quote:

Originally posted by Jglass:
Oh well. Call me apathetic, but the women in that society appear to embrace it rather than rebel against it.

According to the documentary I saw, they don't even realise that they're the subject of these horrible insults, They don't get it, they just say "He's not talking about Me" and listen to the music.

Reminds me of Chris Rock talking about hip hop, saying that in clubs all the women are dancing to it, even though the lyrics are "Smack her with your dick, smack her with your dick, F*** her in the eye, F*** her in the eye, Blind the Bitch, Blind the Bitch!"

"If you mention to a woman that the song is disgusting and mysoginistic, they all give you the same answer: 'He ain't talkin' 'bout me!"

Aren't we generalising here a bit?

If I stereotyped all the Radiohead fans on this forum as whingers, there'd be uproar. Similarly, I could say all metallers are into satanism and all country fans are rednecks.

Needless to say, I don't hold these beliefs but why are generalisations about rap music allowed?

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:
Aren't we generalising here a bit?

If I stereotyped all the Radiohead fans on this forum as whingers, there'd be uproar. Similarly, I could say all metallers are into satanism and all country fans are rednecks.

Needless to say, I don't hold these beliefs but why are generalisations about rap music allowed?

We're talking about the artists, rather than the fans, and though I see your point I actually do think that a lot of rap artists promote horrible things.

We must defend the indefensible, in terms of freedom of speech, lest we become fascists, but bad musick should be hit with an axe handle and buried..mwahaha

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kulturtrager,

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:
Aren't we generalising here a bit?

If I stereotyped all the Radiohead fans on this forum as whingers, there'd be uproar. Similarly, I could say all metallers are into satanism and all country fans are rednecks.

Needless to say, I don't hold these beliefs but why are generalisations about rap music allowed?

That's not true? Shit...

Anyways, what in the hell is a whinger?

Rap/Hip-Hop is my most hated genre of music, I cant describe how much I dislike it. The only artist I like that does rap is M.I.A..

quote:

Posted by Sebtron
Rap/ Hip-Hop is my most hated genre of music

That's really sad. I don't understand how anyone can just broadly dismiss a genre as long lasting, broad and deep as Rap, and retain any musical taste credibility.

I'm sorry for you that you feel so much hate.

Not even Public Enemy??

Not even EL-P??

Or Wu-tang?

Why do you like MIA so much, but not anything else of that nature (I would not consider MIA rap.. I don't know why, I just don't feel like it fits, although I can see where he's coming from)

Sebtron, maybe you're just hearing, like, bad hip-hop.... like Puffy!! Har har!

I think every genre has just as much contemptible stuff as hip-hop/rap... I don't think it's fair (or very nice )to dismiss the whole genre.

Go listen to:

Sage Francis
Immortal Technique
Deltron 3030

And tell me rap music sucks.

quote:

Originally posted by Stray Fox:
Go listen to:

Sage Francis
Immortal Technique
Deltron 3030

And tell me rap music sucks.

Deltron 3030 just may be...my favorite hip hop album, ever. It was the first one I really bought (because of Gorillaz - it took me forever to sort out Deltron 3030, Deltron 0, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, etc. gah) It's beautiful in a way I've never heard hip hop be beautiful before or after. Immortal Technique, eh. I've only heard small doses, I assume that's how I like him. Sage Francis I've never really heard.


And to ensure this post isn't totally off-topic, I'll re-iterate; no, rap doesn't suck

I just saw Sage Francis live in concert on Saturday as part of the Paid Dues festival.

I gotta be honest, he wasn't one of my favorites... He looks like he just got out of jail.

