I was encouraged to start a discussion that started in an Okkervil River thread Here.

The discussion is about bands that have a prominent musical and creative mastermind, but whose music is balanced by the editorial, critical, encouraging and creative response of a second, like minded, musician in the band.

This is a phenomenon I’ve been tracking for a long time now, and it’s surprising how common it is. And sadly, it’s typically highlighted when one of the two tries to part ways with the other and ends up tripping all over themselves. Thefanste mentioned the prime examples of Weezer and the Unicorns. Weezer were never the same after Matt Sharp left Rivers and the rest of the group. Stephen Malkmus makes above average music, but needed Spiral Stairs in Pavement to make music that was groundbreaking yet classic. The Smashing Pumpkins have recently shown us that even though James Iha wasn’t the best song writer in the world, he had a definite part in keeping Billy Corgan’s feet on ground level. Anyone familiar with Depeche Mode knows David Gahan is nothing special without Martin Gore standing behind him, and, as much as I love him, Martin Gore is nothing but weak alone. I’m fairly certain They Might Be Giants would be working at Dunkin’ Donuts by this time in their musical career if either of them had ever seriously tried to go solo (anyone ever even heard Monopuff? It’s a fairly descriptive name of John Flansburgs solo work.). Radiohead has done better than most, and some my argue this point, but Thom’s solo album, while hinting at greatness, lacks the heart and soul that Radiohead produces when he is backed by Johnny Greenwood. I remember vividly when At the Drive In first came around; people said they were going to change rock music forever. Then they broke into The Mars Volta and Sparta which turned out to be fairly middle of the road.

There are so many to name, but one I feel compelled to point out here is Neutral Milk Hotel. I'm convinced the genius of Neutral Milk Hotel was much much more than just Jeff Mangum. Listen to Jeremy Barnes' A Hawk and a Hacksaw, and then see what he went on to do partnered with Zack Condon in Beirut. Jeremy Barnes is maybe not a musical genius, but he is the quintessential Side-Kick charater required for a great band.

And on the subject of sidekicks, here’s a few more I can think of: Death Cab for Cutie (Chris Walla), Spoon (Jim Eno), The Wrens (Greg Whelan), Grizzly Bear (Ed Droste), Arcade Fire (Régine Chassagne), Cracker (Johnny Hickman), and Animal Collective (Panda Bear).

And to prove FragileKidA right, I’ll gush a little about Wolf Parade. The beauty, power and animal magnetism of the group comes directly from the battle and tension between the two song writers, who may have never blipped on anyone’s radar had they never created music together. Spencer would still most likely still be playing keys for Frog Eyes and no one would even notice when he made a spastic twisted solo album.

The reason this was in the Okkervil River thread is because all of this historical evidence seems to be leading toward a decline in quality now that Will Sheff’s side-kick Jonathan Meiburg has left the group. I personally hope this isn’t true, but only time will tell.

Oh and The Beatles.

So, what do you guys think? And what other examples can you come up with?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shadrach,

I like this thread but I will pick at a couple of your stances.

Grizzly Bear started as an Ed Droste solo effort so I wouldn't say he is the 'side-kick.' Also, they are one of those bands where all four members have key roles in the music they make. Daniel Rossen writes a lot of music and sings on a lot of songs, Chris Taylor produces most of the music, aside form his bass and electronics skills. A lot of their harmonies require all four of them to sing and though Droste's mostly solo album, Horn of Plenty, is a gorgeous album, I love the sound they are creating and progressing to as a band.

Also, Radiohead is also one of those bands that really are a "band." I really wouldn't say that it is just one of the Greenwood brothers and Thom Yorke pulling all of the strings. A lot of times Yorke will write some music and send tapes to the other four and when they begin to record, all five share their input and then make the music together.

Animal Collective is a great one as both Avey Tare and Noah create divine music together. However, it looks like Noah may be a better solo artist than Tare.

Wolf Parade is a good one but come on, Boeckner kicks Krug's butt on this last album.

Finally, The Beatles are one of the best ones. All four of them had a lot to do with the music, outside of the Lennon/McCartney mystique.

