quote:

Originally posted by RavingLunatic:
Do you have to listen to a lot of rap to know whether Aesop's lyrics make sense? Seems to me you'd only have to listen to Aesop.

Well, his lyrics are some of the hardest to understand in the hip-hop/rap genre but they make sense. He is often praised for his ability to make a listener want to get the lyrics, dissect them and analyze them. As a rapper who is known and highly regarded for his strong lyrical content, stating that he "only makes sense one in ten lines" (that line doesn't even make sense in it of itself) just isn't right.

And yeah, I'm of the opinion that you should know a lot about the genre that you are going to put down. The lyrics on None Shall Pass are strikingly different than the lyrics on April. I can say I don't like the lyrics on Brooks and Dunn's "Neon Moon" because the lyrics are pretty straightforward, even though I don't listen to country music. But the complexities on some of hip-hop/rap’s lyrics need to be analyzed to be fully understood.

I don't even have a problem with lyrics not making sense. Most of Beck's lyrics are just nonsense, but I don't mind. Paul Simon's the same way, at least most of the stuff of his I've heard. To me there are very few artists out there writing genuinely good lyrics. As long as an artist can avoid corny lyrics I'm generally happy. Just keep the words out of the way of the song I say.

I think the point he was making is that lyrics are lyrics. They're just words. The fact that they are in a particular genre doesn't make a difference unless they heavily use hip-hop references and jargon that are impossible to understand to someone with little hip-hop background. Once they're written down, they're just words. You don't need to listen to a lot of folk to understand what Bob Dylan is singing about. I'm not sure what the style of music or delivery has to do with it, outside of unique jargon or slang. There are certainly non-hip-hop artists (and poets!) who write things that are at least as dense as anything a rapper has. That they might need to be analyzed carefully to be fully understood is a separate issue from familiarity with the genre.

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:

quote:

Originally posted by RavingLunatic:
Do you have to listen to a lot of rap to know whether Aesop's lyrics make sense? Seems to me you'd only have to listen to Aesop.

Well, his lyrics are some of the hardest to understand in the hip-hop/rap genre but they make sense. He is often praised for his ability to make a listener want to get the lyrics, dissect them and analyze them. As a rapper who is known and highly regarded for his strong lyrical content, stating that he "only makes sense one in ten lines" (that line doesn't even make sense in it of itself) just isn't right.

And yeah, I'm of the opinion that you should know a lot about the genre that you are going to put down. The lyrics on None Shall Pass are strikingly different than the lyrics on April. I can say I don't like the lyrics on Brooks and Dunn's "Neon Moon" because the lyrics are pretty straightforward, even though I don't listen to country music. But the complexities on some of hip-hop/rap’s lyrics need to be analyzed to be fully understood.

Wow, I have a problem with practically everything you've said. Yes, I thought most people on here knew that rap is the genre I've listened to the most throughout my life.

Second, how does saying that he only makes sense 1 in 10 lines not make sense? It obviously does, you understood exactly what I meant.

Now: I was a HUGE Aesop fan in high school.. then I listened to the crap he was saying and the way he would sometimes force rhymes (rather than letting them naturally flow) and I realized that Aesop (along with a lot of other grammar-heavy "indie hip-hop") really blows. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I really don't think there is any depth to half the crap Aesop throws out there. I will admit that Aesop (seemingly) stream-of-conscience lyrics may not intentionally have much to them but they allow for some great interpretation.

Aesop has one of the best flows out there, no doubt, but stringing together "big words" just won't cut it. Like I said earlier, some of his lines kill, but often they just fall flat.

quote:

Originally posted by JGlass:
Wow, I have a problem with practically everything you've said. Yes, I thought most people on here knew that rap is the genre I've listened to the most throughout my life.

Second, how does saying that he only makes sense 1 in 10 lines not make sense? It obviously does, you understood exactly what I meant.

Now: I was a HUGE Aesop fan in high school.. then I listened to the crap he was saying and the way he would sometimes force rhymes (rather than letting them naturally flow) and I realized that Aesop (along with a lot of other grammar-heavy "indie hip-hop") really blows. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I really don't think there is any depth to half the crap Aesop throws out there. I will admit that Aesop (seemingly) stream-of-conscience lyrics may not intentionally have much to them but they allow for some great interpretation.

