I listened to Tragic Kingdom by No Doubt the other day, for the first time in years.
To my surprise, I still enjoyed it.
I don't know what the hell's going on in Stefani's head right now. It's like they took her character and construct these elaborate pop idol images for her, because it worked for Madonna.
But whereas Madonna's reinventions were just sort of personality-fashions, Stefani takes it to ridiculous extremes. First she does that 'muse' junk, and I don't even know what the hell her image is supposed to be now.
And who else do you have evidence is capable of producing good music, but due to record industry intervention, is just producing total junk that looks pretty?
I wouldn't say Gwen Stefani's a victim of anything. It's not as if No Doubt was ever an edgy, underground band. They were just working a different side of the pop game. "Just a Girl" was as much of a pop song as "Hollaback Girl". She just used a band instead of a Neptunes track.
----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter.
Gwen probably has MORE say regarding what she records now than she did when they were making Tragic Kingdom. That record sold 10 million copies, and hit #1. The followup hit #2. Her last solo record did pretty well, too. I would guess she's got pretty strong veto power these days, given the number of records she's sold in the last ten years. Maybe her taste in music has veered away from ska-pop to something different...is the point supposed to be that it's obvious that the record industry has gotten its claws in her because she's doing something new? Or is that you think the new stuff sucks and you assume that Gwen CAN'T be to blame?
The new stuff is solo. Maybe the music she makes with her band is different from the music she wants to make on her own.
It's true Tragic Kingdom is just as 'pop' as her newer solo stuff, but it was at least more distinctive, instead of seeming like somebody's trying to cram it into a 'pop with street cred' pigeonhole.
If it's indeed Stefani who's coming up with these corny images for herself, then it's her who's destroying her own credibility.
Originally posted by Art Vandelay: It's true Tragic Kingdom is just as 'pop' as her newer solo stuff, but it was at least more distinctive, instead of seeming like somebody's trying to cram it into a 'pop with street cred' pigeonhole.
If it's indeed Stefani who's coming up with these corny images for herself, then it's her who's destroying her own credibility.
The latter's dead-on. But her current image is still better than slutty teen-pop 'artists' like Brooke Hogan and (ugh) Paris Hilton.
I'm not sure about the former. I think "Hollaback Girl" is far more distinctive than the ska-pop of mid-period No Doubt. I PREFER mid-period No Doubt, but there was something quite insidiously catchy about "Hollaback Girl." And that ballad from her first solo record sounded like a No Doubt ballad. Honestly, I could probably find a half-dozen mid 90's girl-fronted ska-pop bands that No Doubt was similar to. The one that leaps to mind is Save Ferris, but I know I've seen and heard at least a few more.
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I'm not sure about the former. I think "Hollaback Girl" is far more distinctive than the ska-pop of mid-period No Doubt. I PREFER mid-period No Doubt, but there was something quite insidiously catchy about "Hollaback Girl."
I'm pretty indifferent about Stefani given she could simply not exist and the world would be exactly as it is today, minus one catchy single and a pretty face to stick on the kinda-sorta-ska revival of the mid-90s. I'd probably think more highly of her if No Doubt disappeared around 97/98/99—their trudging through the early oughts erased any nostalgia I feel.
I'll admit, though, and maybe it's because the 90s were my most formative years, but 90s alternative radio was reasonably tolerable. More so than what I remember playing in the 80s; I won't bother going on about the 00s beyond this period ->.
I remember when No Doubt was nominated for Best New Artist. One of the guys was asked about it (on MTV probably); he said something like, "New? I've been doing this 10 years." I thought that was great.
Originally posted by m.leland: I remember when No Doubt was nominated for Best New Artist. One of the guys was asked about it (on MTV probably); he said something like, "New? I've been doing this 10 years." I thought that was great.
That was akin to Fountains of Wayne being nominated for a best new artist Grammy in 2003 for Welcome Interstate Managers. What's funny about that is that it was their THIRD major label record, and they'd even had a moderate pop radio hit in 1996 with "Radiation Vibe."