Here are some other two-headed monsters that made/make amazing music:
Steely Dan
Elton John (w/Bernie Taupin)
The Rolling Stones
U2
Roxy Music
Liars
Wilco (Tweddy/Bennett era)
Uncle Tupelo
The Black Keys

Good call on Animal Collective... and Radiohead.

I'll add:
The Libertines
The Raconteurs
TV on the Radio
Tenacious D
Blackalicous

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
I like this thread but I will pick at a couple of your stances.

Grizzly Bear started as an Ed Droste solo effort so I wouldn't say he is the 'side-kick.' Also, they are one of those bands where all four members have key roles in the music they make. Daniel Rossen writes a lot of music and sings on a lot of songs, Chris Taylor produces most of the music, aside form his bass and electronics skills. A lot of their harmonies require all four of them to sing and though Droste's mostly solo album, Horn of Plenty, is a gorgeous album, I love the sound they are creating and progressing to as a band.

Also, Radiohead is also one of those bands that really are a "band." I really wouldn't say that it is just one of the Greenwood brothers and Thom Yorke pulling all of the strings. A lot of times Yorke will write some music and send tapes to the other four and when they begin to record, all five share their input and then make the music together.

I knew someone was going to call me on the Grizzly Bear comment, but I stand by it. I firmly believe that the major strength of the group lies in Rossen. If you listen to his work in Department of Eagles, it sounds like less refined version of Grizzly Bear songs. Even more so than Horn of Plenty. I know that statement might be confusing since Horn of Plenty really was a Grizzly Bear album, but like you said, it was pre-Rossen. People really started to love the Bears after Yellow House, when the music was written mainly by Rossen. I give Ed the "side-kick" title out of deep respect for his songwriting abilities and his contributions to the group, but I will also agree that Chris Taylor is really the one in the thankless supporting role, and his vocal harmonies and instrumentation is really a major asset to the group as well.

Also, Radiohead isa multitalented collective. And I mean no disrespect to the group when I say Johnny Greenwood is the one that plays sidekick to Thom's musical genius. But I think Johnny is the most progressive member of the group. He has always been the multi-instrumentalist, and the one that seems to push the group to try harder and different things. I think the rest of them, without Johnny, would not have come quite as far. But that's my perspective from watching and reading about the band over the years.

Drive-By Truckers (Hood/Cooley) - Isbell was only with them for three albums, so he doesn't count, rihgt?
Sleater-Kinney (Tucker/Brownstein)
Buzzcocks, maybe?

Ahem... The Flaming Lips. Actually i don't know if the side-kick is Stephen Drozd or Wayne Coyne, but it warrants mention.

I don't know about the Malkmus/Spiral Stairs one, though, considering Pig Lib and Face the Truth are pretty damn amazin.

Morrissey needed Johnny Marr for the Smith's to be any good.

Lee Ranaldo from Sonic Youth.

Joey Santiago in the Pixies. [Though the last two have two members that get first-mention over Ranaldo and Santiago]

And the penultimate side-kick, Lou Barlow from Dinosaur Jr. was pretty necessary considering they started to wane once he left.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
Joey Santiago in the Pixies. [Though the last two have two members that get first-mention over Ranaldo and Santiago

I don't know man. I think the tension in the group that kept the Pixies from becoming Frank Black solo albums was most definitely generated by Kim Deal. No disrespect to Joey, he helped make them great, but Kim Deal was a powerhouse.

No mention of the Clash's Strummer & Jones yet. Also, the Kinks' Davies brothers.

quote:

I remember vividly when At the Drive In first came around; people said they were going to change rock music forever. Then they broke into The Mars Volta and Sparta which turned out to be fairly middle of the road.

Though I can see why people would dislike The Mars Volta and Sparta, At the Drive In's music has not aged well at all. Listening back, it sounds like an extension of Rage Against the Machine mixed with decent screamo.

Also, Page/Plant.

quote:

Originally posted by ProfAmaretto:

quote:

I remember vividly when At the Drive In first came around; people said they were going to change rock music forever. Then they broke into The Mars Volta and Sparta which turned out to be fairly middle of the road.

Though I can see why people would dislike The Mars Volta and Sparta, At the Drive In's music has not aged well at all. Listening back, it sounds like an extension of Rage Against the Machine mixed with decent screamo.

