quote:

No m leland, the person who looks like a jackass is the one who gets riled up because somebody didn't invest hours and hours of his life and hundreds of dollars in cash just for the sake of giving his musical darling an extended 'chance'.

If you listen to half of Exile on Main St and half of Sticky Fingers and don't like anything you hear, odds are you won't like anything the Stones did. Why shouldn't I apply the same educated guess to Waits?

I'd probably ignore you otherwise, this much is true. I don't expect you to like Waits; hell, most don't. I dislike plenty. I don't "get" plenty. But I'm not so pompous to assume less than an hour's worth of listening entitles me to label anyone, especially someone with a 30-year legacy, as overrated.

quote:

Have you listened to every track off every album multiple times for every artist you think is overrated?

Before I'm willing to take shots, yeah, I try to hear a good bit of it. I've listened to The Aracde Fire's debut a dozen times, The Fiery Furnaces catalog at least that many. I feel educated enough to call 'em overrated. I dislike most Dylan, but I don't think he's overrated — a distinction you're clearly not capable of making.

Leland, this is a MESSAGE BOARD. Not a music publication or anything that's supposed to be professional. There's no reason not to come to a MESSAGE BOARD and say what you think of an artist, even if you haven't spent hundreds of dollars to hear everything he's already put out.

Your real issue is that you really like Waits and you feel I should give him special consideration before I decide I don't like him just because he's one of your favorites.

The mature response would have been not "Oh my god you're such a jackass!" but rather something more along the lines of "We'll agree to disagree." This is just a MESSAGE BOARD. It doesn't need to be serious and you don't need to put hours and hours of research into every little thing you say.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobthespirit:
This is just a MESSAGE BOARD. It doesn't need to be serious and you don't need to put hours and hours of research into every little thing you say.

No, but a little more thought and consideration probably wouldn't hurt, Bob.

For an individual who has doled out his share of personal criticism you take an inappropriate amount of umbrage when you yourself are the subject of criticism. If you are going to make broad pronouncements on a wide variety of subjects in a public forum without a great deal of personal experience to back it up, you should expect to be called on it and consider having a thicker skin as regards criticism.

And if you feel compelled to continue this argument, take it to PM because this particular thread hijack is over.

Hmm...well, I don't know if I've logged the 1000 listen-hours I apprently need to officially be allowed to have a valid opinion on them, but here's a new 'Underrated'.

I think Outkast is underrated by people who aren't into rap. As I've mentioned I only own two rap albums, this and Edan, but I think what I disliked about previous rap albums that came into my position was the lack of variety. Stankonia has tons of variety and I'm now enjoying it about as much as I do some of the best rock and electronica.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobthespirit:
Hmm...well, I don't know if I've logged the 1000 listen-hours I apprently need to officially be allowed to have a valid opinion on them, but here's a new 'Underrated'.

I think Outkast is underrated by people who aren't into rap. As I've mentioned I only own two rap albums, this and Edan, but I think what I disliked about previous rap albums that came into my position was the lack of variety. Stankonia has tons of variety and I'm now enjoying it about as much as I do some of the best rock and electronica.

Do you think variety is really the cornerstone of a great artist? The Ramones had about zero variety in their music (until maybe later years), but were still great.

quote:

Do you think variety is really the cornerstone of a great artist?

It's a slippery slope — if it's not received well, people say, "C'mon, sounding like a stripped-down version of the Stooges wasn't such a bad thing, was it?" (Get Behind Me Satan). Then there's, say, Aimee Man, whose The Forgotten Arm I find worthwhile, but it's just another Aimee Mann album.

I'm wary of artists who don't explore. Stepping outside your comfort zone is healthy for creative development, so I question if the Aimee Manns of the world are afraid to fail...or if they might not have anything left in the tank.

Well, I think variety is a positive boon. But you're right, it's neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for good music. (And I personally love those albums where every track is drastically different from the last)

But, the issue that turns me off to a majority of rap is the monotony it often has. And all I'm saying is, people turned off to mainstream rap by the monotony ought to give Outkast a chance.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobthespirit:
But, the issue that turns me off to a majority of rap is the monotony it often has. And all I'm saying is, people turned off to mainstream rap by the monotony ought to give Outkast a chance.

I think that is an obvious statement and one that is known by many people.Outkast has been a different outlet for many years now, for rap fans.Ever since 'southernplayalisticcadilacmuzik' which i still think is there best album and then 'atliens'.
But there are tons of "rappers" and producers making hip-hop in the mainstream that are not close to monotanous and execute extreme stylistic differences.

Its just that most people group all rap and rappers in one big huge boat and dismiss it, if they gave it a chance they could find alot of artists that they could enjoy.

I am going to go away from hip-hop for a moment to Britpop.
Overrated
Radiohead--I liked The Bends, and I get that they "experiment," but I think most of their experiments fail.
Coldplay--I like a few songs, but I don't get into any of their albums as a whole.
Underrated
Blur--Go back and listen to some of the early stuff, it's great.
Elbow--This is my response to Coldplay. I know a lot of people agree, but I still don't think they get enough play.

