This thread is pure gold. I'm going back to stuff I haven't listened to since 1985.

quote:

Originally posted by Kulturtrager:
This thread is pure gold. I'm going back to stuff I haven't listened to since 1985.

Well, it's mostly better than what passes for metal these days.

That's an interesting observation.

I think the motives were a bit different back then. Extreme metal was a much more prejudiced form of music. I remember it changing round about the early 90s when Megadeth, Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer and Sepultura started making significant dents in the pop charts. It felt pretty good, because these (at the time) great bands were finally getting the attention they deserved. Ultimately though, it killed a lot of the anger in the music and death grunts, stupidly heavy guitars and fast double bass kicks became a badge of conformity, rather than a two finger salute to the music industry and then Nirvana blew the whole thing out of the water. These days, Ozzy Osbourne and his family are just as accepted as boybands and super model celebrities.

To be metal back then was a different thing. You really were joining the outcasts. If you were into metal, people thought you were unintelligent, tone deaf and a musical ignoramis and the media embraced that opinion. In America, they even set up centres to rehabilitate metal fans back into being 'normal citizens'. The PMRC tried to ban all our favourite records and there were numerous TV documentaries exposing the satanic, baby murdering bands that were infecting youth.

These days metal is slick, organised and stylish. It's more business like. Metal bands have their own TV stations and stylists. By contrast I remember having to stay awake till 4 o'clock in the morning to catch half a video by Megadeth. In the 80s metal was that unpopular.

Although that was a major pain in the arse, it made the music more honest, because no-one actually believed that extreme metal would ever amount to financial success so they just did whatever they wanted to do - It was mainly for fun.

These days, getting on the front cover of Kerrang! is a gateway to super-stardom, opposed to infamy and media prejudice. A lot of those bands look like models and they sing as if they are auditioning for Pop Idol. Interestingly though, they still chuck a few death grunts in there to win over the hardcore fans, which widens the target market. It's not all bad, but there's a lot of posers. We may have had glam metal in the 80s, but at least it was horrid enough to have a mercifully short lifespan.

I blame Kiss for the whole corporate aesthetic. Slipknot owe a lot to that band in terms of merchandising concepts!

Bare in mind that my opinions are based on my experiences in the UK. It may have been different elsewhere.

Metal seems to have hit a wall that it can't get past. Duncan, you started that other thread somewhere here about whether there are any new ideas in music. No genre is a better (or worse) example of the lack of new ideas than metal. What people mainly seem to think is "new" is just combining different sub-genres ad nauseum. You want to create a new genre? Just put "blackened" in front of it. Better yet, put "thrash" in it somewhere. Oh, why not just call it "blackened thrash". Soon we'll no doubt have "melodic blackened doomy thrash deathcore". Maybe it all started with Cradle of Filth. (Yeah, I know that's an easy target.)

I know what you mean, but I actually liked genre splicing in the late 80s/early 90s. I loved the stuff that was coming out of the San Fransisco Bay Area back then. Probably because it sounded new!

Nowadays metal seems to be more a combination of stuff than a hotbed of new sounds. It's completely understandable because there's only so much you can do with thick distortion and power chords, but maybe someone needs to think of a new way to express aggression.

For now, this thread provides solice in a time when music was doing something new, even if that just meant playing faster and heavier than everyone else. Those bands were so, so lucky that no-one had yet exploited speed and heaviness to the max. It was like a blank canvas waiting to be filled with filthy, heavy evil-ness. I wish I had a time machine.

This chat has reminded me that no genre of music has broken my heart more,( in terms of what potential it began with and where it has travelled since) than metal.

It's not misplaced nostalgia that makes me say that. Metal is the prime example of entropy methinks. And I do love it so. It taught me, gave me so much, and I say that wiithout irony, which may be an odd remark when we're talkin' metal.

Metal never broke my heart, but she's a cruel mistress.

We split up in the mid 90s when she started wearing massive trousers and writing rap songs with self-pity as a lyrical theme. She spends far too much time at the hairdressers these days.

Back to the matter in hand - Has anyone dug out anymore gems from the past?

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:

Back to the matter in hand - Has anyone dug out anymore gems from the past?

Can we talk about old-school grindcore and death metal here? I've been listening to Repulsion and Terrorizer lately.

Maybe you should start a new thread. There's certainly a gap in the market right now!

I'm filling in the blanks here, but no doubt I'll get in trouble with the administrators for dominating things. Maybe there deserves to be a thread for glam metal as well. Horrid as it was, there's a lot of funny stories about that subject and it would make for entertaining reading.

I love metal so much. There's so many threads I could reel off.

How about the REALLY old stuff? - Sabbath, Purple, Zeppelin, AC/DC, Motorhead, Priest, Maiden etc. Before anyone says anything, Zeppelin and AC/DC were regarded as a heavy metal bands for a LONG time before some executive in a well known retail outlet decided to put them in the 'rock' section. AC/DC were on the first ever cover of Kerrang! if memory serves.

I think the most fondly remembered metal bands existed between 1968 and 1991. The new stuff throws up a few surprises now and again, but to be honest, most of the bands nowadays are just going through the motions - I always go back to the old stuff in the end.

As for thrash, I haven't mentioned Sacred Reich, Mordred or Voivod yet. All cruelly ignored bands, if not always successful.

I should stop before I get carried away, although I think it may be too late.

i'm reading this thread with glee, but I'm not saying much cos I don't have the time to really get into a topic I adore, but Mr. Black?...keep on dominating.

