At the risk of starting a brawl akin to the "Great Sonic Youth Throwdown of December 2004," here's a topic: who do you think are the most overrated, underrated, or simply not rated bands around? Who gets TOO much credit? Who gets too little? Who SHOULD get credit but nobody cares about?

I realize this thread might have some commonalities with the "Skewering Some Sacred Cows" thread, but I hope people will provide a nice list of all three year, rather than just provide the overrated band.

Here are few from the top of my head:

OVERRATED: The Doors, Nirvana, Jeff Buckley, Jackson Browne

UNDERRATED: The Kinks, The Who, The Jam (boy...my inner mod just came out!), John Mellencamp

More later...

It's funny you started this thread this morning, pE. I was going to post this article from The Guardian Unlimited this morning on "Skewering Some Sacred Cows."

You're right, this is an improvement on that thread. It's fun to take the idols down a few notches, but a bit too easy and in the end it's not like the chatter it generates leads you discover much of anything new.

I heartily agree regarding The Doors. I like their records, but the ongoing cult of Jim Morrison as poet gets up my nose.

Nirvana is more problematic because I think their influence is undeniable. If the question, though, is whether the music is good enough to justify that influence, is a good question.

Jeff Buckley recorded a pretty great album. He then promptly died under bizarre circumstances. Which truly made his reputation?

I'll buy The Kinks and The Jam wholeheartedly and raise you XTC.

The Who? Really? Underrated by who (or should that be whom?).

I would have agreed with you regarding Mellencamp until moving to Bloomington five years ago destroyed my objectivity. You cannot escape being constantly reminded of his genius around here has made and it's made me tired enough of hearing about it that I'm tempted to shove him into the other category.

OVERRATED:

Guns N' Roses Somebody call me on this one because I might be swayed. On the one hand, they had all the trappings of the hair bands of the day, but actually rocked. On the other hand, I often think Appetite for Destruction only sounds great compared to the pitiful output of their contemporaries...then I hear "Welcome to the Jungle" again...I'm so conflicted...
James Taylor My answer to pE's suggestion of Jackson Browne (another one we agree on). Perhaps it's only my own perception, but he's always seemed something of a critical darling to me, which I've never gotten. He's a less than able songwriter, a competent guitarist, and as the performance of "A Change Is Gonna Come" he crapped out on this past week's The West Wing amply illustrates, an awful singer.

UNDERRATED:

The Cars Yes, I know. They sold millions of records and dominated MTV back in the day. Both fact, however, have given them a reputation for being a much lighter weight and less influential band than they were.
Billy Joel I'm losing count of the number of people who look around surreptitiously before admitting with obvious embarssment that they like Joel's early catalog, which was consistently excellent. So what if his later catalog doesn't match up to it? We still get to like Elton John's early catalog despite, well, pretty much the last twenty years.
Al Kooper The enormity of his genius is exceeded only by his non-existant reputation out of very small critical circles. I can't explain it and I don't like it.

Now Playing: "Ruby Tuesday" The Rolling Stones Between the Buttons (ABKCO)

I love Nirvana for Kurt's righteous indignation at how f*cked the world is and Jim Morrison, like it or not, is a poet. I have 3 books of his published, non-lyrics poetry so, even if you think he's a putz, that makes him a poet (in the case of Jewel, she's a really horrible coffee-house fake sell-out poet but a poet nonetheless). I don't agree with the blind worship of celebrity status which is a large part of what drives his image to this day.

Overrated:
The Darkness - I can't stand jizz bands that will only ever sing about jizzing in various stages.
Bjork - I respect her as an artist but not as the reclusive genious most worship her to be.
Lenny Kravitz - I lost all respect for him the second the flopped out on that Gap commercial with that half-assed, derivative song he wrote for it.

Underrated:
Joy Division - Nobody talks about them enough.
Immortal Technique - Crutial to the state of hip-hop and the world.
The Flaming Lips - I don't think their influence has been fully appreciated.

