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Originally posted by PRG:

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Originally posted by b0arder753:
Roxy Music was Brian Eno's band, right? What would you reccomend PRG?

Eno was on their first two albums, but Bryan Ferry was really their "founder." The Eno stuff is good, but the three they made after he left are definitely their best. They are Stranded, Country Life, and Siren.

Then they didn't make another for like four or five years, and when Manifesto was released, let's just say it wasn't the same. Their line-up was different and they never captured the same sound. They released one more before Avalon, which was a commercial success, but was still lightyears away from the three they put out in the mid-seventies. Rumor has it the original members (maybe with Eno, maybe not), will be releasing an album this year.

I'm really diggin Roxy Music.. listening to Stranded right now... it's really good. I keep hearin some Jello Biafra in his voice and it's trippin me out haha.

I've also been reliving my fave moments of pre-punk, and Roxy Music is at the forefront. Stranded is really starting to sound like Bryan Ferry's most confessional album ever...hell, it might be anybody's most-confessional album...

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Posted by TigerG:
The only real gap in my collection remains mostly anything Metal and I welcome any way into it that anyone can suggest.

For great industrial metal, check out Tool, it is sort of a gimme, but if you want to get into metal, start with Tool. The lyrics are always symbolic and intelligent, and the musicianship is stellar, particularly the drummer danny carrey.

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Originally posted by crazed:

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Originally posted by The Friar:
blues, i have no idea here, but it is definitely a musical gap.

There are some great collections on the Fat Possum label entitled Not the Same Old Blues Crap. These usually feature such artists as T-Model Ford, Jr.Kimbrough, R.L.Burnside, Robert Belfour and Asie Payton. Excellent electric delta & country blues. Chess, Blind Pig and Alligator records have some great v/a comps that can help you pick out those blues styles and artists you would most enjoy. Myself, it's very difficult picking a favorite blues artist, though Albert Collins and Buddy Guy come first to mind. Have fun exploring this genre. Too bad we don't have a blues forum on the board.

I have to agree with the Fat Possum label stuff - love it. there is also a great documentry about the artists on Fat Possum that i would recommend called "You See Me Laughing"

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Originally posted by mark f:
I've also been reliving my fave moments of pre-punk, and Roxy Music is at the forefront. Stranded is really starting to sound like Bryan Ferry's most confessional album ever...hell, it might be anybody's most-confessional album...

I recently have been listening to Eno's first two solo records 'Here come the warm jets' & Taking tiger mountain' both both perfect albums and on the lines of the early Roxy Music stuff. I have to say though, I never did get into Eno's ambient stuff.

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Originally posted by The Friar:
now that electronica has been filled up to the brim, at least for a few days, any suggestions for:
jazz, i really don't like the big band sort of jazz, it just is annoying sounding. If there is anything sort of guitar oriented jazz, please tell me.
blues, i have no idea here, but it is definitely a musical gap.

Well the classic jazz albums that everyone should own:

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
John Coltrane - Love Supreme & Blue Train
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um
Dave Brubeck - Time Out

As for Jazz Guitar:

Wes Montgomery: Incredible Jazz Guitar
Joe Pass: Virtuoso
Django Reinhardt
Grant Green: Grant's First Stand / Matador / Idle Moments

Jazz is one of those genres that has sooo many sub-genres like blues. You have to find what satifies your taste-buds

Fusion
Free Jazz
New Orleans
Dixieland
Ragtime
Soul Jazz
Smooth Jazz
Latin Jazz
Brazilian JAzz
Cuban Jazz
Bop
Big Band / Swing

and many more

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Originally posted by Mike:

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Posted by TigerG:
The only real gap in my collection remains mostly anything Metal and I welcome any way into it that anyone can suggest.

For great industrial metal, check out Tool, it is sort of a gimme, but if you want to get into metal, start with Tool. The lyrics are always symbolic and intelligent, and the musicianship is stellar, particularly the drummer danny carrey.

