I'm no expert on music production, but I will say that I like to hear my music clearly. I cannot standit when someone insists that tape hiss improves an album. Album's I think have suffered from poor production:
--Every pre-Tallahassee Mountain Goats record --Iron and Wine's "The Creek and the Cradle"
-------------------------------------------------- Anatomy to me is a homesick stomach and a broken heart
Originally posted by keylimetrev: What albums do you think could have been great, but were taken down a notch or two by bad production?
My votes are:
Husker Du - Zen Arcade
Lambchop - Aw Cmon/ No You Cmon
ALL Husker records have a tinny sound that makes them much less effective than they could have been, particularly after seeing the band tear it up live.
I'm not sure what part of the production of the Lambchop records you don't like...I don't notice a strong production difference between these two and Is a Woman, but there's certainly a difference in the kinds of songs on the record (piano ballads versus a melange of soul, funk, and pop). Fill me on what I'm missing here...
Agreed that all Husker albums are badly produced. Seems to me that the production works most against Zen Arcade though. Somehow, I don't find it nearly as intrusive on New Day Rising for instance.
My problem with the Lambchop records is the strings. I think they overdid them on a lot of the songs. I don't know why, but I keep imagining that there must be some absolutely brilliant demos of those songs out there. I still listen to those albums constantly (last night in fact) and love them, but I just have this mysterious alternate take running through my head whenever I hear them. It is actually the same problem I have with Modern Sounds in County & Western. If the stings (and the background chorus on C&W) were taken off, the songs would shine just a little bit brighter for me.
On another note, I forgot one of my least favorite productions. Stage Fright by The Band. After Music From Big Pink and the Brown Album (which is my official favorite album of all time)I can't believe that the songs lost so much of their edge on Stage Fright. 'The Shape I'm In' could have been one of the great road songs of all time, but the production makes it sound weak by embracing some of the worst techniques of the 70s. I hear there is an alternate mix that is much better, but it has a pretty steep price tag I havn't been able to cover yet.
If we're on The Band, how about 'Northern Lights, Southern Cross'?
The Band's style does not work when you've got such heavy synthesizers.
And how about Beatles white album? There was so much in-fighting that they couldn't work together to produce an efficient set of songs. I don't know how 'Why Don't We Do It In The Road?' got included...
My problem with the Lambchop records is the strings. I think they overdid them on a lot of the songs. I don't know why, but I keep imagining that there must be some absolutely brilliant demos of those songs out there.
Ah. I actually like the strings, but I would LOVE to hear the stringless versions of the songs for a counterpoint.
Speaking of synths, I was listening to some early Waterboys records the other day, and I realized that the synth sounds on the first three records (and on the first World Party record) take away from the organic quality of some of those songs. I still like those records a lot, but they sound so very 80's (which is fine, but not for folk-rock). When they took on, with the third record, a U2-styled arena rock, the synths had receded some, making the songs less dated. Then they hit Fisherman's Blues and they skyrocketed to greatness...
I've heard that Cheap Trick - In Color is one of those albums that would be a classic if it weren't for the wimpy production. I've heard the piano-based album version of "I Want You To Want Me", and was appalled at how much worse it was than the rocking At Budokan version.
There's one album that I think was *improved* by bad production.
Rolling Stones - Exile on Main St.
It's in my top five albums of all time, but one time my father told me the Stones thought the vocals were mixed too low. But, I think the heavy mixing of the instrumentals made it better.
Yeah i agree with Husker Du. I bought an album by them based on reputation (though i didn't know their music previously), i remember commenting to my friend who was a guitarist, they sound like the home demos you've recorded.
Originally posted by keylimetrev: Bruce Springsteen - Born in the USA
Concur. The material holds up great live, but the signature 80s production is really grating.
I'll add two more, Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J. and The Wild, The Innocent, & The E Street Shuffle. As I was posting in the Rock Debuts thread, I was considering the fact that there was a great debut buried in the horrible, horrible production of Greetings. Born to Run is a landmark achievement, but I think no small part of its impact lies in the fact that it was the first album in his catalog to catch anything even approaching the sound and impact of his live performances.