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Guns N' Roses Somebody call me on this one because I might be swayed. On the one hand, they had all the trappings of the hair bands of the day, but actually rocked. On the other hand, I often think Appetite for Destruction only sounds great compared to the pitiful output of their contemporaries...then I hear "Welcome to the Jungle" again...I'm so conflicted...

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I'm callin you LT. So many good songs, "Paradise City", "Welcome to the Jungle", "Knocking on Heavens Door", "Sweet Child of Mine" I can't call them overrated.

Overrated:
Godsmack-Most of their songs sound the same, with a couple exceptions.
Aerosmith-"Sweet Emotion" is very good, but that cannot save all of the bad cds that have been released in the last 5 years.
But I couldn't agree with you more on James Taylor LT. And I completely agree with you Filmore on Lenny Kravitz

Underrated:
Tool-not given enough credit, excellent band.
Queen-most people only know of Queen through "We Will Rock You", but there are so many more good titles than that.

I've got to agree with GnR. They pretty much are The Darkness. They do have some wicked barstompers and November Rain is a personal fave but Axle's concert ditching flakiness has forever ruined his voice for me. Aerosmith has always been a huge sell-out band for sure (and pretty much everything after Toys In The Attic has been strained).

I guess I AM the only one that even moderately likes "The Darkness"...man...

No, there's tons of you, man. I lived in Scotland for a year and you'd think they were the second coming of The Beatles to those bastards.

Hmmn...it is prety hard to argue overrated and underated.It all depends what kin dof circle you are in and what kind of city u live in.There are some albums that i think are huge...because literally everyone i know is talking about it.But...in saying that...there is on criminally underrated album that springs to mind...not only an album but as a group.That would be...

Organized Confusion

consisting of:
Prince Poetry aka Prince Po ( more recently)
Pharoahe Monch

There self titled debut is easily the best rap album of the 90's.It trumps anything...and some may say that it could be one of the best albums to come out ever.

They had three albums...and u cannot call yourself a true hip-hop fan if u dont at least own one of them.


Also one that springs to mind is

Maker-Honestly

Easily one of the most underrated producers in indie rap today.This album is spot on...except for a few minor less than great lyrical poerformances.Also check out Glue.

Nice to see some good life on this one. I'll offer a few comments on the various posts:

I wasn't sure about adding The Who, but I think they get passed over in the pantheon of "great" rock bands pretty often. And XTC is a good add, LT. I wondered about the Kinks, who get namechecked alot, but who didn't sell NEARLY enough records. Those HP commericals with "Picture Book" reminded me of how great they are.

James Taylor and Jackson Browne both have some songs I really like...but neither have a strong body of work, overall.

I'm totally with FH on Bjork. I think The Darkness are more of a hype thing right now (much like Franz Ferdinand) courtesy of the British music press. I like that record for what it is...dumb hair metal. Not world shattering, to be sure, but fun.

I'm on the fence with G'n'R. But I do think Aerosmith gets WAY to much credit.

I meant to add Queen to my list, Mike. Good call.

I'll add, to UNDERRATED:

Aztec Camera, The Go_Betweens, and The Beuatiful South.

Sorry PE, I am unable to comment on our additions to your underrated list, because I have no idea who any of those artist are (I'll have to do some research and fix that). I will add to my lists as well though.

Underrated:
The Eagles-I truly can't understand why they tend to fall under the radar when talking about classic rock. "Desperado", "Take it Easy", "Life in the Fast Lane", "Hotel California" are all very good.
Stevie Ray Vaughn-One of the best blues/rock mixes ever.
Alice in Chains-Nirvana may be overrated, but Alice in Chains is ignored. Facelift is brilliant.

Overrated:
Carlos Santana-good with a guitar, but as far as rock goes, too much pop along side it now. He was great during the days of "Black Magic Woman" but just lost me with Supernatural.

Not Rated, but should be:
The Doobie Brothers-it upsets me that most people don't know who they are, but everybody has, at one point, heard "Listen to the Music."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: St. Mike,

Carlos Santana overrated???

