quote:

Originally posted by sh6ne:

quote:

Originally posted by thetreesgetwheeledaway:
ok so. Question. At what point does professing a hatred for rap and calling it "stupid" become racism? It is so tied up in african-american youth culture that I think that white 30-somethings should be very cautious when judging it. Personally, I enjoy a lot of it. Even some of the mainstream stuff appeals to me and Dr. Dre's 2001 is one of my favorite albums ever.

at what point does your reply become reverse racism?

People who judge shit with a knee jerk reaction are STUPID. I say, scratch out the "white 30-somethings" part and just say people in general should be cautious... Cos' I'm sure that not every African American enjoys hip-hop, and some probably dislike it for reasons just as bad as any white 30-something.

I hate reading ignorant shit. Half of you fucks dropping bombs on the rap genre who speak about the necessities of instruments and lack of creativity couldn't analyze two bars of lyrics in any song, let alone even tap your foot on time. A lot of know-it-alls will preach "rap sucks" without making any significant argument. Stop pretending you know a thing about music...

Let me put it on record that I am NOT, without a shadow of a doubt, defending the majority of mainstream rap. There's definately a lot of garbage getting spins across America, like Hurricane Chris (A Bay Bay) and Mims (This Is Why I'm Hot) but even hip hop pop culture has its distinguished. Jay-Z emits what most can describe as an unrivaled swagger and charisma that's made him a multi-million dollar icon but can still spit raw metaphors and display a distinctive flow that's kept hardcore rap purists loyal. Start with Reasonable Doubt, through The Blueprint and make your way to The Black Album and LISTEN. He has some of the best material in rap history. Then we have the animated folks like Busta Rhymes and Ludacris that have the same urban poetic edge that a lot of you say hip hop's "lost" in its long history. You don't listen.

Nas said it. "Hip Hop Is Dead." Ironically, even he says in the album that it's far from it. The concept of hip hop is making its second coming to those who look for a message and substance. What, haven't you heard? Even alternative hip hop's been getting spins and gaining a substantially large audience. You haven't heard of Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Lupe Fiasco, or Kanye West??? Stick your head out of your window and you might hear someone playing it in their Volkswagen's stereo.

It's easy to pick apart what you hear on the radio. Most pop music is raw garbage but it boggles my mind how rap gets the most heat. Half of your beloved rock bands have even less to say... Hoobastank? Linkin Park? Daughtry? Even with a message inbetween the bars of a song none of those in particular ever have anything deep to say or use any creative wordplay. Even the use of instruments are mediocre, to say the least. Hell, I can tell you that I've never played a guitar in my life before it took me the two minutes to learn the melody in Linkin Park's lead single in their new album.

I hated rap for years. My response to people that asked my musical interests would be "I like everything but rap." But then I realized that my only exposure to rap music was what I heard on the radio while flipping channels, and in movies. And as I grew up I noticed that I actually did't like any the music that makes it to the radio, rap or otherwise. So I decided to do some digging. Once I got past the bigtime fame seekers and the attitude laden posers I found some really respectable material. I also realized that rap and hip hop has a whole lot in common with techno and dance music, which I really enjoy.

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Originally posted by Frame:
It's easy to pick apart what you hear on the radio. Most pop music is raw garbage but it boggles my mind how rap gets the most heat. Half of your beloved rock bands have even less to say... Hoobastank? Linkin Park? Daughtry?

You make some good points. It's true that rap seems to get disproportionately bad press. If you'll look at my post above, you'll see that I had already argued that, like most genres, an awful lot of the mainstream stuff is the musical equivalent of McDonald's: filling, tastes OK initially, but bad for you, and ultimately unsatisfying. However, if you think people here are listening, by and large, to Hoobastank and Linkin Park, you've got the wrong forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Frame:
I hate reading ignorant shit. Half of you fucks dropping bombs on the rap genre who speak about the necessities of instruments and lack of creativity couldn't analyze two bars of lyrics in any song, let alone even tap your foot on time.

Something tells me that you'll get your point across better if you don't refer to the people reading you as "fucks" who write "ignorant shit." Ad hominem attacks make you seem belligerent and stupid, and encourage people to ignore your points.

That said, I think rap today is, in many ways, in the same place that hard rock was in, in 1988. It had been around long enough that, as a genre, it was on the other side of mature. The giants had already mined the genre for what it was worth, and the people still practicing it were (musical) conservatives, cannibalizing cliches, and reheating left overs. What rap needs is the hip hop Nirvana, that can come in, tear down all the walls, and start fresh.

quote:

That said, I think rap today is, in many ways, in the same place that hard rock was in, in 1988. It had been around long enough that, as a genre, it was on the other side of mature.

