Well, the question sums it up: if you hear a slow, fragile-sounding song come up on a record, do you groan? Do you sigh, and say, "Please let this be over soon" or do you appreciate the music for its perceived sensitivity?


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Personally, I dislike ballads in general because they usually contain mostly filler. They aren't catchy, and often come across as dishonest or commercial product rather than the real deal. Many albums (take Jet's "Get Born" as an example) are plagued by ballad after ballad after ballad, while the singles are completely deceptive. Yet another problem is that they take themselves so dreadfully seriously...

Any other thoughts?

Question:
Do you generally enjoy the slower, softer songs on a record, or do you tend to dislike them?

Choices:
I enjoy them
I have no opinion/I tend to enjoy both equally
I despise them

 

Dork, I don't have anything against ballads per se, but a mediocre ballad can certainly ruin the flow of an otherwise good album (I'm thinking of MC5's Back in the USA or the ballads on Screaming Trees' Dust). I suspect that it's harder to write a good slow song than an mediocre rocker.

quote:

Personally, I dislike ballads in general because they usually contain mostly filler. They... often come across as dishonest or commercial product rather than the real deal.

Your above assertions seem like broad generalisations to me that could equally be applied to rockers. Maybe your general dislike of ballads is colouring your perspective? Can you give a few specific examples?

Yes, more specifically, Something and Because off of Abbey Road. I suppose this could be traced to my long standing dislike of Harrison's Eastern sounding trippy songs, but I also think that it disrupts the tone of the cd. I think that a cd should have a specific direction, and ballads are usually more of a way to appear two dimensional, lowering themselves IMO. Of course, there are always going to be excellent ballads, such as The Ballad of El Goodo or Thireen off of Big Star's #1 Record. These songs flow well with the rest and don't change the mood of the cd; they also segue into the next songs nicely, creating a harder/softer dynamic, which is another advantage of having ballads.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler:
Yes, more specifically, Something and Because off of Abbey Road. I suppose this could be traced to my long standing dislike of Harrison's Eastern sounding trippy songs, but I also think that it disrupts the tone of the cd. I think that a cd should have a specific direction, and ballads are usually more of a way to appear two dimensional, lowering themselves IMO. Of course, there are always going to be excellent ballads, such as The Ballad of El Goodo or Thireen off of Big Star's #1 Record. These songs flow well with the rest and don't change the mood of the cd; they also segue into the next songs nicely, creating a harder/softer dynamic, which is another advantage of having ballads.

Good points, Tyler, and I second your views on the 4 ballads mentioned.

I'm OK with you guys agreeing and all, but I'm one of those freaks who never found a Beatles song weak or disruptive to the flow. Specifically, "Something" has some of George's most heartfelt singing and a great guitar solo, along with some major banging in the middle by Ringo. "Because" not only repeats the melody of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)", but then adds perhaps John's greatest vocal harmonies (with himself).

Now returning to your regularly-scheduled program.

Okay, you like Something and Because, but if you were to throw Taxman and While My Guitar Gently Weeps into the mix, which one would come out on top?

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
Specifically, "Something" has some of George's most heartfelt singing and a great guitar solo, along with some major banging in the middle by Ringo.
Now returning to your regularly-scheduled program.

Something's one of those songs I've trained myself to like because otherwise there goes half of the first side of Abbey Road (see my post on compilations).

However, no pun intended, there's something about Something that jars with me. Maybe it's because it appears straight after Come Together, one of my favourite Beatles' songs.

As for Tyler's post, Taxman is a better song but I like Clapton's guitar playing on Guitar. Let's call it a draw

"Something" is a great tune. Between that and "Here Comes the Sun", I think Abbey Road featured some of Harrison's best work. If you're gonna pick some disruptive songs on Abbey Road, start with "Octopus' Garden".

I like a ballad if it has a bit of bite to it, maybe if teh artist is gonna chuck something intersting in there. Basically like most of radioheads ballads, how to disapear completely, pyramid song (are these ballads?) they have those scary organ noises wailing in the background.

Also I want to get something at the end, add something... like a lot of sufjans songs I'm like oh yeah muted trumpets, cool.

Even more if it is building up to something, I don't mind how soft it is as long as it serves for a purpose (exit music (for a film)).

But deffinately if its not at all original and goes no where its annoying.

This is a great topic. Personally I do enjoy when a ballad begins on an album for many reasons. For one, a competent, strong ballad shows off a band’s/artist’s musicianship. There are plenty of bands that sound alike but one thing that can set them apart is a ballad. Here are some examples. On last years Z, there are two ballads, “Into the Woods”—which can literally be called a ballad since it is in triple meter—and “Dondante” and both are absolutely gorgeous. These two tracks add to the overall effect an album has on a listener and personally these two tracks are what helped me label this album as the best album of 2005—for me. You can go in the opposite way too with bad bands that also write bad ballads or just don’t write ballads at all like Jet whose best-known ballad “Look What You’ve Done” is a boring, simple song that is built on what sounds like two or three chords.

