Im really curious as to what long time country fans think of this album. I got it not having really listened to any country music and was totally blown away by it.

Anyway, I know the critics over in America have been pretty excited by it, but over here they have been giving it pretty luke-warm responses. So what do you guys think of it?

I haven't listened to the whole album, but I have heard the Lynn/White duet, Portland Oregon. Great song.

It was pretty funny when I bought the album because I went to my local music store the first day it came to Australia and asked the guy there, who knows me pretty well, about it and made him open up a box that had just come and sell me a copy. He was like "are you getting this for Mother's Day or something?" and he was really tripped out that I was buying a country record.

I think it's brilliant, and country fans I know have generally thought along the same lines.

Member 27, I hope that now that a few days have passed that the consensus of the Australian critics has improved about this album. I hope that you don't have that knee-jerk, anti-White Stripes reaction that occurs occasionally. This album is basically pure Loretta, and anybody with an ounce of knowledge/history knows that. For that matter, I'm listening to the new Paul Kelly (aka, the second coming for over 20 years now) right now, and I would be upset if the Australian critics treated him with anything less than heart-felt admiration. Long live true country. Little Red Shoes, Women's Prison and Have Mercy blow almost everything outta the water.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mark f,

No, consensus hasnt improved. Its hardly been felt here, in fact.

Damn pity too.

I think it's a fantastic album...I was completely blown away by it when I first heard it.
By the way, if you read the Village Voice review, it sounds like they loved it too. I wonder how the site decided to give the review a "70" rating instead of something higher?

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Originally posted by Loki Anderson:
By the way, if you read the Village Voice review, it sounds like they loved it too. I wonder how the site decided to give the review a "70" rating instead of something higher?

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It's a generally good review, but definitely not a glowing review. See, e.g., "At times the pyrotechnics don't match up, and moments feel derivative or too weak for the weight of the attention they receive. The songwriting is uneven..."

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Originally posted by Metacritic Music Editor:

It's a generally good review, but definitely not a glowing review. See, e.g., "At times the pyrotechnics don't match up, and moments feel derivative or too weak for the weight of the attention they receive. The songwriting is uneven..."

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Aaahhh, but that's because they're the Village Voice...

Not only would I characterize myself as a long-time country music fan, Member 27, but I go far enough back with Loretta Lynn to have listened to her classic catalog on 8-track, riding in the back seat of my parents' car. So, I've not exactly been with her from the beginning, but we have a history together.

VLR holds a solid place on my list of favorite albums of the year and will, I believe, be considered one of the real highlights of her career. I know the comparisons are often drawn to the work Rick Rubin and Johnny Cash did together, which I thought was great, but what I love most about VLR is the fact that rather than recreating herself, Loretta Lynn and Jack White have created an album that is unabashedly, unashamedly Loretta Lynn, which is a real thumb in the eye to the cretins in Nashville that have turned their backs on the great artists of the past who are still with us.

It's good to have her back.

i got this album because i'm a big Jack White fan

musically the album is great

Lynn's voice is great. much better than Johnny Cash's was on his last few albums (hate to say it but Cash's voice was shot as of American III); Lynn's voice still sounds perfect like she's a youthful girl on Van Lear Rose

however, i found the two anti-God songs to be very disturbing. what's up with those songs? when and why did Lynn become anti-God?

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Originally posted by Navaros:
however, i found the two anti-God songs to be _very_ disturbing. what's up with those songs? when and why did Lynn become anti-God?

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To which songs are you referring, Navaros?

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i'm referring to "Trouble On the Line" and "God Makes No Mistakes"

I thought you might be referring to "God Makes No Mistakes." I don't think an interpretation of the song as anti-God could be further off base. It brings to mind Matthew 10:29-31

"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows."

As for "Trouble on the Line," it's clearly a song about a troubled interpersonal relationship with "Oh, Lord" serving purely as an invocation. Blasphemous under a strict reading of The Ten Commandments, but anti-God? No.

That's this heathen's take on it anyway.

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i don't see how "God Makes No Mistakes" could be interpreted as anything other than a venemous, mean-spirited anti-God rant

the tone of the song is quite the opposite of the Bible verse you quoted. in that song, Lynn is trying to convey the message "God is a screw-up, and God is probably dead too"

i am totally shocked by having something like this on that album. most professional critics praise such anti-God hate as Lynn being "honest". but in reality it's a slap in the face to all listeners who believe in God.