Folks who have their heads buried deep enough in the sand to be able to sincerely parrot this "rap sucks" garbage are not going to change their minds, so I hesitated to reply to this thread at all. But Kendo, though I don't believe you're that type of person, I do think Frame is right: if you think Kanye West, Mos Def, MF DOOM, Aesop Rock, Mr. Lif, Jay-Z, Nas, Talib Kweli, Clipse, and Edan releasing records within one or two years of each other is the same as late-80s hair metal putrefecation, you need to start listening. And if, in fact, a hip hop Nirvana does come along--that is, a musically unsophisticated act that births a generation of hip-hop Nickelbacks and Gavin Rosdales--the comparison will be more flattering to Cobain's memory than it will to the rapper who inspires it.

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Originally posted by Bryan_K:
But Kendo, though I don't believe you're that type of person, I do think Frame is right: if you think Kanye West, Mos Def, MF DOOM, Aesop Rock, Mr. Lif, Jay-Z, Nas, Talib Kweli, Clipse, and Edan releasing records within one or two years of each other is the same as late-80s hair metal putrefecation, you need to start listening. And if, in fact, a hip hop Nirvana does come along--that is, a musically unsophisticated act that births a generation of hip-hop Nickelbacks and Gavin Rosdales--the comparison will be more flattering to Cobain's memory than it will to the rapper who inspires it.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. You'll notice that I never did say that I thought it sucked. And, honestly, my interest in rap did begin to wane after the second wave (NWA, PE, Dre and Snoop, earlier Roots, Tupac) when it seemed to me that it was slumping. I still think that Jay-Z's best work is behind him, and many of the mainstream artists are recycling cliches. However, I like what I've heard of Aesop Rock's newest and The Clipse's latest, and have always respected Mos Def and Talib Kweli's work, mostly as Black Star. I'm sure there is a whole raft of interesting and innovative work bubbling underneath the surface.

And Nickelback and Gavin Rossdale are the unholy spawn of the devil. Don't blame Kurt for them. He's suffered enough.

I respect the fact that others may enjoy rap. I just choose not to listen to it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MetalKid,

Aren't you the person that thinks St Anger is actually a good album?

Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself, or a the very least keep them out of retarded threads that deserve only death.

quote:

Originally posted by Turenne:
Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself, or a the very least keep them out of retarded threads that deserve only death.

You must have killed too many brain cells listening to "Rap" music. The forums are a place to express opinions, positive or negative.

In fact listening to music doesn't kill brain cells. Silly of you to think otherwise. Almost as silly is to generalise a whole genre of music.

Silliest of all is upping year old threads with 4 word posts.

Just let this thread die.

quote:

Originally posted by MetalKid:
All rap sucks, period.

I've been holding this to myself, but seeing that you're willing to come in here and bash something that I love while clearly having little knowledge on the subject yourself, I'm down. I find the fact that you made that comment (after it had been made several times before in this very thread) indicative of the fact that you probably didn't read much of this thread to begin with. If you had, you would have seen several people make comments synonymous with yours. You would have also read how your categorizing an entire genre, is silly considering your lack of knowledge. I find it deplorable that you are willing to champion St. Anger and Chevelle but are willing to say 'rap sucks.'

You would find this as ironic as I do if you knew that all genres have their fair share of shitty acts but no genre should be carelessly disregarded because you haven't personally found anything you like. I'm guessing you listen to a lot of the radio and misguidedly decided that top 40 'metal' is better than top 40 'rap.' I've got news for you, the both 'suck.' If you had actually bothered to read this thread instead of making your four-word post that seems to call an entire genre useless, you would have seen this very point made on this very page. Dumbass.

My suggestion, read some of the threads and actually make a concerted effort to learn about music, instead of simply enjoying what you are told to like on the radio. Check out indie, hip-hop, electronic music, and actual metal (not that alt-metal shit you seem to love), you may learn to like it.

As for your comment regarding the forums being a place to express opinions, sure, I simply wish yours were a little more educated before you decided to tell me what I listen to sucks.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: St. Mike,

quote:

Originally posted by Turenne:
In fact listening to music doesn't kill brain cells. Silly of you to think otherwise. Almost as silly is to generalise a whole genre of music.

Silliest of all is upping year old threads with 4 word posts.

The phrase, "music killing brain cells", is called sarcasm. Get a clue.

I agree, wasting a post with a 4 word comment is a little silly. So, i corrected my previous post.

quote:

Originally posted by MetalKid:

quote:

Originally posted by Turenne:
In fact listening to music doesn't kill brain cells. Silly of you to think otherwise. Almost as silly is to generalise a whole genre of music.