I agree with Bob's post that "Exile" is helped by bad production. I don't think that album has the Stone's best songs, but the fact that is sounds like 5 guys rocking out in a basement (which it is) makes it a classic.
I agree about the Bruce Springsteen posts too. I know Bruce is an excellent songwriter-- Just listen to Nebraska-- but so much of his stuff is marred by over-the-top hokey production.
On a similar note, I think the production on Leonard Cohen's stuff kind of sucks too.
Kurt Cobain famously said he hated the production on "Nevermind"-- that it sounded too polished. I wonder what it would've sounded like had they gotten Steve Albini, who did "In Utero"
----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter.
Kurt Cobain famously said he hated the production on "Nevermind"-- that it sounded too polished. I wonder what it would've sounded like had they gotten Steve Albini, who did "In Utero"
...even more of a Pixies rip-off than it already is
Kurt Cobain famously said he hated the production on "Nevermind"-- that it sounded too polished. I wonder what it would've sounded like had they gotten Steve Albini, who did "In Utero"
...even more of a Pixies rip-off than it already is
lmao...good point.
----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter.
i love Husker Du, and I would not say that their albums are ruined by production. It definitely does not do them justice though. All of their albums could benefit from better quality production though. Their music sounds so small with their tinny production.
I would add Guided by Voices to the list. While "Bee Thousand" and "Alien Lanes" are great albums, I'd imagine if they had been recorded with the production quality of their later stuff like "Do the Collapse" or "Isolation Drills", they'd be undeniable masterpieces.
----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter.
Originally posted by ericg75: I would add Guided by Voices to the list. While "Bee Thousand" and "Alien Lanes" are great albums, I'd imagine if they had been recorded with the production quality of their later stuff like "Do the Collapse" or "Isolation Drills", they'd be undeniable masterpieces.
NO!!!!!!! This is part of what made GBV so great. A beer guzzling elementary school teacher and his drinking buddies create crazy, catchy music in his basement for a decade, until they make an album so insanely great that even the close-minded, cynical, grunge-era mainstream press can't ignore it. Bee Thousand is a perfect album. It was music created by a band who had no real commercial intentions, who made music simply because they loved making music. When I hear the tape hiss, choppy edits, etc., it's just a reminder of that fact. Right now, what we refer to as "indie" rock sorely needs another GBV.
I knew somebody would reply with this. Guided by Voices is a great band because Bob Pollard and Tobin Sprout were great songwriters. Their music is great despite bad production, not because of it. You can listen to "Game of Pricks" and say,"Hey, this song rules" even though it sounds like it was recorded with a mini-cassette recorder. I'm just saying with slightly better production, I think they could've enjoyed some real commercial success.
It is possible to have a well produced album and not be a sellout. Modest Mouse, for instance, made a huge leap in terms of production quality with "The Moon & Antarctica", and that's an excellent album, arguably their best.
----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter.
Yes, Pollard and Sprout were great songwriters. Although I really enjoy latter day GBV, I attribute their slight decline in quality to the loss of Sprout, and not the addition of fancier recording techniques. You bring up a good argument by mentioning "Game of Pricks". If you listen to the single version, also available on the best of album Human Amusements at Hourly Rates, it is much cleaner and more rocking. It does sound great, but it does lack the homemade charm of the Alien Lanes version. I suppose it's just a question of preference.
I'm not an indie snob when it comes to well produced albums. I would agree the The Moon and Antarctica is the equal of any Modest Mouse album, and I can point out numerous artists who have made better records after having access to better studios or producers. For instance, Tallahassee is my favorite of the Mountain Goats records I've heard, and it's one of their more produced albums. On the other hand, I can point out indie albums that are worse because of their production. I agree with Trev that the Husker Du albums sound bad, and that affects how much I listen to them.
One 2007 record that comes to mind when i think about bad production is Liars - s/t. I also think about Arcade Fire - Neon Bible. The arcade fire record sounds like they have recorded at the back of an underground cathedral stage.