I agree that his most recent ventures have been way too pop friendly.But we are talking abuot a very very good guitar player.My dad is virtually obsessed with almost every recording he has done ever(pre 1980 at least)...but that is besides the point.

I think the doobie brothers are rated exactly where they shold be.Middle of the pack at best.


If we are talking "classic" rock...I think steely dan and supertramp are a little underrated.Steely Dan always gets shuffled into Smooth rock or jazzy rock.I think the "Royal Scam" is genious...personally.

Lot's of good life to this one, indeed.

Queen is a good call. They were so far over-the-top that they don't get nearly enough credit for great songwriting, performance, and outright innovation and influence.

I can understand the inclusion of The Who. I don't know that they really get nearly the same respect that The Rolling Stones do, for instance, and they're easily their equals. The mods get no respect. The Kinks, I think, are a given. They should get just as much acclaim as The Rolling Stones and The Who. Their also-ran status has always baffled me.

As regards Aztec Camera, The Go-Betweens, and The Beautiful South...yes, YES, and YES!!!. I've been grateful that you've championed The Go-Betweens so much as their catalog has been reissued, pE, because it has prompted me to spend a lot of quality time with their catalog and I'm glad I am. I first discovered The Beautiful South with the album 0898, which led me to seek out the rest of their catalog. For the life of me, I cannot understand why they dominated the British charts and did nothing in the U.S. While we're on the subject it's probably worth putting a plug in for The Housemartins.

I don't know if I buy The Eagles, Mike. Perhaps twenty-five years in the classic rock heaven that was St. Louis back in the day, but I think they get plenty of props. If the argument, though, is that their popularity eclipses their critical acclaim, I'd agree with that.

On a similar note, I take issue with Steve Ray Vaughan. I don't know that he ever suffered for critical or popular success before or after his untimely death.

Santana's an interesting addition, too. The sheer volume of albums may dilute the overall quality, but it's hard to deny just how great they were as a band, and how great Carlos is as an individual musician.

I don't know that I have a ready addition to my list of overrated bands, but I'll throw in a group I think is becoming increasingly underrated, Crowded House. In the years since they broke up, I feel like they've fallen off the radar and that's a shame. They produced a consistently great catalog that's well worth hearing.

Keep 'em coming!

Now Playing: Pittsburgh leading Jacksonville 14-7 at the half...ahh the joys of surfing the web from my favorite sports bar...

I'm not so sure about The Eagles. Everybody knows who they are, everybody has heard Hotel California, just a lot of people don't like 'em. I'm kinda on the fence. I like some of their stuff but it's often too wishy-washy to keep me interrested.

Alice totally but I'll go you one further and call Mudhoney deeply under-appreciated. "Touch Me I'm Sick" is surely one of the top 3 grunge tracks ever.

Carlos I have to agree as well but only every album after his Abraxis and his self-titled debut. Everything after that was a repition and his last two coffee table yuppie albums solidified my loathing of everything he did after Woodstock.

Points well taken LT. Okay, I have another overrated artist.

Overrated:
2-pac, in my opinion, there is nothing to distinguish two-pac other than the fact that he was killed. I know I will probably get slammed by someone for this, but he really wasn't as great as he is made out to be.
Coldplay-I'm sure that there are not many fans of them here, however in the pop world they are way overrated, I liked this band before they were Coldplay, when they were called the Dave Matthews Band.

Sorry, rockers, but here's a HUGELY overrated band:

KISS!!!

Aside from the shameless marketing of all things KISS, I just think they're a mediocre rock band, at best. Some good songs, but some REALLY bad songs. "I Was Made for Lovin' You" should have killed them...yet they survived.

I'll take Cheap Trick over KISS any day of the week.

Flimore...I always thought Mudhoney was overrated, and then I stumbled into a free copy of the 2-disc best-of and changed my tune. The power of the early stuff and the range of great covers showed me the way.

quote:

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Originally posted by LinnTate:
Lot's of good life to this one, indeed.