I have always liked the sound of the couple of Tool songs that I have heard but I saw a couple of their music vids once and found them so nightmarish that I shuddered and have not explored this band as a result.

I am feeling adventurous and will get past this foolishness tho - is there any Tool album in particular anyone can recommend? The more complex and intelligent and (relatively) less grindingly dark the better.

I would suggest Lateralus or 10,000 Days for Tool's less dark albums, but the earlier, darker, albums are wonderful if you are interested. Also check out Maynards side project A Perfect Circle's Mer De Noms and Thirteenth Step, I would suggest starting with A Perfect Circle's Thirteenth Step and then moving on to Mer De Noms, then Lateralus, that would be the easiest transition.

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Originally posted by Mike:
I would suggest Lateralus or 10,000 Days for Tool's less dark albums, but the earlier, darker, albums are wonderful if you are interested. Also check out Maynards side project A Perfect Circle's Mer De Noms and Thirteenth Step, I would suggest starting with A Perfect Circle's Thirteenth Step and then moving on to Mer De Noms, then Lateralus, that would be the easiest transition.

Thanks for that Mike. I have heard some of Perfect Circle's songs some time ago and they didn't grab me - but I now remember a Tool fan also recommending lateralus to me so I think I'll dive straight in with Lateralus and check out the earlier stuff if the love grows...

Okay my musical gap is "Bop" - I love early and classic jazz, I love big band - including some of the later big bands like Count Basie and Dizzie Gillespie. I even like and appreciate Cool Jazz. While I don't like a lot of fussion and free jazz - I am thinking I am missing something with my gaps in Bop.

I have the obvious bop records by Cannonball Adderley, John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, and Thelonious Monk.

What recommendations do people have as an introduction to bebop?

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Originally posted by Ralph M:
What recommendations do people have as an introduction to bebop?

OK, let's see. For specific artists that really exemplified the BeBop (Bop) style, I would go for artists like Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, Oscar Peterson, Bud Powell, Max Roach, and like you already mentioned Dizzy Gillespie. Now of course, some (Bird and Diz) were well-known for Bop and in turn did more, while others (Monk and Peterson) didn't do as much Bop. Here are some albums that I highly recommend:
--Miles Davis' Birth of the Cool
--An amazing album by a group called "The Quintet" which included the unbeatable team of Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie, pianist Bud Powell, Mingus on bass and Roach on drums. An all-star cast indeed. The CD features great versions "Salt Peanuts" and my personal favorite of Gillepie's "A Night In Tunisia." This is an essential recording. I believe the album was called Jazz at Massey Hall. This was in 1953 which should help hunting it down.
--Miles Davis' Cookin'
--Thelonious Monk's The Complete Blue Note Recordings
--Sonny Rollins' Way Out West

Hopefully that helps out some, let me know if it does

I like early jazz and big band too, but as soon as it gets to bebop or anything more improvisational, I just can't stand it. After reevaluating metal last year, this is the only music left which I just cannot find anything good in. I have tried many times, but I just get too irritated by the music to be able to listen to it. As my grandfather says: "It is just a lot of notes thrown into a bag, shaken, and then let loose again."

Thanks for the specific album recommendations. Since many jazz artists have recorded under different styles - it is helpful to know which particular albums best represent the Bop style.

I have and really like "Birth of Cool" by Miles Davis. I'll be sure to check out "Cookin'"

I also have "The Complete Blue Note Recordings" by Thelonious Monk and have found that harder going. I think that large collections like this are hard for the novice who is just getting into a style of music. I have a similar problem with Charlie Parker - everybody tells me he is great - but my introduction to him was "The complete Dial sessions" There has got to be a better way to ease into Charlie Parker.

I have an Dizzy Gillespie album "The Quintet" from 1953 - and I agree that is a great sound - but that has not turned me on to Charlie Parker.
Are you familiar with the Acid band "Liquid Soul" - they introduced me to "Salt Peanuts" which in turn got me into the Dizzy Gillespie - funny how music works.