But I will definitely second you on your Deltron 3030 mention!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Nhazghaal:
Del Tha Funkee Homosapien is the shit

i think it makes a lot of sense that so many are voicing disgust with rap. i mean, look at it this way: these music fans have essentially had this genre dropped in their lap, and it's different than what they usually listen to. but instead of getting some of the more innovative stuff, they've been handed "crunk" etc bullshit commerce rap. so of course they hate it! because what's not to hate about that? rare stars shine through the fog of rap (possibly a cloud of smoke?...thanks snoop!) so as a whole the genre seems like garbage. and then these newcomers aren't going to dig into rap if it all looks like garbage from the outside.

which is why it's good that we've had some recommendations from the most talented yet sadly less popular contingent of rap.

that said, even with some of the more innovative rap i've heard, the backing tracks are usually just too unimpressive, and i find this to be my biggest barrier with most rap, more so than the lyrics. there are a ton of instrumental "rock" bands (and even sub-genres that are basically instrumental), but i've found there are far fewer instumental hip-hop acts...which i think illustrates the problems of the music behind the raps. there are definitely some interesting producers out there though, far too many for me, or any lover of music in whatever form it may take, to just ignore the genre altogether.

so to answer the question from the top - rap, like most styles of music, largely does suck. but be sure to look out for the artists and albums that deserve to be under the "or what" side of things, because they might just blow your mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Jglass:

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:
Aren't we generalising here a bit?

If I stereotyped all the Radiohead fans on this forum as whingers, there'd be uproar. Similarly, I could say all metallers are into satanism and all country fans are rednecks.

Needless to say, I don't hold these beliefs but why are generalisations about rap music allowed?

That's not true? Shit...

Anyways, what in the hell is a whinger?

In the UK Radiohead are often dismissed by the public as being a self obsessed bunch of manic depressives who don't know how to have fun and moan about political injustice (sometimes with good reason). They whinge about things, hence I used the term whingers. They've also been called boring and 'up their own arse'.

I should add this is a stereotype and not my personal opinion, although certain works post 'OK Computer' have been a bit close for comfort.

Anyway - I'm going off topic. this thread is supposed to be about rap (Much as I'd like to see Thom Yorke getting 'jiggy with it' in a novelty collaboration with Vanilla Ice).

quote:

Originally posted by Stray Fox:
Go listen to:

Sage Francis
Immortal Technique
Deltron 3030

And tell me rap music sucks.

I doubt if people who don't like rap for its negativity are going to like Immortal Technique, but Deltron 3030 is ridiculous. The skits on that album don't even bother me.

More stuff to listen to for rap haters (sorry if a lot of this has already been posted):

Illmatic - Nas
Breaking Kayfabe - Cadence Weapon
Check Your Head, Paul's Boutique - Beastie Boys
A Grand Don't Come For Free - The Streets
Madvillainy - Madvillain

If we are going to make a list of "hip hop for haters," mine would go like this:

Dr. Octagonecologyst Dr. Octagon
Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) Wu-Tang Clan
Black Star Black Star
People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm and Low End Theory A Tribe Called Quest
Man Overboard Buck 65
Movies for the Blind and Hell's Winter Cage
Blazing Arrow Blackalicious
The Score The Fugees
All Eyez on Me Tupac

taken as a whole, rap is the worst genre of music hands down - from the creative process to the finished product.

90% of rap "hits" have stolen a large part (melody/ beat/ etc.)from other songs that have already been hits.

and then there's the typical rap album formula: hardcore/ street cred. song, club banger, and ballad. Add 70% filler (forgettable songs/ skits) and cameos by the posse - so each can release a solo album of equally crappy songs.

one guy (or a team) makes the beat... and then a rapper pays for it to put on his album. if the song sounds "hot", it will cost more money. so the rapper scribbles some gibberish down on paper, puts it to the beat, and then adds a seemingly catchy yet retarded chorus e.g., "it's getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes."

most of the time there's no connection between the lyrics, chorus, and beat of the song - it just is...

and let's not forget the constant objectification of women and glorification of murder, violence, and drugs.

however, all is not garbage and although I hate rap to a great extent, I place the following albums among my favorites.

Aesop Rock - Labor Days
Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein
Del - Both Sides of the Brain
Del - Deltron 3030
EL-P - Fantastic Damage
EL-P - I'll Sleep When You're Dead
MF Doom - The Mouse and the Mask
Mr. Lif - Emergency Rations
Mr. Lif - Mo Mega
Rob Sonic - Telicatessen
Sage Francis - Personal Journals

Nice mentions with Aesop, Cannibal Ox, Mf Doom, and Sage, Sh6ne.

Question:

Everybody who takes issue with the lyrics, do you not enjoy music with bad lyrics?