Bullshit, any time you get into a guitar discussion and Hendrix is mentioned that's the first thing brought up... the only difference is that none of the people Jimi "ripped off" got the sounds he got from his guitar.. but yeah, his more bluesy stuff is pretty directly influenced (just like many blues guitarist wear their influences on their sleeve).
Can we make this into a Jimi thread? Or a Mr. Bungle thread? Or even a Mike Patton thread?
Or a pretentious-free thread? Oh wait, Metacritic couldn't handle that... its infrastructure would implode.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest fan of Slipknot, so I don't really care if you guys all argue about them. And I haven't read any of the posts before Stackamynutz, so I'm not exactly sure what posts he was addressing. But it seemed to me that he was just stating that he liked Slipknot, found them to be original and creative, and if you're going to rail on them, at least listen to them before you do it.
Which I presume both Duncan and ezatldude have done, and not just one song or two. But do we really need to have all these presumptions about each other? Just because someone likes Slipknot doesn't mean they've never heard Black Sabbath. I don't like Black Sabbath, but I like Static-X. Yes, I've listened to Black Sabbath, but I don't care for them. I don't know why my brain is wired to like Static-X and not Black Sabbath, but it is, and honestly it's not first on my musical "to-do" list to try and figure that out, nor I bet is it first on stacka's to go through the history of metal just so he can make some comments on a band he appreciates and respects.
"The only thing hotter than this hot tub is you two ladies."
Posts: 280 | Location: Tucson | Registered: 10 December 2007
A couple things here... - JGlass: I didn't mean that Hendrix sucked, that he couldn't play guitar, wasn't creative, or anything like that. My point was exactly the opposite: Hendrix had some strong influences and no one (with decent sense about them) says that he wasn't creative. I was saying that Slipknot (although on a completely different field and to a lesser extent than Hendrix) did essentially the same thing: had musical influences and took that style and contributed to it in their own way with their own twists. PLEASE NOTE: I AM NOT PUTTING SLIPKNOT AND HENDRIX ON EQUAL GROUND. So don't give me any crap about comparing the two of them as if they were equals in the musical world. - Secondly, to ezatldude: (thanks for the props on the name) just some food for thought - is there some law I'm breaking that says because I like one band I can't like another? I mean just cause I like Slipknot, does that mean that I haven't heard or don't like Black Sabbath or other commonly acclaimed "good" metal bands? Sabbath is one of Corey's (the lead singer from Slipknot) favorite bands. So does that mean he can't like his own music because he's heard and likes Black Sabbath? I know those statements sound very ignorant of me, but I think they get across the point I am trying to make. I would also like you to refer to my first point on my original post: Slipknot isn't typical metal. Although I agree that one would have to take a journey through the history of metal to be on the same field as a lot of the people on these forums, I don't feel the necessity to listen to all metal and its heavy hitters or cult-followed underground participants in order to have a perspective on what I like and don't like. In my eyes Slipknot and Sabbath are on two different playing fields: traditional metal/founding fathers and modern day metal with a blend of other genre's influences (i.e. rap and ambient) that most metal bands don't draw from. There is a lot of metal out there that I like, but there's also a lot of metal out there I don't like. A lot of metal out there is very generic and has nothing new to bring to the table. I find Slipknot to not be in that group. Maybe that's why I like them. I think ProfAmaretto put it in the best words when he said he didn't know why his brain was wired to like one thing and not another. I am not strictly a fan of metal, and I like a lot of other genres of music. Maybe that's why my opinion is different. A lot of people I talk to who only listen to or mainly listen to metal don't like Slipknot for some of the same reasons I see people listing here. - And one other thing I seem to be seeing a lot of come up in here: the Slipknot trying to be "scary" or "horrifying". I don't know for sure if they are trying to come across as scary or not, but I don't think they are. If they are, they don't scare me. But, as I said in my original post, I think they do the masks and stuff for stage presence. If a band always wore masks they would have a different feel to their music and have a different response from the crowd at their shows than if that same group had an image of just regular looking guys. Other musicians use this same tactic (Kiss, Immortal, and Buckethead to name a few) and aren't trying to invoke 'scary'. Just wanted to say my words on that issue. (BTW Duncan, a guy with a live bomb strapped to his chest at live shows is way scarier than some dudes in masks.) - I would also like to thank everyone who has replied to my posts on this thread. I thought I was posting to a dead thread and would get little or no conversation out of it. I thank you all for sharing your thoughts and opinions as it has made for some good food for thought and conversation for me. (Not to mention thanks to anyone who has taken time to read my ridiculously long posts, consider this a will-never-be-paid IOU for 5 minutes of your life)
"Here's a couponette for a punch to the face"
Posts: 17 | Location: Illanoise | Registered: 03 August 2008
Originally posted by stackamynutz: I don't know the references myself, but a guy I work with is a huge Hendrix fan and he can list quite a few people Hendrix ripped off. No one discredits Hendrix for using stuff that sounded like other lesser-known bands of his day.
Bullshit, any time you get into a guitar discussion and Hendrix is mentioned that's the first thing brought up... the only difference is that none of the people Jimi "ripped off" got the sounds he got from his guitar.. but yeah, his more bluesy stuff is pretty directly influenced (just like many blues guitarist wear their influences on their sleeve).
Can we make this into a Jimi thread? Or a Mr. Bungle thread? Or even a Mike Patton thread?
Well said, but I think it goes beyond just influence. Blues quickly became a music style rooted by "blues notes/scale." Look up "Blues Scale" or "blues notes" for more info.
But in the case of blues and Hendrix he took the "blues notes" and added a tone and rhythum style that was all his own.
Actually, this is pretty much all I was saying stackamynuts (pm3: I played guitar for a bit haha). I was more calling bullshit on your co-worker.
