First off, the "leagues" discussion sounds like soccer talk, which will puzzle most Americans (most of us here).
But I get your point.
I wonder why someone like Britney Spears or Kelly Clarkson is not "cool" while someone like Annie, who is doing roughly the same thing, is. And I'm not defending one or another...I think "Toxic" and "Chewing Gum" are both two great singles. I'm just not sure why one is cool and the other is not.
This is not meant as a new dig at Pitchfork, although they are the primary champions (amongst the indie press) for Annie. They did give a high ranking of "Toxic" for singles 2000-2004, however.
Right, then let's replace "leagues" for "levels", if you like. I thought Americans would understand that straight away as you have baseball and basket leagues, haven't you??
To Bobthespirit:
We are talking popularity.
To Biggles:
Don't you dare hmmmmming me, cause I know you Aussies have produced rather interesting music (Go-Betweens, Saints, Nick Cave,...)
Don't you dare hmmmmming me, cause I know you Aussies have produced rather interesting music (Go-Betweens, Saints, Nick Cave,...)
Uh, that was really just sort of a "please explain" post.
(I'll admit that two letters and a question mark do not constitute a proper post.)
Considering how levels of popularity greatly vary, and often fluctuate over a band/artist's career, it doesn't make sense to throw it all into four categories, basically: "very popular", "sort of popular", "not very popular" and "not popular". I could question some of those examples, too.
I don't think Emanuel is trying to do anything but get to know us. It's just that Europeans are so much more Continental than we are...you heathen Buckie! Hey, get in the chatroom next time, will ya?
"Naked Woman, Naked Man Where did you get that nice sun tan?"
Sorry I'm acting such the asshole, it's just that as soon as I let my guard down, we'll get another spammer linking to his shitty review site or to mp3s of his friend's band or something. Every new user should lurk for a while before posting, and then make his first posts in those really safe and basic threads, like "Best Albums Of 04" and "What Are You Listening To".
Did you see my responses to Exorcist II in horror or the film festival in foreign films? Did I do wrong to let those stand? This doesn't matter. You are practically a mod right now. I can't make you one, but trust me, we know what's goin' on, and what's goin' on is different for every single poster! Get to the chatroom, dude!
"Naked Woman, Naked Man Where did you get that nice sun tan?"
Originally posted by Buck "Sweetie" McGuck: Sorry I'm acting such the asshole, it's just that as soon as I let my guard down, we'll get another spammer linking to his shitty review site or to mp3s of his friend's band or something. Every new user should lurk for a while before posting, and then make his first posts in those really safe and basic threads, like "Best Albums Of 04" and "What Are You Listening To".
Since when was it decided that posting in a public forum on the internet was to be so rigidly outlined with unwritten rules for conduct by "newbies"? Don't be so pompous. Posting on Metacritic is not some rite of passage to transcend and be carried like a badge of honor. Everyone should be able to make whatever ridiculous statements they wish, assuming there's a mutual respect for one another — a respect you were quick to dash.
I think it's more 'gradients' than leagues, and I think the fact that there are totally different demographics with totally different tastes in music invalidates the concept of 'leagues'.
The demographic that likes N Sync and Britney Spears may be larger in terms of numbers than the demographic that likes Beck and Radiohead, which in turn is larger than the one that likes Garth Brooks and Tim McGraw....
But the demographic that likes Beck and Radiohead finds stuff like Britney Spears, which is marketted primarily based on things other than the actual music (Which she neither writes nor actually sings), utter dreck.
So you can say there are leagues within genres, but you can't really say there are leagues, period.
Beck and Radiohead have a larger demographic than Garth Brooks and Tim McGraw? Doesn't seem like it to me, but maybe that is because I live in the southwest.
Hmm...well, I'm in the northeast, so maybe I'm marginalizing the popularity of country. Worldwide, I would definetely say Beck and Radiohead have a larger demographic, as is the case with my age range (Low 20s).
