reaction is to disagree and, in fact, I made a contrary argument to a friend this morning regarding the current state of jazz, but now I'm not so sure. At the very least, I'm curious to see your list of serveral contemporary artists who have done good work. I'd like to know what I'm missing.

An auspicious entrance, indeed. That was meant in all sincerity.

Now Playing: Not a thing. I really need a set of wireless headphones for late night posting.

I agree that Ricky Skaggs got screwed. But, frankly, it's a pretty typical music industry story, not just a Nashville one. And just because he couldn't sell what he was doing because something else was riding the charts doesn't necessarily make that something else bad. It makes the dumbasses who couldn't see beyond the next big cowboy hat dumbasses. I don't think Nashville is any more short-sighted than the industry in general, though that isn't saying much. But I'd prefer that country music, at least part of it, keep moving forward instead of being too focused on the past, or on some abstract idea of what it's supposed to be. And if that means some dumb experiments along the way, that's better than another version of "Lost Highway," if you ask me. (Besides, I think the more traditional wing of alt-country -- the honky tonk bands, Junior Brown -- is just as corny as the worst of country radio.)

I don't think there is a single country tradition. A lot of what was once surprising and controversial and decidedly not traditional -- the steel guitar, electric guitar, bass, bluegrass, piano, yodeling, bass drums, countrypolitan -- seems traditional to us now. I don't think it matters if something lives up to an ideal standard of what country music is. It matters if it moves someone in some way -- a deep emotional impact, sure, or just to dance or sing along or laugh.

A short list: George Strait, Alan Jackson, "Smoke Rings in the Dark" by Gary Allan, "The Restless Kind" by Travis Tritt (especially "Sack Full of Stones" and "Where Corn Don't Grow"), scattered tracks by Joe Diffie, Mark Chesnutt, Clint Black, Trisha Yearwood, even Garth Brooks, though I think he's the least talented singer of any of these. I really, really like Alan Jackson's Greatest Hits right now, mostly because of its slick production. It's got solid songs, he has a great voice, the backing musicians are top-notch, and it's fun. But it's also incredibly professional. It's the same reason I love Jay-Z's Black Album. On both, there's no doubt that he's doing it because it's his job, but that still doesn't mean he doesn't love his job.

A lot of that list goes back 10 years or more, which shows what I know. But thanks for listening!

And, of course, "Van Lear Rose" rocks. Oh, and definitely try "I Can Still Make Cheyenne" by George Strait. It's got a fiddle part that would fit on a Mekons album.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mte72,

quote:

---

Originally posted by mte72:
I agree that Ricky Skaggs got screwed. But, frankly, it's a pretty typical music industry story, not just a Nashville one. And just because he couldn't sell what he was doing because something else was riding the charts doesn't necessarily make that something else bad. It makes the dumbasses who couldn't see beyond the next big cowboy hat dumbasses.

---

I'd be inclined to cite further examples than just Ricky Skaggs were it not for the fact that if I replace "big cowboy hat" with "Armani suit" I'm talking about the same sad story in the world of jazz, which only goes to prove your point further.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mte72:
I don't think Nashville is any more short-sighted than the industry in general, though that isn't saying much. But I'd prefer that country music, at least part of it, keep moving forward instead of being too focused on the past, or on some abstract idea of what it's supposed to be. And if that means some dumb experiments along the way, that's better than another version of "Lost Highway," if you ask me. (Besides, I think the more traditional wing of alt-country -- the honky tonk bands, Junior Brown -- is just as corny as the worst of country radio.)

---

I cannot agree more. If a dozen dumb experiments yield one thing that lasts, it is worth it. I wrote in the introductions thread that what interests me most in music is what's next. If you're calling me on being less than receptive to an entire movement in country, then I'd best make sure I'm giving it a fair shake, which certainly extends further than commercial radio and CMT.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mte72:
(Besides, I think the more traditional wing of alt-country -- the honky tonk bands, Junior Brown -- is just as corny as the worst of country radio.)

---

I'd add The Mavericks to that list, but will defend the first couple of BR5-49 albums to the end.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mte72:
I really, really like Alan Jackson's Greatest Hits right now, mostly because of its slick production. It's got solid songs, he has a great voice, the backing musicians are top-notch, and it's fun. But it's also incredibly professional. It's the same reason I love Jay-Z's Black Album. On both, there's no doubt that he's doing it because it's his job, but that still doesn't mean he doesn't love his job.

---

See, here is probably our main point of contention. The incredibly slick production (i.e. The Mavericks) tends to drive me away, but that's an aesthetic argument, isn't it and it's awfully hard to fault somebody else's aesthetics.