Originally posted by stackamynutz: In my eyes Slipknot and Sabbath are on two different playing fields: traditional metal/founding fathers and modern day metal with a blend of other genre's influences (i.e. rap and ambient) that most metal bands don't draw from. There is a lot of metal out there that I like, but there's also a lot of metal out there I don't like. A lot of metal out there is very generic and has nothing new to bring to the table. I find Slipknot to not be in that group. Maybe that's why I like them.
On the one hand you say you don't feel the need to listen to most metal, but then you turn around and say "a lot of metal out there is very generic and has nothing new to bring to the table". Which is it? I think if you have listened to a lot of metal, you wouldn't come to this conclusion. OTOH, my opinion is that you haven't really listened to a lot of metal, and therefore, come off as ignorant when trying to paint the whole genre with such a broad brush. For example, if you were me, you'd be telling you that Faith No More incorporated rap many years before Slipknot. Heck, even the relatively obscure Austrian death metal band Disharmonic Orchestra had an ostensibly rap song back in 1992. Furthermore, you'd be telling you that bands like Burzum and Neurosis and countless others incorporated ambient metal long before Slipknot (and from what I've heard from Slipknot, I'm not sure I would consider any of it ambient - but let's save that for another session). I don't suppose you've heard any of these bands either, right? There are so many other examples of bands that were more original than Slipknot, but I'll leave you to find that out for yourself (I don't want to ruin all the fun you'd have looking). I understand you want to defend your tastes. That's a universal behavior. You know what? As I've gotten older I began to realize that a lot of my taste was utter crap when I was a kid. I think you may have that epiphany one day about Slipknot.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: ezatldude,
********************** Metal-Archives POTD
quote:
im looking for pretty much the most uninspired/unoriginal brutal and/or slam death. with little or no variation in vocals. stuff like disgorge(us) and condemned.
Posts: 973 | Location: Ain'T it stiLl obvious? | Registered: 22 August 2006
Originally posted by ProfAmaretto: I don't know why my brain is wired to like Static-X and not Black Sabbath
If you like Static-X, the chances are you'll love Ministry (if you haven't heard them already). In particular check out 'Jesus Built My Hotrod'. In my humble opinion, it's the best song ever recorded.
On the subject of Mike Patton, he may well have invented the majority of ideas that are now used in current metal trends and for anyone new to metal, he is an essential point of reference - particularly Faith No More's 'Angeldust' and Mr Bungle's first album. They may sound a little dated now, but it's impossible to deny the massive impact those albums had.
The ironic thing is that Patton appears to reject this notion and regularly attacks modern metal quite viciously. It's odd that Patton has hugely influenced the very musicians he detests.
I'm a huge follower of his music and currently own about 60 of his CDs, but he's an awkward character for sure.
Originally posted by Duncan Black: I'm a huge follower of his music and currently own about 60 of his CDs, but he's an awkward character for sure.
If you haven't seen this video, you'll love it (make sure to watch the whole thing). BTW, Wolfmother broke up recently (it's relevant to the video).
********************** Metal-Archives POTD
quote:
im looking for pretty much the most uninspired/unoriginal brutal and/or slam death. with little or no variation in vocals. stuff like disgorge(us) and condemned.
Posts: 973 | Location: Ain'T it stiLl obvious? | Registered: 22 August 2006
Yes, I've seen that one too. Patton is catty at the best of times and that's one of the funniest examples.
I actually met Mike Patton round about 1989 when Faith No More were touring The Real Thing - he's a bit of a prankster. He also walked past me in the street outside Nottingham Rock City before a Mr Bungle gig, but I couldn't think of anything clever to say. He has a lot of psychotic fans so I thought it best to leave him be.
My girlfriend's brother is a huge metalhead.. apparently he waited in line behind a couple of the dudes from Pantera at a Wal-Mart for like 15 min. but couldn't get the balls to speak to them.
Oddly enough, a few of the members who weren't there are from around same town my gf grew up in and when she was really young one of the Pantera guys went on a boat with her family (owned by a mutual friend).. apparently one of them was making out really drunkenly (i.e. sloppily) right over her head... even though she was like 5 or 6.
Originally posted by ProfAmaretto: I don't know why my brain is wired to like Static-X and not Black Sabbath
If you like Static-X, the chances are you'll love Ministry (if you haven't heard them already). In particular check out 'Jesus Built My Hotrod'. In my humble opinion, it's the best song ever recorded.
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Excellent, Psalm69 is one of my favorite albums of the '90s i dug it up last week and have been blasting it of late.
Hahaha, I just watched the Patton video link. I dig Wolfmother for what it is but he has a point about it's "Retro" sound, though i hate that term. I hadn't seen this yet bt i try to shy away from the YouTube because of the crazy amount of pointless crap and spam i kept running into. Thanks for the link ezatldude.
Posts: 30 | Location: LA | Registered: 02 May 2008
It is a bad thing, which is probably why he hates it so much.
When Patton originally opted for those 'performance strategies' they were considered offensive and weird by an awful lot of music critics and metal fans. We are talking about a bloke who drank his own wee out of a shoe and did Sparks covers in tandem with death metal songs - all of which was very entertaining to those of us who understood it (I think).
At the time, KERRANG! gave Mr Bungle 1 out of 5 for their genius debut album. Years later they ate their words. And that's my point - Even KERRANG! hated them.
Cue Slipknot, System of a Down, Limp Bizkit, American Headcharge, P.O.D, Mudvayne etc, etc, etc - KERRANG! didn't bat an eyelid. In fact they thought it was 'cool'.
You still see the odd social outcast wearing a faded old T-shirt with the slogan 'There's a tractor in my balls'. Nice to know they're still out there. It brings a tear to my eye every time.