I agree that it hasn't aged well. I wasn't really all that into them at the time even. But they were doing something that was a little different yet still similar to the modern music at the time. I still listen to "Non-Zero Possibility" a lot though. That's a really good song.

At the Drive In are from my hometown, right here. It's pretty amazing to me that they reached such a high, national, critical peak with their music. Make no doubt about it; they were all the rage here when they were just starting out.

A lot of it had to do with the members possessing drastically different goals in the kind of music they wanted to make. And although they have both garnered some success since, it would have been nice to see where they would have progressed to.

The guys in the band were highly picked on in high school, especially Cedric and Omar. They were the "dorks" of their high school and everyone thought they were weird. Now, whenever Mars Volta comes into town everyone goes nuts for them. Funny how that works huh?

quote:

Wilco (Tweddy/Bennett era)

What about the Tweedy/O'Rourke era?

Well, they didn't really have an "era" seeing as O'Rourke was never a member of the band. A lot of people love to give him all the credit for Yankee Hotel Foxtrot but that was really Bennett and Tweedy's last album together—even though Bennett disagreed with a lot of it. O'Rourke only did some additional engineering and he mixed it.

He had a much larger hand in A Ghost is Born where he played a lot of instruments, and helped to produce, engineer and mix the album. He then played a minor role on the lackluster Sky Blue Sky, where he only arranged the strings.

I guess if you really wanted to, you could call it an era but I don't think so because he was more of a contributor/engineer to the band than an actual side-kick to Tweedy.

This thread is bringing up some interesting factoids. I like thinking about the things that go on "behind the scenes". The tendancy for bands to be seen as only a front man with some unimpresive quiet people playing instruments behind them is rather depressing sometimes when you consider all of the great heart and talent that always turns up when you really start to understand a group.

I thought of another prime example while you guys were discussing Wilco. The Jayhawks, with Mark Olson and Gary Louris. Gary played Chewbacca to Mark's Han Solo for several albums before Mark left him with the helm. It turns out he had some great things of his own to produce. I actually prefer Louris's version of the Jayhawks over Olson's.

David Andrew Sitek.

That man is one hell of a side-kick. Though he may not be a side-kick given how much he contributes to TV on the Radio. All that's on my mind is how much I'm enjoying Dear Science, so perhaps that's why I feel this way.

This is a bit of a leap, but J. Spaceman's multiple side-kicks seem pivotal to the emotional heft of his work. Maybe that doesn't work, but i think Spiritualized would be nothing without the massive symphonic backing.

Meg White. Sure, she's a terrible drummer, but the Raconteurs lameness just re-inforces that Meg White must be some kind of muse for Mr. White.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:

This is a bit of a leap, but J. Spaceman's multiple side-kicks seem pivotal to the emotional heft of his work. Maybe that doesn't work, but i think Spiritualized would be nothing without the massive symphonic backing.

I wouldn't say that's a leap at all, especially for Spacemen 3. Peter Kember did some pretty stellar stuff back then, particularly the great "Ode to Street Hassle". I like his vocals quite a bit, actually. It lends a nice balance to their stuff. I'm also guessing that Spaceman gets quite a bit of studio backing on his Spiritualized records considering the great sound on them. Even with the help, J is stil the man though.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
Meg White. Sure, she's a terrible drummer, but the Raconteurs lameness just re-inforces that Meg White must be some kind of muse for Mr. White.

Meg White is a terrible drummer? This is news to me.

The Raveonettes, anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
Meg White. Sure, she's a terrible drummer, but the Raconteurs lameness just re-inforces that Meg White must be some kind of muse for Mr. White.

Meg White is a terrible drummer? This is news to me.

You serious? And I'm not just saying that because everyone used to (or still does), but because i play drums (for over a decade now). I don't think she can do a drum-fill or even uses any toms other than floor-toms. Let's just say she keeps it incredibly rudimentary, even primitive. She plays the same thing in pretty much every song (with slight variations).

That said, i still think she's an important element to the White Stripes.

You really haven't heard that she isn't any good? Or are you trying to get a rise out of me and I'm just not following?

I wrote that out and realized you must be joking. It's been a long day.