Many great ballads that help make an album sound just “that” much better are “Fake Plastic Trees” and “Street Spirit (Fade Out)” off of The Bends, “Flint (For the Unemployed and Underpaid)” off of Greetings from Michigan: The Great Lakes State, and “Danko/Manuel” and “Goddamn Lonely Love” off of The Dirty South just to name a few. This isn’t to say that many high-quality bands who put out amazing music and who don’t write ballads on their albums aren’t musical. But having a great ballad really shows off an artist’s/band’s musicianship, overall talent and in many ways just how excellent they really are. If you really want to hear two amazing ballads on arguably one of the best albums of all time from arguably the best band ever, listen to “Sweet Virginia” and Shine a Light” off of Exile on Main St..

How do you define a ballad anyway? Is it just a slower song? In that case, it just depends, like any kind of song, on the quality of the artist and where their strengths are. My favorite Pavement song is a ballad. That would be "Here." Others that come to mind are "Pale Blue Eyes" by VU, "One" by U2, "The Big Country" by Talking Heads, and "John Wayne Gacy Jr." by Sufjan. There are thousands more I'm sure.

quote:

Originally posted by SDF:
How do you define a ballad anyway? Is it just a slower song? In that case, it just depends, like any kind of song, on the quality of the artist and where their strengths are. My favorite Pavement song is a ballad. That would be "Here." Others that come to mind are "Pale Blue Eyes" by VU...

and on that same album, 'Jesus' and 'Candy Says', both really beautiful songs.

I dont think there's a necessity to distinguish ballads from 'other' songs. If it's done well, it's done well.

I assume ballad to mean "slow, love song". Not just a slow, mid-tempo song.

That's why I think how to dissappear completely doesn't count, where Something does count. I do love Something though. It is sincere. "You're asking me will my love grow, I don't know...".

I don't love the love ballads, unless they are totally sincere (which they rarely are). I do like slower songs, like visiting friends on Sung Tongs, or Radio Cure from YHF to name a couple.

I find a lot of rocker ballads are for the "hey ladies, check out how sensitive I am" kind of guys, and I generally hate those artists. Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, Sam Roberts, Jet. Blah.

Five days in and it's already a Radiohead thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Pulque:
Maybe your general dislike of ballads is colouring your perspective? Can you give a few specific examples?

Of course my dislike is affecting my judgement.

A few examples would indeed include Jet, The Vines Winning Whining Days, and of course the glam-metal, pop/rock crossover acts like Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, etc. I especially hate it when a pop star comes out and says that he/she is going to make a record that is more *honest* and *from the heart*, even though you know they're just putting out garbage because they could find any good hooks or were too lazy to write anything with any energy.

I enjoy a few ballads, but the vast majority of musicians really habe to earn their slow songs with me. One or two per record is OK, but it's important that they fit in with the artistic vision. "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails is what I would call a good ballad; the difference is that it seems honest because the entire record is spent going down the spiral towards this pit of remorse. That works, but it's because that record as a statement needs a song like that. Jet and The Vines, Bon Jovi and Aerosmith didn't need to write any trash ballads into their albums.

quote:

Originally posted by Musicalifragilistic:
I assume ballad to mean "slow, love song". Not just a slow, mid-tempo song.

It can mean that, though I would drop the "love" part. There are plenty of ballads about death, loss, etc but a general rule is that they are always serious. Deadly, dully serious, almost never ironic or funny as that would undercut the *sensitive* message. Sometimes that works, other times it's terrible.

quote:

Originally posted by Musicalifragilistic:
I find a lot of rocker ballads are for the "hey ladies, check out how sensitive I am" kind of guys, and I generally hate those artists. Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, Sam Roberts, Jet. Blah.

Heh. Yeah, that's the very worst kind, the pop/rock crossover so ambiguos that everyone can think that song is about/for them. Impersoanl, unspecific, and wretched.

The definition of "Ballad" in the thread is totally subjective, by the way, it's not restricted to a love song or even a slow song (though that generally does help). I should also mention that choice two in the poll (I have no opinion/I tend to enjoy both equally) has a bit of a mistake; "both" refers to ballads versus rockers.

a ballad is simply a song that tells a story. i'm for 'em

Oh I forgot to mention the most beautiful ballad (probably one of the best songs of all time), "God Only Knows" off of arguably the best album of all time, Pet Sounds.

I would argue that while fantastic, "God Only Knows" would be more of a mid-tempo song. It's got the staccato instrumental breaks, some driving percussion, etc. On Pet Sounds, "Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)" would be the best example of a true ballad. And it's a great one.

Ballads are my meat and potatoes!

I'm the chick who can listen to all of Sarah McLachlan's Afterglow. Seriously.

But- and this is a big but- I have to be in the right mood, and downtempo pop ballads do make me want to scream.

anything with a slow backbeat and scooping make me glad I don't own a gun or know the singers personally.

My favorite ballads are:

Jeff Buckley- Hallelujah

Imogen Heap- Hide and Seek

Vienna Teng- Passage (doesn't interrupt the flow of the album because it's the last song! Plus, who can piss on acapella songs?)

Flogging Molly- Grace of God Go I (again, acapella= automatic win)


And an extreme example of a ballad unmoored from context?

Extreme- More than Words (on the album called Pornograffiti. Yeah.)