As regards Aztec Camera, The Go-Betweens, and The Beautiful South...yes, YES, and _YES!!!_. I've been grateful that you've championed The Go-Betweens so much as their catalog has been reissued, pE, because it has prompted me to spend a lot of quality time with their catalog and I'm glad I am. I first discovered The Beautiful South with the album _0898_, which led me to seek out the rest of their catalog. For the life of me, I cannot understand why they dominated the British charts and did nothing in the U.S. While we're on the subject it's probably worth putting a plug in for The Housemartins.

I don't know that I have a ready addition to my list of overrated bands, but I'll throw in a group I think is becoming increasingly underrated, Crowded House. In the years since they broke up, I feel like they've fallen off the radar and that's a shame. They produced a consistently great catalog that's well worth hearing.

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There's a new Beautiful South record (Gold Diggas, Head Nodders, and Pholk Songs) out in the UK, LT, and it's a collection of covers. Mine is on the way, but I've heard they cover "You're The One That I Want" (from Grease) as a down-tempo dirge.

Crowded House is a nice choice. A great band, great records, one of the best live shows I've seen.

I'll also add the critically underappreciated Lloyd Cole, both with and without the Commotions.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: philosopherEric,

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Originally posted by Mike:

Overrated:
_2-pac_, in my opinion, there is nothing to distinguish two-pac other than the fact that he was killed. I know I will probably get slammed by someone for this, but he really wasn't as great as he is made out to be

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Ummm...no.He was just as popular alive as he is dead.I am not the hugest fan of him.But he did bring light to alot of subjects that other gangsta rappers would not touch.

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I liked this band before they were Coldplay, when they were called the Dave Matthews Band.

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How is dave matthews even comparable to coldplay?
They are totally different...i hate both of them anyways...so i guess it doesnt really matter.

I've never really seen anyone compare Coldplay with Dave Matthews. I'm not sure I see the comparison, but that's neither here nor there. More often than not, they're usually considered to be Radiohead-lite.

As someone who likes Coldplay, I'm not willing to defend them as being "appropriately rated." Maybe they're a little overrated. I'll still take them on the radio over a lot of the other junk out there.

Another band for the underrated list:

Spacemen 3

Were it not for the Spacemen, My Bloody Valentine wouldn't be so revered for Loveless. And they spawned some pretty cool bands, post-breakup, including Spiritualized, Lupine Howl, and Spectrum.

underated-
-The Black Dog aka Plaid
-Fat John-One of my favorite producers at the moment...I love all his solo works.
-Blacalicious
-Flanger-And every other really no name artist on ninja tunemaking their own unique brand of elctronic flavored jazz...esp.Skalpel.
-David Axelrod-The godfather of cinematic rock.Hugely oversampled artist also
-The Orb-Electronic Pioneer??


Overated-

-kanye West-Yuck
-Trevor Jackson aka playgroup...and his label output sucks.
-Matmos-Dont get it...i do not want to hear surgery needles and all these wierd found sounds spliced together.
-Sting-Has had a holier than though approach since the police.



Need more recognition


Jean Michel Jarre-I mean kraftwerk gets all the recognition of being the pioneers.
Jarre was the first electronic artist to sell 1 million records...in 1977.Was People man of the year in 1977???How come this guy is not in the rafters.You never hear about him.

He played to a record 2.5 million live people in Paris in 1990.
There even is planet named after him...the 4,422nd planet in the solar system..is named jarre after him.

Kind of wierd.I mean i could go on...there are som many facts about this guy..it is insane.


And i will just throw a few more names out there...

Pauline Oliveros
Pierre Schaeffer
Conny Plank

These guy smaybe mor eon the side of enginnering and prodcing...but they have laid the foundation for alot of major elements in all types of modern music.I will post more of them when i can.

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Steely Dan always gets shuffled into Smooth rock or jazzy rock.I think the "Royal Scam" is genious...personally.

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I once heard Steely Dan's catalogue described as being "some of the most subversive music you'll ever find on an Easy Listening playlist."


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