Aesop has one of the best flows out there, no doubt, but stringing together "big words" just won't cut it. Like I said earlier, some of his lines kill, but often they just fall flat.

Well, sorry, but I didn't know that that's the genre you've listened to the most throughout your life. I am only going off my memory but I don't remember you hardly ever mentioning hip-hop/rap in your lists or mention it as something new you are liking.

Your "makes sense 1 in 10 lines" doesn't make sense to me because I don't agree with it. I don't see how he doesn't make sense 90% of the time. That doesn't make sense to me.

But yeah, I just don't agree with you. And I didn't like how you just decided to dump on somone just because he likes Aesop Rock's lyrics. All he said is that he likes the lyrics and hasn't stopped listening, you felt compelled enough to say he "only makes sense one in ten lines."

That wasn't an attack FKA, that was my opinion of his lyrics.

And rap is hardly ever mentioned by me because I've been impressed by a maximum of 5 albums in the past 5 years. I don't bother listening to much new rap anymore because it doesn't intrigue me like it did two years ago; I'm never in "that mood" anymore. I still generally grab the latest interesting looking albums but they don't get anywhere near as much attention as a seemingly solid rock album (which actually makes me sad).

Wu-Tang (and related), Nas, and Lil Wayne are the main exceptions. I listen to them far too much (esp. in my car). I still break out the Del shit pretty frequently too... and a lot of the other typical "underground" 90s rap (or hip-hop).

I still don't understand what is so hard to get about him not making sense 90% of the time. I cann understand disagreeing with me (although I'd wonder if you've ever looked up his lyrics and looked at his "metaphors"..)

P.S. I own copies of Labor Days (which is by far Aesop's best album) and Bazooka Tooth (which I bought on a whim 3 or 4 years ago... and I also feel is horrendous). I also have all of his LPs except Bazooka Tooth on my backup laptop (never transferred them to this hdd because I stopped listening to him completely around a year ago; briefly checked out None Shall Passed... but it did nothing for me). So, I'm not just throwing out bullshit; he's nowhere near my favorite rapper, but I'm not ignorant when it comes to his music.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JGlass,

I can certainly see both sides. Labor Days is his best work (although I would say that his Daylight EP released around the same time is very comparable), I agree. Some of his lyrics are forced nonsense. But, in general, Aesop is a solid contributor to the Undie Hip-Hop scene. None Shall Pass was a pretty solid release last year (probably in my to 20-30 range) and most certainly worth my time. Aes has his a nice little niche and I look forward to his future work.

As for the quibbles between the two of you, how 'bout a little civility?

Edited for repetition and grammatical errors

This message has been edited. Last edited by: St. Mike,

He started it!

The best new album to me was Digitalism - Idealism, very catchy and really got into it

I really like Aesop Rock.

I'm really digging Sheila E.'s debut. It basically sounds like a Prince album. Only 6 songs, but the album length is a little over 33 minutes. The title track, "The Glamorous Life", is the star on the album, but other great tracks are "The Belle of St. Mark", "Noon Rendezvous" and "Oliver's House".

Smash Palace. Not sure how this excellent power pop band has escaped me. Their 5th album is amazing- Everybody Comes and Goes. Recommended if you like Badfinger, Fountains of Wayne and early Tom Petty.

unsane... great noise-rock outfit out of new york that has been tearing it up since the early 90's

I am posting this first and foremost to earn promotion to participant:-)
Best new to me in 2008 is definitely The Dodos.
The album, Visiter, will probably end up top three on my year-end-list. I'm really impressed. The song Jodi in particular is awesome.

I don't exactly know what I'm looking for, but I'm totally sick of most of the music I'm hearing these days. New music, I mean. I'm tired of the same production techniques. I'm tired of the same vocals and lyrics. I'm tired of all of it. Look, I like Animal Collective or Sufjan Stevens as much as the next guy, but I'm totally tired of the sound. I've been going hard at 2000's music for about five years and I'm burned out on what's going on.

