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Do they want/need the money that bad? Am I overreacting?

No and no. I mean, I really don't like it when an artist allows his stuff to be used in a commercial, but this has gotta be worse. At least they aren't butchering your song in the commercial (most of the time, anyway). I hate Franz Ferdinand anyway, so I don't really care that they licensed their song to Kidz Bopz. But dammit, Modest Mouse's music is awesome. He just loses a lot of respect in my eyes when he does that kind of garbage.

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Originally posted by Karen:
Are Modest Mouse and Franz Ferdinand overrated? WHY would these critically acclaimed bands with loyal fanbases give the okay for their songs to appear on Kidz Bop? Do they want/need the money that bad? Am I overreacting?

I side with the artist's desire to make a living here. While I personally might not care for where they license their songs or what stores or companies they make deals with, I try to avoid criticizing the things they do for money. Careers in the music biz are fleeting...you gotta make what you can while you can. I wouldn't let appearing in a commerical or on a soundtrack or on Kidz Bop affect my enjoyment of the music...unless, as Karen points out, it leads to never being able to hear the song the same way because the new version is so bizarre.

I tend to take the hard line on the "selling out" discussion...I think a lot of people who criticize bands for "selling out" just want to keep them to themselves and their isolated little world forever, which is selfish, from my point of view. I may not LIKE what they're shilling, but I can't blame them for taking the opportunities to make money while they can. Who knows how long the gravy train will last for Modest Mouse or Franz?

With Modest Mouse I think 'Moon and Antarctica' is underrated and 'Good News' is overrated.

FF..I don't know. We'll find out whether they're overrated when they release another album. Their first is quite good. But we don't know if these ponies have more than one trick yet.

As for the 'selling out' thing, I only think a band is selling out when they actually change their sound to make more money. If they just try to maximize profit from their existing sound, I don't care.

Franz is only going to get bigger and sell more records, Modest Mouse may have had their one shot at big money with Float On. That was the only track to do well in the mainstream on that record. If they don't write another song that appeals to the masses on the next album, it won't sell. Franz on the other hand, had a huge hit with Take Me Out, but This Fire did pretty well, too. As for either being overrated, you can't judge that by a kidz bop appearance, since it doesn't change the quality of the music on the album they put out. I thought the Franz album was decent, definitely not worthy of the praise it got, but it's better than a lot of other records that sold over a million copies. Same thing goes for the Modest Mouse album. As for calling them sellouts, I would have said no before the kidz bop thing, but now...I don't know, maybe. Who can blame someone for wanting to make money?

And The Moon and Antarctica is way better than Good News.

Underrated: Black Crowes, Foreigner "Double Vision", the Strokes

Overrated: Dave Matthews Band, Pink Floyd, Radiohead past Kid A

Underrated: Progressive/Power Metal -- Most people who actually know what it is declare that it's been dead ever since the 80's expired, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Granted, there are plenty of unoriginal, cookie-cutter bands that still exist within the genre today, but that can be said for any genre of music. I don't consider myself a 'metalhead' (I can't stand most modern nu-metal and death metal) but I'm still a big fan of this particular style.

I'm probably gonna get hell for this but here is my opinion: You can actually like a band but still think they are overrated..here is my list:

Overrated bands/artists I actually like: Tori Amos, Smashing Pumpkins, Bright Eyes, Marilyn Manson (last album sucked), Pixies, Hendrix (hate the voice)

Overrated bands I dislike: Nine Inch Nails, Gwen Stefani (and No Doubt), The Misfits, Sex Pistols, Minor Threat, Nirvana

underrated bands I like: Joy Division, Crispy Ambulance, Black Tape for A Blue Girl, Judgement of Paris, Lowsunday, Rosetta Stone, Bad Religion, Sage Francis, Eyedea, Moody Blues (everyone knows Nights in White Satin but they have SOOO many good songs), Leonard Cohen, Charles Manson (his folk albums are real good), Non-Prophets, alias, Current 93, Damian Rice, Sean Lennon, Peter Murphy, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Boyd Rice/NON, Cabaret Voltaire, Placebo (at least in the US), Nick Cave, John Cale, All My Faith Lost, NICO!!!, Buzzcocks, Alice in Chains, Acid Bath

Overrated artists:

Nirvana, Joy Division, Kraftwerk, The Smiths, The Stone Roses and Bonnie "Prince" Billy.

Underrated artists:

The Ramones, The Byrds, Teenage Fanclub and Aimee Mann.