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Originally posted by Navaros:
i don't see how "God Makes No Mistakes" could be interpreted as anything other than a venemous, mean-spirited anti-God rant

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I'm curious if you've read any Christian apologetics in general and any of C.S. Lewis' writings on the subject in particular. The two works I think are germane to the topic at hand are The Problem of Pain and A Grief Observed. Both are examinations of the fundamental dilemma of the existance of suffering in a world created by a loving God, which is what Lynn writes about eloquently in "God Makes No Mistakes."

On a side note, the personal history behind The Problem of Pain and A Grief Observed alone would make them worthwhile reading. They were written two decades apart. The former as both an intellectual exercise and profession of faith, the latter as a reaction to the death of Lewis' wife. The story is told quite well in the film Shadowlands and on this web page from which I admit to cribbing rather shamelessly (a practice which makes me a bit nervous in the presence of our own philosopherEric).

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Originally posted by Navaros:
the tone of the song is quite the opposite of the Bible verse you quoted. in that song, Lynn is trying to convey the message "God is a screw-up, and God is probably dead too"

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A close reading of the lyrics simply doesn't bear this out.

"Why, I've heard people say
Why is this tree bent
Why they don't have God enough to know
Thats' the way that it was meant
why is this little baby born
all twisted and out of shape
We're not to question what he does
God makes no mistakes"

Is the suggestion that God's ways are ineffable? Yes. That God is a screw-up? No.

"Why I've heard people say
God cannot be alive
And all the things people say
Has to be a lie
When they're down and out
And they need a hand
And their very souls at stake
If they'll call on him and just beleive
God makes no mistakes"

Again, the suggestion is clear that while people may suggest God is dead, the narrator is clear that in an hour of need and for the sake of their immortal souls, questioning the existence of God and an explanation of God's ways is folly rather than opening one's heart and having faith.

It occurs to me. Another excellent take on the same theme is the well known book When Bad Things Happen To Good People by the Rabbi Harold S. Kushner, which covers much of the same ground from a non-Christian perspective.

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Originally posted by Navaros:
i am totally shocked by having something like this on that album. most professional critics praise such anti-God hate as Lynn being "honest". but in reality it's a slap in the face to all listeners who believe in God.

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Most professional critics? A glance at more than a dozen of the reviews cited in the Metacritic rating reveal nothing of the sort. Which reviews are you referencing?

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Give 'em Hell, LT. I completely agree with you, and I'm coming (theoretically) from Navaros' position. The songs basically explain that if you have a problem with God, it's YOUR problem, not God's. Even with faith, we're not capable of understanding "the plan", no matter how frustrating that is. But God makes no mistakes, so trust, and at some point, all will be revealed. The parallel line of thought is if you have a problem with Loretta, it's YOUR problem, not hers.

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Originally posted by Navaros:

however, i found the two anti-God songs to be very disturbing. what's up with those songs? when and why did Lynn become anti-God?

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Judging from the lyrics that LinnTate posted, they're about as far from anti-God songs as you can get. Yeah, nice way to interpret the words as the exact opposite of their actual meaning, and act just as every detractor of Christianity would imagine a Christian acting.

Actually, I do have a reason for posting. I'm not really part of country music's target audience, so I'm wondering, would it have any crossover appeal to someone who's primarily an alternative/indie rock fan, but who's willing to give almost anything a try? From the sounds of things, it succeeds on pretty much all counts, so it should be a safe bet. Opinions?

It's hard for me to be objective about the Loretta Lynn album, Biggles, given the fact that I ranked the album as my top pick for the year. It's also hard for me to put myself in the shoes of somebody who is principally an alternatvie/indie listener, since I grew up listening to country including Loretta Lynn.

That being said, the enormous crossover success the album enjoyed and the fact that it figured prominently on so many alternative/indie year-end lists would seem to indicate it's a pretty safe bet.

You might also consider checking out some of the artists and album recommended in the Favorite Alt-Country/Americana records thread for more country albums filtered through an alternative/indie sensibility.

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biggles the two songs ive heard that actually got played on cmt and gac are not typical country
portland orgegan is a bit of a rocker and doesnt sound like typical loretta lynn at all and the other single that got played on cmt was "ms being mrs" wich is a spare acoustic song about the lonelyness of being widowed and is very powerfull emotionally so obviously theyre not typical country at all.

i think if youre open to someone like johnny cash or americana then you should find an apprecation for it for me i was raised on country so its not hard for me to hear it.

and as for the interesting discussion on god that was made earlier i dont see how anyone can say god is perfect i mean after all doesnt the bible say we are all created in his image? i think if god was pefect then its reasonable to assume that we would be perfect to.