quote:

Originally posted by musicfanatic:

I too like Dalek. That group got me thinking how cool it would be to fully mix ambient electronica with rap lyrics (which they sort of do). Think about some Fennesz/Tim Hecker constructed songs with a great MC spitting lyrics. It would sound pretty sweet to me.

FINALLY! Someone who has heard them.

I saw Dalek by accident - they were supporting a band I was into and they totally blew my head off. It was rap music, but the foundations were not in traditional hip hop rhythms, more in contemporary compostion. It sounded 'high art' and urban at the same time. - I've never seen anything quite like it.

quote:

Posted by Ishmaels coffin
So, I feel that you are offended by poor use of these themes rather than the use itself, or am I wrong?

you are correct, sir. the poor use of the themes and the frequency.

quote:

Posted by Ishmaels Coffin
This is perilously close to a contradiction in terms. How does a genre suck, if there is good work being done in it? Yr comment isn't entirely clear to me.

yes, it helps to be more clear in these message forums... the genre sucks mainly because of the politics behind it... but that doesnt mean artists like EL-P can't sidestep the politics and use hip-hop/ rap as a form of expression/ art-form.

ok so. Question. At what point does professing a hatred for rap and calling it "stupid" become racism? It is so tied up in african-american youth culture that I think that white 30-somethings should be very cautious when judging it. Personally, I enjoy a lot of it. Even some of the mainstream stuff appeals to me and Dr. Dre's 2001 is one of my favorite albums ever.

quote:

Originally posted by sh6ne:

yes, it helps to be more clear in these message forums... the genre sucks mainly because of the politics behind it... but that doesnt mean artists like EL-P can't sidestep the politics and use hip-hop/ rap as a form of expression/ art-form.

Ergo - rap doesn't suck.

quote:

Originally posted by thetreesgetwheeledaway:
ok so. Question. At what point does professing a hatred for rap and calling it "stupid" become racism? It is so tied up in african-american youth culture that I think that white 30-somethings should be very cautious when judging it. Personally, I enjoy a lot of it. Even some of the mainstream stuff appeals to me and Dr. Dre's 2001 is one of my favorite albums ever.

at what point does your reply become reverse racism?

quote:

Originally posted by thetreesgetwheeledaway:
ok so. Question. At what point does professing a hatred for rap and calling it "stupid" become racism? It is so tied up in african-american youth culture that I think that white 30-somethings should be very cautious when judging it.

How about us white 40-somethings?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishmaels coffin:

quote:

Posted by Sebtron
Rap/ Hip-Hop is my most hated genre of music

That's really sad. I don't understand how anyone can just broadly dismiss a genre as long lasting, broad and deep as Rap, and retain any musical taste credibility.

I'm sorry for you that you feel so much hate.

Not even Public Enemy??

Not even EL-P??

It's called liking what I like, and I don't like rap. So no, it's not that sad.

I guess "hate" was too strong of a word, I just really really really dislike rap/hip-hop. I remember when I very young and my brother would play rap throughout the house when my mom was at work, it was always torture. I just never liked rap, and I don't think I ever will.

No of course Rap doesn't suck.TBH I'm sick to death with idiots attacking and generalising a whole genre based on a handful of albums they listened to from those particurly rubbish MTV artists.Educate yourselves, and critique the genre better then the old they steal other people's music/they are all violent weak nonsense.

As for the attacks on the lyrical side of the genre, Nas,GZA,Boots Riley,Mos Def,Talib Kweli etc are some of the greatest lyricists alive across any musical genre.

quote:

Originally posted by Turenne:
No of course Rap doesn't suck.TBH I'm sick to death with idiots attacking and generalising a whole genre based on a handful of albums they listened to from those particurly rubbish MTV artists.Educate yourselves, and critique the genre better then the old they steal other people's music/they are all violent weak nonsense.

As for the attacks on the lyrical side of the genre, Nas,GZA,Boots Riley,Mos Def,Talib Kweli etc are some of the greatest lyricists alive across any musical genre.

There's nothing wrong with rap as a musical form; there is also nothing unique or revolutionary about
it. I'm sure Chaucer's work and Homer's poetry was recited with a little rhythm and step in their day.

There are individuals who bring dignity and class to the genre but the gold-teeth side of this industry
can't afford to give them equal regard.

quote:

As for the attacks on the lyrical side of the genre, Nas,GZA,Boots Riley,Mos Def,Talib Kweli etc are some of the greatest lyricists alive across any musical genre.

Even if i agreed, it would stil be a sad assessment.

quote:

There's nothing wrong with rap as a musical form; there is also nothing unique or revolutionary about
it.

You, apparently, were not issued Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back, like everybody else.