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I feel bad even listing a couple of those artists/bands because I'm very well aware of their contribution to further "popular music". With Nirvana.. I owned the records like everyone else and was into like everyone else. But some 12 years or more later after it all happened the only record I can even bare to listen to (and I love) is "Unplugged". It's such a great record that it captures (for me) the essense of everything there was there that's worth remembering. When I hear "In Bloom" or "Heart-Shaped Box" on the radio they both seem stuck in time, I hope that makes sense. They are stuck in 1992 and 1993, respectively and best left there.

With the other 'Overrated' artists.. I like a few Smiths singles and a couple of Stone Roses singles, same with Joy Division. However I can't listen to full albums... I have to force myself into "appreciating" them. For me, to own their albums would be just trying to impress some onlooker with my taste..not really being "into" them.

Kraftwerk... yikes. Way over my head.

As for the "Underrated"; The Ramones might seem like an odd choice but I don't think they have the street cred they have deserved. Most critics cite The Clash or Television (both of whom I love dearly) quicker than they site The Ramones. That's my reasoning for their selection..

With The Byrds, I think they are too quickly blown off as a Dylan cover band not as the great American rock group they really were, with 12 string guitar and harmony that influenced everything from "Revolver" to R.E.M.

Teenage Fanclub I think made the best album of 1991, slightly ahead of MBV's "Loveless" though history has been written (at least for now) that "Nevermind" is the record of that year and for many, the decade. TF took all the things I love (Big Star, Pet Sounds, The Raspberries) and put it in blender and out came "Bandwagonesque". I think time will be kind to them in another decade or so.

And lastly, Aimee Mann is one of the most important artists working today, I think. Along with the affore mentioned TF (and others, of course). She's got kind of a niche going but I think she's "underrated" enough to be on an "underrated" list.

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Underrated: Black Crowes, Foreigner "Double Vision", the Strokes

Is it possible for the Strokes to be underrated? Aren't they, like, the most hyped band ever?

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Overrated artists:

Nirvana, Joy Division, Kraftwerk, The Smiths, The Stone Roses and Bonnie "Prince" Billy.

I can't speak for 3 of those, but I totally agree with Kraftwerk, Bonnie "Prince" Billy, and Joy Division. I don't see what's so great about Kraftwerk and I can't stand the other two.

I think Nirvana's just suffering from oversaturation backlash of the highest degree.

They were *so* overplayed back when they were big that it's taken over a decade for people to stop being tired of them. But I still count Nevermind and In Utero among the best music of the 90s.

AC/DC has to be my biggest 'overrated'. I would group them with 'scream over loud riffs' music like Megadeth and with hair bands, but so many people who aren't into metal and seem to have otherwise good taste in music swear AC/DC is one of the greatest bands ever.

All I hear is screaming about how they are great and like sex a whole lot over predictable, uncreative loud guitar.

As far as the overrated catergory goes i'm going to have to go with the Streets, I tried to like A Grand... so much but I pretty much just found it annoying. It was a novel idea, and the story was kind of cute, but I just can't sit through the whole thing. I also agree with Bright Eyes being Way overrated
Underated I would go with the Misfits whom I love so dearly, but who always seem to get overlooked. I just feel like they don't get enough credit for making some of the best music of the late 70's/early 80's.

Overrated...
1. Doors - doesn't even need explaining.
2. Grateful Dead...Jam band that can hardly play?
3. Led Zepplin - Music aging horribly, and back half of catalog (post Houses) sucked from the start.
4. The Who - Another band, that though producing true classics, catalog hasn't held up against seeming peers at time.
5. Sting/Police - Sting Possibly the dullest rocker of all time. Singlehandedly ruined Leaving Las Vegas.
6. AC/DC, Aerosmith, Guns N Roses...all good not great bands admired more for attitude than accomplishments.
7. Joy Division/New Order - Boring!!!!
8. Lou Reed Solo.
9. Stones post exile
10. Beatles (Sgt. Peppers Only)
11. Sex Pistols
12. Jeff Buckley.
13. Pavement.
14. Coldplay - Not the New U2, but the new Journey.
15. All Solo Beatles work save Plastic Ono Band, especially Imagine and Day's of Future Past.
16. Pixies - Just hate this bands sound.
17. NIN, Ministry - Ditto. Just not an industrial guy.


