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Guru |
The biggest problem with what you've said here major, is that you've misrepresented what I said because obviously you're more interested in painting me in a false negative light than you are with integrity. I never said that indie was conformist nor did I ever say that all metacritic users where indie fan boys, nor did I bash all posters. So maybe next time, before you accuse me of things I didn't say, you could just refrain from posting. Thanks. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
The mods here in the forum aren't affiliated with the main Metacritic site. They have no control over any of the content on the site, with the exception of deleting spam and banning users who don't obey the forum policies. The content here in the forums is dictated nearly 100% by forum members like yourself. There's a ton of stuff posted in these forums that I have no interest in (the entire Games forum for instance), but if people want to come in and talk about it, they're more than welcome to. I should also point out that all the mods here, past and present, collectively have pretty eclectic tastes when it comes to music. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I think you guys have argued about this long enough, hudson. If you want to post "something new or different" then go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. Check out any of the threads and you will see tons of topics filled with variance and diversity.
I think that we welcome a lot of new and different opinions on here. Mark always says and I completely agree with him, that the more people we get, from different parts of the world, with varied personalities, hobbies, likes & dislikes, is ideal and great. Look at some of our more recent posters like Monkey_Boy and Ishmael's Coffin and even sooner, Shadrach. They have shared tons of new ideas and opinions, created new and exciting threads and they haven't been "chastised and ridiculed for not fitting into a certain mold." If you want to post about new and exciting things, and you yourself want to "inject" life into the forums then go ahead. No one will stop you and no one will ridicule you. The moderators here are working hard to make sure that Metacritic is a great place to discuss whatever you want and to sometimes debate certain topics. We are working towards inclusion and welcoming people in. I think that maybe you should pick and choose your battles more carefully so that you don't feel you are getting jumped on. By the way, all of the aforementioned was stated so that you could feel comfortable and as helpful, courteous advice. I know a lot of the people on here and they are truly great and unique people. If you don't want me to help you out, then just let me know. But just know that no one is out to get you and that you and your ideas are more than welcome here. ----- I got a stone where my heart should be. |
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Guru |
Ok, I'm sober now and hopefully more coherent and less confrontational. Let me just quote several things you said that struck a nerve with me last night:
Uh. Do I even need to say anything? I honestly am confused what you're arguing here. You make this handy premise that indie music fans are easily controlled and monitored. Please explain that. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see how they're any easier to control than people of any other subculture, and I'm not sure who is controlling them.
How am I supposed to interpret this any other way than indie music and its followers are/have conformist methods of expression? I swear I'm not trying to misrepresent you, I'm simply trying to understand what you're saying with your words.
I don't care if you want to define indie that broadly. Much experimental stuff is indie. When you combine that with your previous statement though, how is it misrepresenting you to say that you've argued that those are conformist methods of expression? Do you see how I made that jump? I'm sorry if that wasn't your intent, but if I have it wrong, please explain to me what the comformist methods of expression are.
I was going to ignore your comments until this one. In my experience, it seems like most of the long time posters and moderators either ignore or are harder and those with more of an "indie fanboy" personality. They have extremely high regard for many types of music, and it stretches far past indie. It might not stretch to metal, but please explain to me when they've ever dissuaded you from discussing metal. Now I've tried my best to address your posts, and hopefully I've made it clear that I'm not arguing a straw man(or at least not trying to). If you still think I "lack integrity" or am "more interested in painting you in a negative light" than I don't know what to tell you. |
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Guru |
Oh, sorry guys, I didn't see that you had posted. Hudson, I'll leave it up because it took a while to write but if you feel like responding to my post will accomplish nothing, I won't be offended.
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
It's fine, go ahead and leave it up. You should get a chance to make your claim while you are sober.
 I also agree with you and eric that a lot of the mods and long-time posters have deep, substantial and eclectic musical tastes--easily. ----- I got a stone where my heart should be. |
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Guru |
Major, a headbanger is someone who listens to metal. I just wanted to clarify that because I think that's what throwing off your understanding of what I said. I was talking about how headbangers and other posters with different forms of expressing their opinions other than the tightly regulated method that the mods expect from posters around here aren't really welcome.