You have an avid reader.

p.s. Sabbath are my Alpha & Omega.

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:

As for thrash, I haven't mentioned Sacred Reich, Mordred or Voivod yet. All cruelly ignored bands, if not always successful.

Funny you should mention Voivod, because I had thought about them several days ago, but forgot to make a post. I started listening to them after their thrash days were already long gone and they had gone "progressive". My first album was Angel Rat - and the Outer Limits (probably liked that one because of the old tv show - and the 3-D artwork). I didn't even realize they were a seminal thrash group until recently. It seems like it would be well worth my time to invest in some more used CD's.

Another (often overlooked) group that sometimes gets brought up alongside Voivod for being somewhat outside the norm (if that makes any sense in metal) were Thought Industry. They always struck me as a talented group that never quite got it together, but they definitely had their moments.

quote:

Originally posted by Kulturtrager:

p.s. Sabbath are my Alpha & Omega.

It goes without saying .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ezatldude,

quote:

Originally posted by ezatldude:
Funny you should mention Voivod, because I had thought about them several days ago, but forgot to make a post. I started listening to them after their thrash days were already long gone and they had gone "progressive". My first album was Angel Rat - and the Outer Limits (probably liked that one because of the old tv show - and the 3-D artwork). I didn't even realize they were a seminal thrash group until recently. It seems like it would be well worth my time to invest in some more used CD's.

Angel Rat was a pretty decent album - I still listen to it fairly regularly. Voivod were very unique and not as popular as they deserved to be. At one point they toured as a headline act with Soundgarden and Faith No more as support bands!? That would be quite an achievement to put on your CV. They remained on the fringes of popular metal and even supported Rush at one point, but never quite broke into the big time. Finally Jason Newsted joined and they got a lot more media interest, but sadly Denis died a few years later.

I first got into them on the 'Nothingface' album. That record is fantastic and probably their finest release. The opening track The Unknown Knows has weird juddering rhythms and great moments of psychedelia. The ending is great, featuring an irresistable bassline and some tasteful accordian from drummer Michel Langevin (who also created the great album covers). 'Accordians in thrash?!' I hear you say, but it is 100% effective. They really thought outside the box.

After Nothingface I hunted down the previous releases. Dimension Hatross is a nice little album, featuring one of their most popular songs in Tribal Convictions. The opening section still works well and Denis' use of double muted guitar coupled with heavy floor toms gives it an almost Native American feel.

They were always colourful and inventive. Denis D'amour also made great use of delay effects which suited the bands obsession with sci-fi and they eventually fitted into that 'space rock' aesthetic perfectly. I thought that suited them better than the prog-tag, although oddly, the majority of their music fits into the thrash category.

We've already spoken about how there's nothing new in metal. Voivod were one of those rare bands that actually pushed things forward and they don't get enough credit for it.

Yeh, Nothingface was a terrific forward looking record. I played the hell out of it on my trip to the Lake District. The combo of their sounds and the landscape meshed beautifully.

I quite fancied King's X in the early days, not exactly thrash, tho' it is old school....

I saw King's X live at Dublin Point Theatre in Ireland (1991). They were supporting AC/DC. Debatably, they were better which was quite incredible. Doug Pinnock was an amazing frontman and the guitarist was something to behold.

I suppose they have certain links to thrash. The guitars were definitely thrash influenced in places.

In fact, Kings X had a bunch of friends who started a band called Galactic Cowboys, heavily influenced by the Kings X sound. They were definitely thrash, although they mixed it with Beach Boys vocal harmonies. The first album is great, particulary 'Sea of Tranquility' which has a monstrous central bass riff, even if the bridge sections are directly lifted from Am I Evil?.

It's amazing how many quality bands can be completely forgotten with time. I never heard of the Canadian thrash band Razor until tonight.

It's amazing how many thrash bands you can find that may have predated Metallica. Razor seem to be yet another example.

Maybe Metallica just got lucky.

Owing to Metacritic locking most of the threads I have started recently, it wouldn't be a good idea to start another one, but if anyone has a definitive list of other thrash bands who were around before 1983, feel free to post it here.

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:
It's amazing how many thrash bands you can find that may have predated Metallica. Razor seem to be yet another example.

FWIW, I thought Metallica were one of the first thrash bands. They formed in 1981, "Kill 'em All" was released in 1983. That's a year before Razor's first LP, for example. Maybe if Hellhammer demos had been LPs instead (1983), they would've "made it" (but I think the world wasn't quite ready for them). The only band that I can think of that definitely pre-date Metallica, in terms of actual releases, are Venom. Why Metallica rose to fame and not Venom is beyond me.

Sorry to hear your threads are getting locked. I don't quite understand why.

It's probably because I got bored and posted a few questionable topics such as -

Are The Beatles dying in the wrong order?

and -

Let's kill indie and dance on it's grave
(incredibly that one's still going)

The official reason was that I had posted things that have been discussed before.

It was intended as humour but in retrospect I'd probably be a little concerned if someone posted those threads on a forum, although Metacritic does seem a bit more strict than other discussion groups.

I am currently steering clear of indie altogether as I never have anything positive to say on the subject. I'll just hide in the metal basement until the Indie people find me and burn me as a witch.

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:


I am currently steering clear of indie altogether as I never have anything positive to say on the subject. I'll just hide in the metal basement until the Indie people find me and burn me as a witch.

Was that a hidden reference to Burning Witch? If so, clever. If not, still take credit for it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ezatldude,