Silliest of all is upping year old threads with 4 word posts.

The phrase, "music killing brain cells", is called sarcasm. Get a clue.

I agree, wasting a post with a 4 word comment is a little silly. So, i corrected my previous post.

You do realize you still haven't bothered to actually make any intelligible points, correct?

By the by, if you are actually interested in learning about hip-hop, I'd be more than willing to point you in the right direction.

quote:

Originally posted by MetalKid:

quote:

Originally posted by Turenne:
In fact listening to music doesn't kill brain cells. Silly of you to think otherwise. Almost as silly is to generalise a whole genre of music.

Silliest of all is upping year old threads with 4 word posts.

The phrase, "music killing brain cells", is called sarcasm. Get a clue.

I agree, wasting a post with a 4 word comment is a little silly. So, i corrected my previous post.

Sarcasm you say? Never heard of it.

quote:

Originally posted by MetalKid:
All rap sucks, period. I hate to generalize a whole genre of music

...

quote:

Posted by MetalKid:

The forums are a place to express opinions, positive or negative.

I love when people use the whole "I'm only expressing my opinion, positive or negative" as an excuse for flaming and generalizing about something that many people love.

Look, if you don't like Rap that's all good. But then why even come into a thread about it? If you're into metal and metal only, then stick to the metal section. That is unless you're willing to expand what you listen to and have open ears to other people's advice. That's kind of why we're all here.

quote:

Originally posted by It's Mike:
I've been holding this to myself, but seeing that you're willing to come in here and bash something that I love while clearly having little knowledge on the subject yourself, I'm down. I find the fact that you made that comment (after it had been made several times before in this very thread) indicative of the fact that you probably didn't read much of this thread to begin with. If you had, you would have seen several people make comments synonymous with yours. You would have also read how your categorizing an entire genre, is silly considering your lack of knowledge. I find it deplorable that you are willing to champion St. Anger and Chevelle but are willing to say 'rap sucks.'

You would find this as ironic as I do if you knew that all genres have their fair share of shitty acts but no genre should be carelessly disregarded because you haven't personally found anything you like. I'm guessing you listen to a lot of the radio and misguidedly decided that top 40 'metal' is better than top 40 'rap.' I've got news for you, the both 'suck.' If you had actually bothered to read this thread instead of making your four-word post that seems to call an entire genre useless, you would have seen this very point made on this very page. Dumbass.

My suggestion, read some of the threads and actually make a concerted effort to learn about music, instead of simply enjoying what you are told to like on the radio. Check out indie, hip-hop, electronic music, and actual metal (not that alt-metal shit you seem to love), you may learn to like it.

As for your comment regarding the forums being a place to express opinions, sure, I simply wish yours were a little more educated before you decided to tell me what I listen to sucks.

I actually grew up on rap music. So, i do have some knowledge on the subject. Does this give me the right to have an opinion and post on your dear thread?

The only thing i use the radio for is to listen to country music, rarely.

I admit, i did not read every post in this thread. I will be more careful next time.

My previous comment on rap has been corrected. I hope you approve.

Name calling is just childish. How old are you, man.

hahaha. I'm really at a loss for words, but this conversation seems amusing enough for me to continue with it.

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I actually grew up on rap music. So, i do have some knowledge on the subject. Does this give me the right to have an opinion and post on your dear thread?

Probably not. You still haven't really supported your opinion, you simply made it known, big difference. The fact that you continue to call it 'rap music' makes me very apprehensive. How about a little background, anything. Also, why would you grow up liking something and then consciously decide that you don't? It just supports my assumption that you aren't really listening to the best the genre has to offer.

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The only thing i use the radio for is to listen to country music, rarely.

Interesting, why would you avoid the radio for everything save 'country music?' 'Country' is the most bastardized genre on the radio.

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I admit, i did not read every post in this thread. I will be more careful next time.

Actually, my point seems to have been made on every page. How much of this thread did you read before posting in it?

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My previous comment on rap has been corrected. I hope you approve.

Actually no. You still say that the genre sucks, then you go on to say how you don't like generalizing about a genre (which you did the sentence prior to it and there still really isn't any substance to your argument at all.

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Name calling is just childish. How old are you, man.

Question marks go after questions. Actually, I agree with you, but came to my conclusion some time ago and simply decided instead to be courteous as you seem harmless. Wrong, but harmless. Then you thought this was a cool thread to say nothing in.

I'm bored...

quote:

Originally posted by It's Mike:
You still haven't really supported your opinion, you simply made it known, big difference.

You are right. I really can't support this opinion. I was very presumptuous. I apologize for the negativity and wasting your time. Again, i have corrected my initial post. I hope you approve.