I agree with Imprezu completely. Just, before this year I've bought five or six rap albums and didn't like them except for one or two singles. And Edan and Outkast are the first rap outfits who've produced an album I've liked as a whole.

Outkast vary their tempo and pitching in a way that Edan and Dizzee Rascal, two big critic favorites, don't.

OVERRATED

Nirvana

I include Nirvana not because I don't "like" their landmark release Nevermind--which I do trememdously--I include them because the legacy of this band's music has grown into a bloated, false legend supported by media hype and little else. Depending on who one talks to, Nirvana was responsible for:

1) Pioneering the "grunge" movement they cannot be held solely responsible for this; Pearl Jam's "Ten" was released almost contemporaneously;

2) Giving a voice to the undefinable, hollow lifestyles of the so-called "Generation X" (and by definition, making Curt Kobain a "voice of a generation")this is debatable, but I wonder if my generation will be passing down Nirvana the same way our parents passed down the Beatles?

and my favorite:

3)Ending a period of sterile, relatively boring "corporate" rock music which led immediately to another period of sterile, relatively boring "corporate" rock like Bush, Better Than Ezra, and countless others

In other words, Nirvana put out a good album 14 years ago. But that's all they did. The rest was hype.

Public Enemy

Public Enemy remains one of rap's greatest pioneers, and they had a couple of great albums (Nation of Millions...), but to maintain that politically conscious hip-hop began with PE--or that their songs were any more relevant that other early rap artists--is simply not true.

Underrated

John Mellencamp

I agree with all the previous comments on JM. His early work, from American Fool to Lonesome Jubilee, are timeless classics. His music will always be relevant. Even though some critics agree with this, not enough do. JM is a national treasure.

Pee-Wee said:

quote:

In the same vein, for me, is Jimi Hendrix. A genius, yes, but for the most part I personally don't wanna listen to his stuff.

I agree. The strange thing is that many acknowledged guitar greats say the same thing. Eddie Van Halen, for example, reportedly never paid any attention to Jimi at all.

I don't think Patton's underrated at all. He seems to have carved quite a nice niche for himself. The critical acclaim has started to nosedive a little, but I rarely read a bad review.

All of the artists we are discussing have a large following, which makes overrated/underrated seem like a difficult proposition. Hmmm....

I would probably offend everyone if I said who my most overrated artist is (everyone seems to love them and it's not Radiohead!). The most underrated artist is my mate Jack.

I don't think that's fair (not to tell), but are you implying the Black-and-White-and-Red Duo?

To be honest, I'd forgotten about them!

No, I'd go for the Chillis or Coldplay as most overrated.

Whoever said Kiss has a good point too.

You may throw the tomatoes now...

Overrated artists:

Kraftwerk, The Smiths, Led Zeppelin, The Stone Roses

Underrated artists:

The Association, Teenage Fanclub, The Raspberries, Scott Walker.

I think Oasis is the most overrated band over the last ten years.
The one band that I feel history has forgotten is Bad Finger. Buy their greatest hits CD and see if it doesn't blow you away.

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. Rikard:
The one band that I feel history has forgotten is Bad Finger.

Worse. History cold-cocked them, kicked them while they were down, jumped up and down on them a few times and THEN forgot them.

It seems all that's remembered are the handful of hits while their wonderful album Wish You Were Here is completely overlooked. "Got to Get Out of Here" probably belongs in my entries for mark's Music that Makes You Cry thread.

Now Playing: "Li'l Darlin'" Count Basie

Under-rated:
Dion- can sing anything
Donovan- much hipper than his faux-hippy rep makes him out to be.
Ronnie Lane (both with the Faces and Solo- Small Faces get the respect they deserve.)
The Style Council- the best band in the '80s.
Mike Watt- even his last album, a rock opera with organ/bass/drums was as punk as they come
The Youngbloods- I like them better than the Byrds. Even their hippy anthems don't feel too dated.
The Raveonettes- especially these days. I mean the first song on their new album is the best Ricky Nelson song in forty five years! That counts for something in my book.
Sonic Youth- I wish someone told me they were this listenable years ago.
Over-rated:
Radiohead: They make me sleepy.
The Cure
Gang of Four: since when were you supposed to dance to punk! Okay, they are alrite, maybe, but they are spawning more crap bands these days than the Greatful Dead- didn't think it was possible.

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Originally posted by J_Deighton:
Under-rated:
Donovan- much hipper than his faux-hippy rep makes him out to be.
Mike Watt- even his last album, a rock opera with organ/bass/drums was as punk as they come

Good calls!
Donovan certainly has an unfair rep. I had always avoided him, but his greatest hits has been in my heavy rotation ever since I picked it up a couple of months ago.
Mike Watt, in addition to being one of the most humble, genuinely friendly person I've ever had the opportunity to meet, is extemely overlooked. Contemplating the Engine Room is one of my favorite records of the 90's.