I was thinking this would be an interesting subject for disucssion. Who are the geniuses of rock and roll? Not just talented and gifted, but true geniuses. There's probably not anyone on par with Mozart, but perhaps you disagree.
I'm of the belief that Jimi Hendrix was the closest thing Rock and Roll has had to a true genius. Brian Wilson and Bob Dylan possibly. The term gets thrown around a bunch with guys like Kevin Shields, but I think thats just hyperbole. What do you think?
You must have mis-read the topic. This isn't the "drunks who write bad poetry" thread. Just kidding, sort of. What is genius about Morrison lyrics? Bob Dylan was witty, insightful, referenced the Bible and other important works of literature. His songs have been covered and re-interpreted by thousands of other artists. Jim Morrison's lyrics were dark and cryptic and not much more. I'll give you that he was a controversial and charismatic frontman, but not much else. He's no more a genius than Marilyn Manson.
You're right. I never picked up on that, even though I've heard that song too many times. Maybe I'm missing something with Morrison. Still, Mozart was composing at age 4 or something. That's genius. I believe somebody like Hendrix was also born with similar God given talent. Jim Morrison, no.
Originally posted by Hophead: You're right. I never picked up on that, even though I've heard that song too many times. Maybe I'm missing something with Morrison. Still, Mozart was composing at age 4 or something. That's genius. I believe somebody like Hendrix was also born with similar God given talent. Jim Morrison, no.
I wouldn't go so far as to call Morrison a genius, but I wouldn't say he was without talent either. It seems to be unfashionable to like the Doors nowadays, but they've got some pretty great gems in their catalog.
----- We were wasps with new wings, now we're bugs in the jar.
Who has seen Ollie Stone's The Doors with an incredible performance by Val Kilmer as the film-student Jim Morrison? I jumped on the Doors bandwagon early. (I think I was 11.) The Velvet Underground was never played on the radio while the Doors were kickin' ass popular music-style. I said before that the Doors were the popular West Coast version of VU. But only the East Coast elitists knew who VU was. Remember, back then, the only way you'd know about VU, until at least 1969, was from Rolling Stone or Cream magazine. You wouldn't hear them on the radio, and remember, there weren't really any college radio stations. Now, I'll admit: when Andy Warhol devised the Banana Cover, that meant something to a few somebodies, but in 1967, 99.9% of people didn't even know who Warhol was!!
Musical Geniuses? I'm prejudiced, so I'll respond later, but the first one I'll mention from the 20th Century is Louis Armstrong. My dad knew early 20th-century music, and if he said so, plus proved it with some "samples", that's good enough for me.
"Naked Woman, Naked Man Where did you get that nice sun tan?"
Genius is a term that refers to extremely smart people. Unfortunately it is often true that extremely smart people might not have a creative bone in their body. I think it is also true that most very creative people are also smart. Usually very smart.
Mozart and Beethoven were definitely musical geniuses. So was Miles Davis. In the realm of modern music, I think it's better to comment on whether the music caused us to pay full, unexpected attention when we were prepared to just barely listen. Intelligence often produces complex thinking, but rock music is much more direct.
Every person has a different story as to which music made a big impression on him or her. I lived in a very conservative environment as a kid, but hearing Jimi Hendrix break every rule of polite guitar playing way back then got my complete attention, and more. In my book, Hendrix is a genius.
I remember hearing Bob Dylan singing for the first time and I didn't like it at first but it certainly caught my attention. After a while, I figured out that he was very special. He is the one modern artist that I think most deserves the label genius.
I also think the Neil Young is a genius when he plays his guitar, and that the Beatles were geniuses for the few years when they were producing music that made a lot of people go crazy.
I know that there are other modern musical geniuses, but it's easier to talk about them when you're not the only person that's ever heard of them. When it comes to music, especially modern music, genius is a word that is very subjective.
I saw a concert of the Nels Cline Singers. He plays the guitar in such a way that it seems he never heard another person ever play before. He does completely unique and original things with his technique. I would say he's a groundbreaker. In my mind, a genius. What he does with Wilco is not the same as his solo output. With Wilco, he seems restrained or handcuffed. Although Wilco does push some boundaries, they don't do it with the same reckless abandon and creative confidence that Nels does.
I actually got to meet Nels at that show and he's a really genuine person too. Not stuck up and not "artsy-fartsy" either. A little bit akward, but I'm sure I was acting equally akward.
I mentioned Brian Wilson earlier. It seems many times "geniuses" are described as troubled or having difficult times coping with reality. Certainly Wilson struggled for a while, which could or couldn't have had a lot to do with halucinagens. Still his talent is extraordinary. His ear for harmony and arrangement is certainly worthy of being mentioned in the same breath with any other musical genius of the past 50 years.
Obviously true as well. I never said drugs made Brian Wilson creative or a genius, though. My thoughts on Brian Wilson are similar to Sid Barrett. I think there was a pre-existing condition that lots of strong mind altering substances certainly didn't help.
Originally posted by Hophead: Don't you think LSD had at least a part in Brian Wilson's odd behavior and anxiety?
Are you inferring that being bi-polar and genius are tied?
Yes. Institutions such as Johns Hopkins have studied this extensively. There are several medical journals, books, etc. related to the subject. Not all geniuses are bipolar, and not all bipolars are geniuses, but the frequency at which they occur together has removed coincidence from the equation.
Yes. Institutions such as Johns Hopkins have studied this extensively. There are several medical journals, books, etc. related to the subject. Not all geniuses are bipolar, and not all bipolars are geniuses, but the frequency at which they occur together has removed coincidence from the equation.
Being Bi-polar is so over-diagnosed these days. Eveyone's on Prozac or Lexapro or something. Sorry to sound so Tom Cruise. I don't doubt you're right that real bi-polar disease and genius are related.