And with regards to your "Sad" comment I offer these words:

We sell, crack to our own out the back of our homes
We smell the musk at the dusk in the crack of the dawn
We go through "Epidodes II," like "Attack of the Clones"
Work 'til we break our back and you hear the crack of the bone
To get by.. just to get by
Just to get by, just to get by
We commute to computers
Spirits stay mute while you eagles spread rumors
We survivalists, turned to consumers
To get by.. just to get by
Just to get by, just to get by
Ask Him why some people got to live in a trailer, cuss like a sailor
I paint a picture with the pen like Norman Mailer
Me and Willa raised three daughters all by herself, with no help
I think about a struggle and I find the strength in myself
These words, melt in my mouth
They hot, like the jail cell in the South
Before my nigga Core bailed me out
To get by.. just to get by
Just to get by, just to get by
We do or die like Bed-Stuy through the red sky
with the window of the red eye
Let the lead fly, some G. Rap shit, "Livin' to Let Die"

This message has been edited. Last edited by: St. Mike,

I've been lurking this one for a while, and thought I'd add my thoughts.
I agree that genre generalizations are pointless and stupid. A majority of rap sucks. Sure. A majority of rock sucks. A majority of country music sucks. The key is finding the gems in all genres that don't suck.

I've like rap artists along the way. I thought PE was revolutionary. I admired the Roots for their musicality as well as their flow. I really dug Dre and Snoop on the Chronic.

My complaint is that rap, like many popular music genres, has become so conservative. It seems that much of it has been done, and what started as musical iconoclasm has become preservation. Where are the rap innovators today?

Note, I'm not saying that there aren't any. I'm assuming that they're toiling underground. My hope is that they find the light of day and turn rap and hip-hop on their respective heads.

quote:

As for the attacks on the lyrical side of the genre, Nas,GZA,Boots Riley,Mos Def,Talib Kweli etc are some of the greatest lyricists alive across any musical genre.

quote:

Even if i agreed, it would stil be a sad assessment

Why is it a sad assesement exactly?Whats wrong with Rap having great lyricists or the above being great lyricists?

quote:

Originally posted by IG Farben:
Have a Take, Don't Suck.

Nice Jim Rome nod. (That is unless it is in fact a Jim Rome ripoff. In that case, not nice.)

Definitely a nod to Rome.

I listen to him everyday.
War: Make a world a better place, punch a Yankee fan in the face.

quote:

Originally posted by IG Farben:
Definitely a nod to Rome.

I listen to him everyday.
War: Make a world a better place, punch a Yankee fan in the face.

In that case, nice. Also, although Jimmy doesn't like the "Punch a _____ in the face" bit, I do and the Yankees and their fans had it coming. For not liking it though, he sure reads the hell out of the emails. Seeing how this has nothing to do with Rap or sucking, P-Bo will now fade back into oblivion.

The first Dizee Rascal single from his new album is titled "Pussyhole." Even the hip, underground rappers are pathetic.

yep rap is so shit lol, its for talentless people who cant play instruments and cant sing so they have to talk aload of random crap and somehow get famous, disgraceful

I've decided to post a few counter examples to each of Max-Core's points. I could name more, but that would get long and boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Max-Core:
yep rap is so shit lol, its for talentless people

This really annoys me, it's just not a talent you appriciate. I guess we're all capable of generalising statements some of the time.

quote:

who cant play instruments

Ever heard of Andre 3000, The Roots, The Beastie Boys or Plan B?

quote:

and cant sing

For people who rap and sing I'd like you to try The Pharcyde and J5, they're a good starting point. They can even rap in harmony. Q-Tip is quite melodic too, especially on 'Excusions'.

quote:

so they have to talk aload of random crap

To find meaningful lyrics that aren't random crap listen to Braintax or De La Soul or NWA or Public Enemy or... you get the idea.

quote:

and somehow get famous, disgraceful

OK, some of them I don't understand how it happened. But isn't it true of every genre that some artists are bad and some are good? Some rappers just don't have good beats under their vocals. There's a lot of lazy rap, but the more I look the more great rap I find.

I have trouble following the lyrics and I am not up on the rap jargon. I am to tired to explore those t hings so I stick with what I know and like. I would like to read a good book on the genre to get something about it into my brain so I can appreciate it. Lots of rap sounds like crap to me, but again, maybe I just don't have the jargon down.

quote:

Originally posted by rockthief:
I have trouble following the lyrics and I am not up on the rap jargon. I am to tired to explore those t hings so I stick with what I know and like. I would like to read a good book on the genre to get something about it into my brain so I can appreciate it. Lots of rap sounds like crap to me, but again, maybe I just don't have the jargon down.

Do youreally understand all or most of the words to most rock songs you hear?

I, for one, do not. and I don't think it matters too much. I think the first step is getting into the beat. Once you enjoy that, the rest is mainly empathy. I still think the big braggadoccio thing so many rappers have going on is goofy, but hey, it's all part of the show. It's not real. It's about building up this alter ego and making him like your personal deity. Ok, so I'm a blasphemer.

One of the reasons I don't think it matters too much is that the 'rules' of jargon aren't really there. New words and things are being created all the time. That's what is so cool about it - it's creative work directly with language. Cos if you spit about things just like others have done in the past, generally you'll never be a successful MC.