Personally, I think we agree more than we disagree about the state of the genre, but I am guilty of painting the contemporary country scene with an excessively broad brush. It can certainly have been construed as dragging pretty much all of the new traditionalists you list through the mud as well, which was not my intention.

Thanks for the copious suggestions. You're right about the fiddle part in George Strait's "I Can Still Make Cheyenne." I wonder if you've heard any of Alejandro Escovedo's work? I suspect you would love his string arangements.

I have about ninety tracks cued up on random play. It's going to be hard for me to warm up to Clint Black's production values, I think, but if I ever slight Mark Chesnutt, it would be appropriate to sit me in a corner with a funnel on my head ("Talking to Hank").

I'm off to Chicago tomorrow evening, but I'll try to plow through this playlist at least once before I go.

Now Playing: "Inside Out" Trish Yearwood _Inside Out_ (MCA Nashville) - Again, it's a bit overproduced for my taste, but given your love of top-notch studio musicians, I can see your point. I have a friend who has worked as a drummer in Nashville for the past decade or more and we've argued many of these points as well.

I think I've undermined my own argument a little with that list. Dammit.

All right. I'm a little embarrassed to admit this (even though I'm opposed, in theory, to the idea of guilty pleasures -- I figure if I like it, I like it), but one of my favorite country singles of the last few years is "I Wanna Talk About Me." I don't normally go for that kind of thing, but it's like the culmination of something, like the past 10 years had been leading up to it and now it's over. Country can go back to being country now. Even TK seems to realize that. (It's too bad Big and Rich don't.) It's state-of-the-art pop, bright, flashy, dumb (in a smart way -- maybe crass and manipulative and cynical, but still smart), and big -- except for the dumb part, it's almost like a Nashville parallel to the Neptunes and Timbaland.

Actually, I don't think you've undermined your argument at all. What I've taken away from it so far is:

1) I'm blaming Nashville for being as screwed up as the rest of the record business,

2) You and I share a passion for the genre, but have different taste in production values,

3) I'm still a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to the second point as my recent posting in the guilty pleasures thread clearly illustrates.

I've been wondering over the past couple of days what I would have thought of Nashville sound of the 50s that produced Patsy Cline's best work had I been listening at the time. That was all about smooth, slick production and today's it's some of my favorite music.

Do you have an opinion of Foster & Lloyd? I largely know Bill Lloyd from his work with Marshall Crenshaw. He has a new album out I'm liking quite a bit (it's more pop than country), so I thought I would go back and check out Foster & Lloyd and once again found myself a bit put off with the production, so that's definitely an issue with me. I'm curious what you think, though.

Now Playing: "Dear Grandma and Grandpa" Tortoise _Millions Now Living Will Never Die_ (Thrill Jockey)

I'm afraid I don't know anything about Foster & Lloyd. I just did a Soulseek search and came up with nothing. Now I'm probably more curious than you about my opinion of them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LinnTate:
Do you have an opinion of Foster & Lloyd? I largely know Bill Lloyd from his work with Marshall Crenshaw. He has a new album out I'm liking quite a bit (it's more pop than country), so I thought I would go back and check out Foster & Lloyd and once again found myself a bit put off with the production, so that's definitely an issue with me. I'm curious what you think, though.

---

Hey LT, I'm a big fan of Bill Lloyd and I like Radney Foster OK, but I'm not a huge fan of the stuff they did together. The production dates poorly and there's more Radney than Bill. The "Essential" collection has 19 songs, more than enough of the good ones, worth of F&L, if you're looking for an artifact.

I spun the Foster & Lloyd collection for several weeks during and after this thread. Your take on it is dead on. Like some of the artists I mentioned earlier, I admire the songwriting and musicianship, but I'm a bit put off by the production style.

This probably belongs in the Power Pop thread, but what's your take on Bill Lloyd's latest, Back To Even. I've been listening to it for a little over a month now. The title track, "Dial Nine," and "Kissed Your Sister" are all good and "Me Against Me" has a surpisingly jazzy style that I've not heard him dabble in before and is very pleasing.

In all, though, it hasn't quite made my list of favorites for the year, though it's on the cusp. I kind of feel that it's the record I wish Marshall Crenshaw had made this year, but perhaps that is an unfair comparison based on the fact that they've been working together.

Yeah. This really ought to be in the Power Pop thread.

Now Playing: "I See With My Third 'I'" Rahsaan Roland Kirk Rahsaan: The Complete Mercury Recordings (Mercury)