I can't really pick on Stefani. I've liked a few of the No Doubt singles, but I'm with Vykro in digging "Hollaback Girl." But I haven't sat down and LISTENED to whole albums by either Stefani or No Doubt. Maybe the solo stuff does suck past "Hollaback," but I'm not sure why it's fair to jump to blaming the 'industry' past scapegoating.
What strikes me about the general tone of the discussion is that it seems to follow this general form:
1. Artist A makes albums a,b,c in style X. 2. Person G enjoys albums a,b,c. 3. Artist A (or member of A) then makes album d in style Y. 4. Album d is displeasing to Person G's ear.
Therefore,
5. The 'industry' or 'selling out' is to blame for said style change, and, by extension, the suckage of album d.
Stefani has been recording for the same major label for over a decade now, so it seems odd to assume that she was a 'victim of the record industry' for making albums in a new style. Maybe I'm missing something, but the references to 'they' in Art's opening salvo seem to indicate that Gwen has nothing to do with her solo career, music, or public persona. I'm just not sure that's true.
That was akin to Fountains of Wayne being nominated for a best new artist Grammy in 2003 for Welcome Interstate Managers. What's funny about that is that it was their THIRD major label record, and they'd even had a moderate pop radio hit in 1996 with "Radiation Vibe."
Ha, yeah. I remember an intern where I worked in 2003 talking about "Stacy's Mom". I said I hadn't heard it, and he said it was by Fountains of Wayne.
Originally posted by ericg75: It's not as if No Doubt was ever an edgy, underground band.
Really? That's what I thought they were when I was in high school (class of '93). My brother was a huge fan at that time and I had no idea why he would like a ska band (he had to explain that to me at the time) with a chick singer. I was full on grunge mode like everyone else. No Doubt was definitely underground, as far as pop goes.
********************** Metal-Archives POTD
quote:
im looking for pretty much the most uninspired/unoriginal brutal and/or slam death. with little or no variation in vocals. stuff like disgorge(us) and condemned.
Originally posted by ericg75: It's not as if No Doubt was ever an edgy, underground band.
Really? That's what I thought they were when I was in high school (class of '93). My brother was a huge fan at that time and I had no idea why he would like a ska band (he had to explain that to me at the time) with a chick singer. I was full on grunge mode like everyone else. No Doubt was definitely underground, as far as pop goes.
I have a really hard time calling No Doubt a ska band. It's like calling Eminem a black person. You can shut your eyes and try to pretend, but you know it's not true.
Well, on "No Doubt" they were closer to it. I'm not saying they still are.
********************** Metal-Archives POTD
quote:
im looking for pretty much the most uninspired/unoriginal brutal and/or slam death. with little or no variation in vocals. stuff like disgorge(us) and condemned.
I remember first hearing No Doubt in the mid 90s when alt-ska was trendy and bands like Sublime, Save Ferris,and the Mighty Mighty Bosstones were big. Still, it seemed like that stuff was all over MTV and the radio. I don't ever remember it being all that edgy. My gf at the time had Tragic Kingdom and she wasn't very edgy at all.
----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter.
Originally posted by ericg75: I remember first hearing No Doubt in the mid 90s when alt-ska was trendy and bands like Sublime, Save Ferris,and the Mighty Mighty Bosstones were big. Still, it seemed like that stuff was all over MTV and the radio. I don't ever remember it being all that edgy. My gf at the time had Tragic Kingdom and she wasn't very edgy at all.
Don't even get me started on Sublime and Save Ferris.
Originally posted by ericg75: I remember first hearing No Doubt in the mid 90s when alt-ska was trendy and bands like Sublime, Save Ferris,and the Mighty Mighty Bosstones were big. Still, it seemed like that stuff was all over MTV and the radio. I don't ever remember it being all that edgy. My gf at the time had Tragic Kingdom and she wasn't very edgy at all.
Like I said, No Doubt was around well before the mid-90's. I remember them coming to Palo Alto in 1991 or 92.
********************** Metal-Archives POTD
quote:
im looking for pretty much the most uninspired/unoriginal brutal and/or slam death. with little or no variation in vocals. stuff like disgorge(us) and condemned.