But either way...people who like Garth Brooks and Tim McGraw find stuff like Beck and Radiohead noisy and unlistenable. Which is why if you even want to talk about leagues you have to specify genre.
I think that pE is right. "Leagues" might be prove a puzzling way to describe to a largely American audience if we're using the term as it applies to European soccer.
To offer a different sports analogy, for every baseball player destined for the Hall of Fame, there are literally dozens of Major Leaguers who have a solid but unspectacular career, not to mention the hundereds who labor away their entire career in the relative obscurity of the minor leagues.
So, too, for every band that dominates the Indie audience, there are dozens of critical and fan favorite who never quite catch on with the audience as a whole, not to mention hundreds and hundreds of regional bands that are unknown by all but a select few listeners.
It probably is an apples to oranges comparison to set Brittney next to Aaron Tippin next to The Sun Sawed in 1/2, but otherwise I buy the overall assertion that there are "leagues" not only in popular music, but in pretty much all genres. Take jazz, for example. John Coltrane is almost certainly a familar name to many of the members of these forums, even if you are not a fan of the genre. How many, though, have heard or heard of Tina Brooks, or Big Joe Burrell?
This is not to say that the work of a more obscure band or artist isn't great. With rare exceptions, the real giants of any genre, I think a lot of names make it to the top of the heap through circumstances simply lining up in their favor. I studied, for instance, with a saxophonist in St. Louis who I think was every bit as good as any of a dozen I can name who are well-known in the jazz world, but whatever reason, he never quite made it outside of St. Louis.
On the whole, though, I'm in agreement that it's a hard comparison to draw across genres.
Now Playing: "Hello" Tea for Julie streaming on KEXP <-- case in point...who's heard of them, but they're certainly just as good as pretty much everything else on KEXP, which I mean as a compliment.
Originally posted by m.leland: Since when was it decided that posting in a public forum on the internet was to be so rigidly outlined with unwritten rules for conduct by "newbies"? Don't be so pompous. Posting on Metacritic is not some rite of passage to transcend and be carried like a badge of honor. Everyone should be able to make whatever ridiculous statements they wish, assuming there's a mutual respect for one another — a respect you were quick to dash.
I'll step in to defend Sweetie here (not that he needs my help) because he was merely responding to an annoying recent trend of our being hit by obnoxious spammers and street teamers. Sweetie is part of the self-policing of these Forums that keeps the spammers out of our happy little world. BY THE WAY...if any of you ever suspect (or know) a post is spam, use the notification tab in the bottom right corner of the post to let a moderator know, and we'll shut it down ASAP rather than try to engage the spammer in fruitless discussions.
The fact that Sweetie immediately backed off and apologized was, to his credit, an admission that he jumped the gun on Emanuel Matos whose post was interesting and on point, but also slightly off-putting. I, too, saw it as a chance to namedrop, which one can do almost anywhere on these board, but I give Emanuel some leeway because he's new.
I have noticed a trend here...slamming newbies who make wildly fannish claims (see the post on Kanye West). Everyone should keep in mind that some of our posters aren't native English speakers, and others are pretty young and are just trying to state their opinions to the world, and treat them as such.
Originally posted by philosopherEric: Sweetie is part of the self-policing of these Forums that keeps the spammers out of our happy little world. BY THE WAY...if any of you ever suspect (or know) a post is spam, use the notification tab in the bottom right corner of the post to let a moderator know, and we'll shut it down ASAP rather than try to engage the spammer in fruitless discussions.
I don't see how jumping down someone's throat will stop spam. Unless, of course, they're like ants, and you have to kill the scout before he gets back to the nest. Or bees. I hate bees.
Now namedropping: M. Ward, "Sweethearts on Parade" from Transistor Radio. So far much better than I anticipated.
True enough. The spammers don't usually ever respond, so it's not like calling them out really helps. But there's still a sense in which it's some sort of personal victory, to call out a spammer for what they are...an Internet annoyance.