Basically, I think that the mods are too closely involved with the discussions around here. A mod should be someone who watches the discussions and makes sure that people refrain from personal attacks. Other than that, they should remain silent. The reason I say that is because a moderator needs to be objective, and that's not possible when they get personally involved with all the topics. I honestly believe that a certain mod has it out for me because he doesn't like my personal musical tastes and posting style. He has deleted my posts for no other reason than he didn't like my opinion. Fact is, if this mod would've remained objective and not gotten personally involved with the topic at hand, he wouldn't have deleted my posts. When I come here, I want to talk about music they way I like to talk about music. But I find this very difficult because the mods so closely regulate any post that does not adhere to the norm. I find the level of post policing around here to be way too high. For a forum that prides itself in representing individual and unique forms of music, it sure seems close-minded when it comes to how it allows it's members to express themselves. This is all just my opinion. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
You're free to think what you want, but I'd like to see an example of how you think moderators regulate posts. Aside from deleting spam and topics that have been covered elsewhere, you're free to say what you want. The only other time a post would be deleted was if it were downright rude and offensive to other members. These forums are generally pretty lax, but we do ask that people behave themselves in a civilized manner. Every discussion forum I've participated in online, mods have participated in the discussions. That's just plain ridiculous to think they should sit silently. For those of you who don't know, the mods here don't get paid for being mods. To ask them to come in here on a daily basis and essentially be babysitters and not participate in the discussions would be asking a lot. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Guru |
Eric, while is may be too much to expect the mods to remain objective and not get personally involved with the topics and other posters here, I do believe that it is necessary in order to have a fair and properly functioning forum environment.
Mods are like the jury, they weigh in when personal attacks are being made and their job is to insure that the TOS are not violated. That's it. If a jury is personally involved with the case or any of the witnesses, they are disqualified, and justifiably so. They are disqualified because they lose their objectivity regarding the matter at hand. Forum mods are no different. They lose the objectivity they need to preform their duties fairly when they get personally involved. And instead of letting the actual members shape the environment they shape it themselves according to their own personal tastes because they have the power. That's not what a community should be. As for me providing examples of what i'm talking about, you'll have to ask markf about them. |
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Guru |
Yeah, I know what a headbanger is. I'm even more confused than when I started, so let me just ask you this. How does a headbanger express themselves differently on a forum from a non-headbanger? Anyways, I agree with you if moderators have actually deleted positive contributions, but that behavior would surprise me... and especially it would surprise me if it resulted from some sort of bias against metal. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I am not really sure what you are talking about hudson. Mark has never come in and changed something to his personal taste. Some of the mods don't even like any rap/hip-hop, but they never go in and delete posts there or tell members not to talk about rap because it doesn't "fit their tastes."
It is also very unfair to assume that the mods are only here to watch over and never get involved. I think we should be allowed to post our opinions and share our ideas and tastes as well. Maybe you don't like that, but frankly, you are the first--that I know of--to complain about mods posting so often. ----- I got a stone where my heart should be. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
Again, we don't shape the content of the forums any more than anyone else. If your post was deleted by a mod, it clearly violated a forum guideline. And most of those guideline violations would just get you a warning. Typically, the only things that would get deleted outright are posts that are spam or rude/offensive. Your post wouldn't get deleted just because you posted about a subject a moderator wasn't interested in. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
If that were the case, we'd all be posting at the Andrew Bird fan forum.  ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
Or maybe the "How much do you dislike Boxer" forum! ----- I got a stone where my heart should be. |
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Guru |
Markf has deleted threads I started for no good reason other than he didn't like my opinion and my straight forward posting style. Obviously I have no way of proving that other than posting some pm's(which I won't do) but I know what went down. Some people may interpret my style as rude but I don't break the terms of service for these forums and I don't personally attack anyone.
Bottomline is, the mods are the ones with the power, it's their party and if they don't like you and your style you'll have a hard time enjoying your time here. This should be a place for people to come in a talk about music, but instead, it's like a semi-private chat area for the mods and their cronies. Of course, this is all just my opinion. Btw, eric, of all the mods I respect you the most because I never see you jump all over newbies that are trying to find their way around the music boards like I do with other mods here. |
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Jedi |
Is everything a personal attack on you? You seem to have made this thread a "semi-private chat" for you to whine. Get over yourself. I've posted comments about Mark's daughter that could come off as much more offensive to others. If Mark was not a calm, collected individual with a sense of humor then I doubt he'd have let those stand. So, your comments that got deleted by Mark most likely had a reason for them to be removed other than your music taste. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
Well, I won't fight Mark's battles for him. All I can say is that if a thread you started got deleted, it either violated the forum guidelines in some way, or it was an accident (which can happen). You can rest assured no one has a vendetta against you, and no one is trying to silence you. Post away.
----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Guru |
I sense a William Shatner "Nightmare at 20,000 Feet" Twilight Zone moment here. (And I apologize in advance if that reference is over people's head.)
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I think more people are probably familiar with the John Lithgow version from the Twilight Zone movie, but I got the reference. ----- I’ll be Ben Gazzara, you’ll be Gena Rowlands. |
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Apprentice Guru |
Hey neat, a metal thread*! Has anyone heard of the band Pelican? I've only heard their 2007 album City Of Echos. Instrumental metal that is well structured and cohesive, but a bit long winded. Worth a listen though.
Sadly, it is. Thank god for youtube! *sorry for hijacking the thread. ==== What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun. |
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