I know nothing about Sonny Rollins - see my ignorance with this type of music - what instrument did he play?

I hate to say this but maybe you just can’t get into Charlie Parker, he was a visionary unlike many others and like I have said before: you can take any of his solos and as technically difficult as they might sound, every single note he played makes absolute sense. If it has been this hard for you to get into Bebop and more specifically Bird, it might be a lost cause. I will offer some specific Charlie Parker albums:
--Bird and Pres
--His self-titled album
--Bird and Diz
And maybe a collection entitled, Bird/The Savoy Recordings (Master Takes). This is an awesome collection that include Bird soloing on classics such as “Milestones,” “Thriving on a Riff,” and my personally favorite of Parker’s, “Donna Lee.”

As for Rollins, he started on piano, moved to alto, but his greatest success was on Tenor Sax where he is honestly one of the best. Some albums that you definitely check out and just buy are
--Saxophone Colossus
--Way Out West
He is a jazz giant in his own right and could play many different styles while still sounding amazing.

You could also check out the other three accompanying albums ending in “in’” by Miles Davis that include Relaxin’, Steamin’, and Workin’.

As much as a towering giant as Monk was and is, I don’t know nearly as much about him as I should. I know that it took him a long time to get some type of recognition and he also had a quartet with a little guy named John Coltrane—he was ok too. Here are some albums of his to check out:
--Brilliant Corners (this has Sonny Rollins on sax)
--Either of his Genius of Modern Music volumes
--Pure Monk

Let me know how any of these pan out, hopefully I helped out some.

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Originally posted by Malondron:
As my grandfather says: "It is just a lot of notes thrown into a bag, shaken, and then let loose again."

Hogwash, simply absurd. This is not what jazz nor improvisation is—not at all. It takes a keen ear to know when someone is just playing random notes and is merely making a fool out of themselves. But you should be able to hear solos and appreciate them as beautiful music. Sure, maybe you just don't "get" jazz and that is fine, but that comment just doesn't cut it for me—no need for that at all.

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Originally posted by FragileKidA:

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Originally posted by Malondron:
As my grandfather says: "It is just a lot of notes thrown into a bag, shaken, and then let loose again."

Hogwash, simply absurd. This is not what jazz nor improvisation is—not at all. It takes a keen ear to know when someone is just playing random notes and is merely making a fool out of themselves. But you should be able to hear solos and appreciate them as beautiful music. Sure, maybe you just don't "get" jazz and that is fine, but that comment just doesn't cut it for me—no need for that at all.

Oh, come on. Lighten up a bit. I know that solos and improvisation is not just that, but for an untrained ear, that is exactly what it sounds like. Just like modern art music (Xenakis making blue prints into music anyone?) demands a slightly more trained ear to appreciate fully. Really, doesn't your comment: "It takes a keen ear to know when someone is just playing random notes and is merely making a fool out of themselves." sort of validate my grandfathers comment? If you are feeling so strongly about it though, tell me and I will delete my comment.

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Originally posted by vitunkrapula:
Sounds a tad elitist to me. I appreciate all kinds of tonalities, modalities, atonalities, sound masses, etc, but I think it's silly to say someone's making a fool out of his or her self just because they are playing 'random notes.' And even sillier to congratulate oneself on having a 'keen ear' for calling people fools for playing 'random notes.' When the boundaries of conventional jazz began to stretch with the advent of bop, hard bop, free jazz, whatever, I'm fairly sure it sounded exaclty like 'random notes' to the unaccustomed ear (and because it was such a new thing I would also bet that the majority of ears around {keen tho they may be} heard the new thing as random notes). Just like when you hear a new foreign language spoken it sounds like gibberish at first. It may take lots of listening practice, but for the sake of universal peace and harmony (heh) I would recommend not speaking so highly of 'keen ears' and 'getting' it as if that makes you a better person, because really it doesn't.