All Underrated -
1. Kinks
2. Love
3. Mott the Hoople
4. Moby Grape (One album at least)
5. Tool - My favorite Metal act of last 15 years.
6. Byrds
7. Spirit - One of the Greatest B-tier Bands ever. 12 Dreams a goofy, LSD fulled forgotten classic.
8. Mark Lanegan
9. Bobby Fuller Four
10. Keane - They get trashed and trashed for their wimpy sound, but songs don't get much more gorgeous than "Your eyes open."
11. Snow Patrol - Another talented band that gets unfairly trashed because it lacks balls.
12. Stooges - Take them over the Ramones any day of the week.
13. Primal Scream - Recent efforts have ranged from excellent to phenomenal...no one cares.
14. Sleater-Kinney - Soemthing from Woods should be playing on Alt Radio every day every hour.

Hmm..it's hard for me to think of Sleater-Kinney as underrated considering their last five or six albums (Depending on whether you count Woods yet) have been among the five or six best critically reviewed albums of their years. You mean popularly underrated?

Bran Van 3000 is my biggest 'underrated'. I can not believe 'Discosis' is not hugely popular among critics and audiophiles. Must be because it's Canadian or something...

Primal Scream is probably my biggest 'hit or miss' band. Screamadelia, XTRMNTR...hit. Vanishing Point, Evil Heat...miss. But XTRMNTR is easily in my top ten so far of the decade.

Overrated
---------
Coldplay
Broken Social Scene
The Doors
Beastie Boys
Wilco's 'Yankee Hotel Foxtrot'
The Decemberists
Bruce Springsteen
Rufus Wainwright

Underrated
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The Wrens
Wilco's 'A Ghost is Born'
The Dismemberment Plan
The Streets
Pat Metheny

overrated:
- The Who
- Neil Young (Can't stand his whiny voice)
- Cream (Never liked their sound)

Underrated:
- The Clash (Although they are quite popular, I still feel they don't get enough due.)
- Spoon (Just great songs)
- INXS -(Laugh all you want, but they had some killer grooves.)

I just listened to some tracks off Rain Dogs based on some compelling arguments in the chat room.

I have to say...I liked track 1, but then tracks 2-5 descended into sort of self conscious weirdness. It's like he was trying to do a Captain Beefheart imitation with his vocals over a sort of fluky indie-ish backdrop..

So I'll have to say Tom Waits is overrated.

And I just downloaded some Clap Your Hands Say Yeah tracks from their website. I just do not get why anyone sets them apart from other indie bands. Maybe it's because the instrumentation and vocals are derivative of two very different styles of music, and they think the combination is original, but...I don't see how that was enough to get that much praise from non-Pitchfork sources.

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I just listened to some tracks off Rain Dogs based on some compelling arguments in the chat room.

I have to say...I liked track 1, but then tracks 2-5 descended into sort of self conscious weirdness. It's like he was trying to do a Captain Beefheart imitation with his vocals over a sort of fluky indie-ish backdrop..

So I'll have to say Tom Waits is overrated.

So you're claiming an artist is overrated based on a half-ass listen of a couple tracks on a single album? Bold. I'd, you know, actually listen to the whole fucking thing. Maybe even a second time. Maybe even a second album.

It wasn't a half assed listen, and if you want to donate your Tom Waits albums to me so I can listen to them all legally, I'll be happy to do so.

And I've also heard tracks off Swordfishtrombones.

If you heard eight or nine tracks off two different albums that are supposed to be the artist's best, and kind of liked one and disliked the rest, wouldn't your filter activate just about then?

Or are you insinuating I should give Tom Waits special treatment because you like him so much?

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If you heard eight or nine tracks off two different albums that are supposed to be the artist's best, and kind of liked one and disliked the rest, wouldn't your filter activate just about then?

You need to hear more than 1% of an artist's catalog to make an educated argument for or against his rightful place in history. Othwerise you just kind of look like a jackass.

No m leland, the person who looks like a jackass is the one who gets riled up because somebody didn't invest hours and hours of his life and hundreds of dollars in cash just for the sake of giving his musical darling an extended 'chance'.

If you listen to half of Exile on Main St and half of Sticky Fingers and don't like anything you hear, odds are you won't like anything the Stones did. Why shouldn't I apply the same educated guess to Waits?

Have you listened to every track off every album multiple times for every artist you think is overrated?

I'll also add that my original post was completely upfront about exactly how much Waits I had heard, and I never tried to pose as an authority on Tom Waits, or music in general. I'm just an audiophile offering my opinion.