Can we just clear something up here? Hip-Hop is the instrumental part, and rap is the poetry that goes on top of it. That's why you'll hear people rapping over songs in other genres and not hip-hopping. Because that would just be silly. OK? Can we just leave it at that?

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
Oh come on, it's not that big of a deal. Hip-hop is just the better term for it, I always use "hip-hop/rap" but that's just me. You yourself said you don't even know the genre that well at all so what we are saying isn't so incredible. I have studied the genre and think of myself to know a lot about it so that's why I said what I said.

Yeah, I know, it's something I've seen happen before with usage of the word "rap" around serious music listeners. I just didn't think before I posted it. It's all the same to me, so I'll just use hip-hop from now on - if I sounded bitter or something with that I didn't mean to be.

quote:

Originally posted by La La Love Pixies:
Odyssey, don't bother with this unless you really enjoy it. Basically, you are talking to a wall. Or should I refer to it as acoustiking?

I actually do kind of enjoy it. He may be just needling me but I do seem to like the sound of myself typing out these things.

Seriously, I'd love for someone to really tell me what's wrong with what I said. I never claim perfection.

quote:

Originally posted by The Twinkie That Wouldn't Die:
rap is the poetry that goes on top of it

I like how you refer to it as 'poetry,' cute.

Here is the difference I see, o&o. Hip-hop is a cultural movement, as well as a genre of music. There are plenty of artists, DJs and instrumentalists that make pure hip-hop music. And hip-hop covers a lot of many different elements and facets. A good example is the new album by Clutchy Hopkins, that's straight hip-hop.

Some albums I refer to as "hip-hop/rap" because they have both. But rap is the lyrical wordplay (most of the time in rhythm) that MCs do. This is part of hip-hop and happens a lot in that genre.

Does that make sense?

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
Here is the difference I see, o&o. Hip-hop is a cultural movement, as well as a genre of music. There are plenty of artists, DJs and instrumentalists that make pure hip-hop music. And hip-hop covers a lot of many different elements and facets. A good example is the new album by Clutchy Hopkins, that's straight hip-hop.

Some albums I refer to as "hip-hop/rap" because they have both. But rap is the lyrical wordplay (most of the time in rhythm) that MCs do. This is part of hip-hop and happens a lot in that genre.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense, seems like a worthwhile distinction. I think that whenever I've heard instrumental hip-hop (and I have - I didn't mean that I was completely unknowledgeable) I've tended to classify it as trip-hop or turntablism or some random form of electronica, and not "hip-hop" per se. But I do think that there's no harm in calling the popular conception of hip-hop - a charismatic MC with mostly static rhythms and hooks, let's say - "rap music." I feel like it's easier to compare someone like DJ Shadow (instrumental hip-hop, as per Dork) to electronica than to someone like Jay-Z.

M.I.A.
Why?
Doseone

Those are artists in the genre of hip-hop that you could never call "rap," ever. If you can't understand why (no pun intended) then you should probably stop reading here.

Thes One
MF Doom (the instrumentals)
DJ Cam
DJ Shadow

These guys are making instrumental hip-hop, there is no rapping.

If you talk to any 'regular' unlearned person about music and ask what they listen to, you may hear 'rap music' then get a list of artists something like this; 50 cent, Yung Joc, Soulja Boy, Gucci Man, Mike Jones, Mims, T.I, Rich Boy. Hence, 'Rap' generally has bad connotations for those who actually know about music because the artists most people consider 'rap' to be garbage.

Years ago, we had acts like A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, Whodini, The Wu-Tang Clan, who, although there was rapping, were generally called hip-hop.

For me, 'Rap' can be two things, the verses someone speaks or a hip-hop lite marketed to the masses that includes incredibly simple beats and retarded rap rhymes. Hip-Hop is more cerebral and intelligent, the 'raps' are intelligent or at least more impressive, the beats are generally more complex.

It's confusing because "Hip-Hop" as a supergenre encompasses "Rap."

I think the main hip-hop v. rap thing is caused by people like us, who seek out good music constantly, trying to differentiate ourselves from the fucktards thinking "This is why I'm Hot" was a good song.

Bleh. I'm not sure how much of this makes sense, I may come back and add more to this discussion later.

"This IS Why I'm Hot" is a fuckin banger (too bad MIMS just blows) and T.I. is bomb as shit. Sorry dudes, but T.I. is legit.

I think my main problem when it comes to hip-hop and rap is that (as I've said numerous times) I love the hood shit. There really is so little good gangsta rap being made nowadays... most of it being made just seems so flaky.

I mean, why else would Wu-Tang, B.I.G., and NAS be in my top 5 favorite rap artists/groups? They were all straight hood, real as fuck, and really intelligent (/funny). Classic.

I've also never used the term "hip-hop" in real life. Ever. I always refer to anything with rapping as rap... or else I use the term electronic (which is also a term I dislike yet is more fitting and less lame than the term "hip-hop" for DJ Shadow and other artists).

quote:

Originally posted by JGlass:

I think my main problem when it comes to hip-hop and rap is that (as I've said numerous times) I love the hood shit.

We've agreed on this before. But "This is why I'm Hot" and T.I. are still garbage. I may pull out my copy of Port of Miami later on today, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Jglass:
I've also never used the term "hip-hop" in real life. Ever. I always refer to anything with rapping as rap... or else I use the term electronic (which is also a term I dislike yet is more fitting and less lame than the term "hip-hop" for DJ Shadow and other artists).