I am pretty laid back, but that comment is a stab at a type of music that I love and am actually deeply studying to be able to teach one day. Maybe you get my point now, if you dont then forget it or just PM me, I dont want to get into it here.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FragileKidA,

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It takes a keen ear to know when someone is just playing random notes and is merely making a fool out of themselves. But you should be able to hear solos and appreciate them as beautiful music. Sure, maybe you just don't "get" jazz and that is fine, but that comment just doesn't cut it for me—no need for that at all.

Sounds a tad elitist to me. I appreciate all kinds of tonalities, modalities, atonalities, sound masses, etc, but I think it's silly to say someone's making a fool out of his or her self just because they are playing 'random notes.' And even sillier to congratulate oneself on having a 'keen ear' for calling people fools for playing 'random notes.' When the boundaries of conventional jazz began to stretch with the advent of bop, hard bop, free jazz, whatever, I'm fairly sure it sounded exaclty like 'random notes' to the unaccustomed ear (and because it was such a new thing I would also bet that the majority of ears around {keen tho they may be} heard the new thing as random notes). Just like when you hear a new foreign language spoken it sounds like gibberish at first. It may take lots of listening practice, but for the sake of universal peace and harmony (heh) I would recommend not speaking so highly of 'keen ears' and 'getting' it as if that makes you a better person, because really it doesn't.

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Originally posted by vitunkrapula:

Sounds a tad elitist to me. I appreciate all kinds of tonalities, modalities, atonalities, sound masses, etc, but I think it's silly to say someone's making a fool out of his or her self just because they are playing 'random notes.' And even sillier to congratulate oneself on having a 'keen ear' for calling people fools for playing 'random notes.' When the boundaries of conventional jazz began to stretch with the advent of bop, hard bop, free jazz, whatever, I'm fairly sure it sounded exaclty like 'random notes' to the unaccustomed ear (and because it was such a new thing I would also bet that the majority of ears around {keen tho they may be} heard the new thing as random notes). Just like when you hear a new foreign language spoken it sounds like gibberish at first. It may take lots of listening practice, but for the sake of universal peace and harmony (heh) I would recommend not speaking so highly of 'keen ears' and 'getting' it as if that makes you a better person, because really it doesn't.

[QUOTE] I am pretty laid back, but that comment is a stab at a type of music that I love and am actually deeply studying to be able to teach one day. Maybe you get my point now, if you dont then forget it or just PM me, I dont want to get into it here.

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Originally posted by FragileKidA:
I hate to say this but maybe you just can’t get into Charlie Parker

As for Rollins, ... Some albums that you definitely check out and just buy are
--Saxophone Colossus
--Way Out West
He is a jazz giant in his own right and could play many different styles while still sounding amazing.

You could also check out the other three accompanying albums ending in “in’” by Miles Davis that include Relaxin’, Steamin’, and Workin’.

Let me know how any of these pan out, hopefully I helped out some.

My feeling is that I haven't given Charlie Parker a chance - musical taste is subjective - I enjoy classical music - but I don't like Mozart who is generally considered a genius. I take it as a good sign when I have listen to a group of music enough to form my own opinions.

However I know that a lot of people don't like some modern music for symphonies that was written in the 90's with a lot of atonal structure. My ear, trained with the sounds of punk music was able to hear the beauty of these more modern compositions.

I have ordered Rollins "Way Out West" - so we will see how that goes. I have had good luck with Miles Davis (he is such a giant) in the past - so I'll check out some of your suggestions in that area.

I didn't mean to start off a passionate discussion - it was just for what ever reason that of my medium size jazz collection I have only a few Bop albums. Since I like some of the artists who perform in the bop style - I think it is a gap worth my time to explore. Even if it doesn't become one of my musical homes, it is nice to visit a foreign place now and again.

Thanks