No, I haven't become one of those older guys who says that only older music is good. New music gets me excited and gives me new ideas. It's the present and future, not the past right? But I feel like I'm running out of current music to be interested in. I'm looking for something to ignite my desire to write my own music. Not in a ripping off kind of way at all, but just to remind me that it's actually worth making music in today's climate. In short: I need something new and unique.

So what's the point of this rant? Well it's in the recommendations thread, so I'm looking for recommendations. A few stipulations:

- What I'm looking for doesn't have to be way avant-garde, just a different sound then what's prevelant today. Hopefully this is something that's not just a throwback either.
- On the flipside, that doesn't mean that I don't like avant-garde stuff. Anything goes. Again, just as long as it's unique.
- Please don't just give me a list of 20 bands or albums to check out. I'm likely not to check anything out on a list to be honest, so that doesn't really do any good. I'd like some description of the sound, why you like it and what makes it unique.
- It doesn't have to be a 2008 record (which is why I put this in this thread), but I would like it pretty recent.

I realize this is a pretty tall order, and I'm not expecting a ton of responses. I'd just like a few good, quality ones.

Sans. Have you considered checking out music outside the borders of US,Canada,Britain,Sweeden, and Germany?

Maybe you should travel the globe a little in your music pursuit.

Sans. I'm a little puzzled. What is it exactly you are looking for? Is it a different kind of production or a different kind of music?
As a Norwegian who is living in Slovenija, I could give you a few recommendations. I don't know very much about production techniques, though (I just know what I prefer), so I guess I wouldn't be able to describe the sound too much in detail.
There are a few quality bands here in Slovenija which blend rock, jazz and folk music from the region. They sing in Slovene, so they sure sound very different than Animal Collective and Sufjan Stevens. If that sounds interesting, I recommend you check out Katalena. You might even learn some Slovene

Another point:

Generally you run into the whole "same ol same ol" fiasco when you only delve so deep within a genre. While I know you've delved into post-punk, I don't know much more about your listening habits than that.

But, there's a ton of stuff going on in many different genres, although I feel the most alive one is the supergenre of electronic music. There's a ton going on in the noise circuit.

I am constantly finding new music which I enjoy and it has been a while since I've gone through a "I really reall need something fresh" phase, generally when I get to that state of mind I start with a genre's creation and work my way through the necessities until I get to that genre's current form... htne I delve at random into all the points in between. That keeps me busy for a long while and also gives me a great history lesson.

While I may not have given you anything specific to check out, maybe I've given you an idea of something that will help you find whatyou're looking for. It's hard to come across things that are honestly fresh, they're generally just fresh to your ears.

I feel we're all waiting for this decade to develop its own sound.... it has to happen at some point.

quote:

Originally posted by sans_success:
I don't exactly know what I'm looking for, but I'm totally sick of most of the music I'm hearing these days. New music, I mean. I'm tired of the same production techniques. I'm tired of the same vocals and lyrics. I'm tired of all of it....

I think situations like these usually have more to do with the mental state of the listener than with the music. I doubt if there's anything that you'll hear that'll suddenly make you feel different and sound fresh and great to you. Just give yourself some time, maybe give the music a break for a couple weeks, and you'll feel better about music I bet.

It's hard for me to make specific recommendations as I don't know exactly what you listen to, sans, but I know how you feel about the monotony of the most popular and hyped indie music today.

This may get me some hate from the anti-pop reactionaries here, but seriously: take a listen to some of the standard mundane radio crap. I can give you specific recommendations if you'd like, but I think it's worthwhile in general to take an independent and thoughtful listen to some of the music that tops the charts these days. You might be pleasantly surprised. At the very least it doesn't sound anything like Animal Collective, and it sure does evolve a hell of a lot faster than what tops the standard Pitchfork lists month after month.

I don't mean to be hating on modern indie rock at all. I love it as much as anyone, just trying to promote a broader perspective. And I very well know that there's endless amounts of indie rock that don't conform to that sound. But I can understand the frustration with the similarity of what's most frequently promoted around here and in other places, even if the bands really are as good as they say.

I also second JGlass's mention of electronic music.