Agree to disagree. Douche.

quote:

If you talk to any 'regular' unlearned person about music and ask what they listen to, you may hear 'rap music' then get a list of artists something like this; 50 cent, Yung Joc, Soulja Boy, Gucci Man, Mike Jones, Mims, T.I, Rich Boy. Hence, 'Rap' generally has bad connotations for those who actually know about music because the artists most people consider 'rap' to be garbage.

Years ago, we had acts like A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, Whodini, The Wu-Tang Clan, who, although there was rapping, were generally called hip-hop.

i noticed that the rap artists you mentionned are solo artists, and the hip-hop astists are collectives. Is it just a coincidence?

quote:

Originally posted by eggtweedyegg:

i noticed that the rap artists you mentionned are solo artists, and the hip-hop astists are collectives. Is it just a coincidence?

Mostly. I would say that in a hip-hop group there is more quality control and some of the horrible lyrics that the aforementioned garbage 'rappers' spew would probably have been immediately tossed had they been part of a collective. I'd also say that my main problem is with mainstream hip-hop of today, and it seems that solo artists are the current trend as opposed to the wonderful groups of yesteryear. This isn't to say there aren't any good hip-hop collectives around, they are just few and far between.

I'll jump straight into this and piss hundreds of people off with the following (true) statement: Laibach's version of the album Let It Be is twice as good and three times as interesting as the original record by The Beatles.

I can't believe I've never heard of the band or that album.... I'm definitely checking this out.

I have one album from them Laibach. It's basically old school industrial/electronic. What their version of Let It Be like? (BTW, that is definitely sacrilege.)

Well, you will be shocked the first time you hear it, as it sounds nothing like the original. The album is a comment on totalitarian regimes, and the totalitarian music industry. It will be interesting to hear what you think of it. It's actually one of the albums by Laibach that I like the least. Kapital is better (and totally different), and NATO is their best record.

quote:

Originally posted by ezatldude:
What their version of Let It Be like?

Do you mean the song? It's not included on the album. I've read several books and commentaries on the group (I wrote my bachelor thesis about the band) but I can't remember the reason why they exlcuded the song.

I really enjoy older industrial stuff so I imagine it won't be too much of a shock.. although I have no idea on their sound so you never know. Is it Neubauten style or...?

They may have left "Let It Be" off becuase it's too uplifting? I don't know.. just throwing ideas out.

I'd say it's more stadium rock but in an old school industrial way. Whatever that means.
If you enjoy older industrial stuff, then their albums Opus Dei and Slovenska Akropola might be better starting points.

By the way, thanks for reminding me about Einstürzende Neubauten. I really like them, but haven't listened to them in a long time.

This comment isn't really sacrilege, as I think most users of this forum would agree, but the '00 decade has produced very few memorable artists.

A few that I can think of off the top of my head: The Mars Volta (although their last couple albums...), Interpol, the White Stripes, the Arcade Fire... who am I missing here?

Also, this decade has failed to produce an artist who is larger than life i.e. Kurt Cobain in the '90's, MJ, Prince, Madonna in the '80's, Bowie in the '70's, etc. This makes me sad.

Mostly, though, I just wanted to resurrect this thread...

quote:

A few that I can think of off the top of my head: The Mars Volta (although their last couple albums...), Interpol, the White Stripes, the Arcade Fire... who am I missing here?

Only four artists out of a whole decade are memorable? I'll throw add a few more to your three (I say three because I would definitely not include The Mars Volta.)

TV on the Radio
Wilco (reputation mostly established this decade)
Spoon (again, mostly this decade)
Animal Collective
Sufjan Stevens
Sigur Ros
My Morning Jacket

I think all of these artists are going to end with very strong reputations. This is excluding my own personal favorites like Liars, The Hold Steady, The Thermals, etc. So that makes ten artists/bands that are very well liked, popular and acclaimed: and that's only really one or two styles of music.

quote:

Also, this decade has failed to produce an artist who is larger than life i.e. Kurt Cobain in the '90's, MJ, Prince, Madonna in the '80's, Bowie in the '70's, etc. This makes me sad.

I don't think I'd put Cobain or Prince in that catagory. That is true though: there doesn't seem to be that figure this decade.

If we're talking huge figures, larger-than-life, we'd probably have to look to the popstars. Britney, JT, or someone along those lines will be an artist remembered more for their personality than their music.

quote:

Originally posted by ProfAmaretto:
This comment isn't really sacrilege, as I think most users of this forum would agree, but the '00 decade has produced very few memorable artists.

A few that I can think of off the top of my head: The Mars Volta (although their last couple albums...), Interpol, the White Stripes, the Arcade Fire... who am I missing here?

Also, this decade has failed to produce an artist who is larger than life i.e. Kurt Cobain in the '90's, MJ, Prince, Madonna in the '80's, Bowie in the '70's, etc. This makes me sad.

Mostly, though, I just wanted to resurrect this thread...

I will say I think that this decade will be remembered a lot like the 1980s. Great underground scene and a lot of forgettable pop music. Like the 1980s that had bands like REM and the beginnings of grunge, the underground (or college rock scene as it was known then) was really great. The 1990s were a decade of confusion. The early to mid 1990s were some of the best for music because there was a great proliferation of new artists and styles (everything from Nirvana to Third Eye Blind). The 2000s have pop-rap which to a certain extent reminds me of the theatrics of hair metal. So hopefully over the next four years or so the underground scene will bleed into popular music in some meaningful form and finally there will be good music on pop radio again.