Hey guys, I am brand spankin new to the boards, so I'd thought I'd just ask you all a few questions about the music industry and what you all think about it...

As far as seriously listening to music and collecting albums, I have been at it for about two years. I am mainly into the lesser-known bands, or what some people might call "semipopular" music and indie music. I think many of us tend to think that we are accessing a very rich vein of music and art that not everyone knows about and not everyone has explicit access to. Yet, everyone should have the chance to access it freely.

I have noticed, as a consumer, that indie labels go through very few distribution methods to sell their CDs, and it is primarily online. That is not cheap. Along with mandatory shipping charges, new indie-distributed CDs normally run anywhere for 13-18$. Compounded with shipping charges, it is common to have to shell out a significant amount of money to get some music that is not accessible at most retail stores. Being young and not loaded with cash, this really becomes a burden when wanting to hear new music all the time, as a fan and a collector, and not illegally rip off the bands that we wish to support.

Now, there is supposedly a mindset in the indie circles that it's all about DIY, about making the music despite popular tastes, and that its really about the fans. As we all know, thats really more idealistic than what actually is. But it seems like high prices and limited availability (which, what do you know, compliment each other quite nicely) is going to put a stranglehold on the culture of independently released albums. The forecast for our economy looks somewhat dim: prices are rising all over the place, stocks seem to be dropping very reliably, and the not-too-distant future is going to smack us in the face with a dearth of crude oil resources, etc., etc., etc. Now I don't wish to combine doomsaying with the small-scale economics of indie rock industry, but it all effects each other (as well as us) significantly. The high prices and the strain on the buyer could ultimately put a stop to the distribution of independent music, which, right now, is flourishing. This could definitely be the case as economic strain causes us all to hold on to our money a little tighter...

Now, getting to the point, I would just like to ask everyone what they think of being forced to buy high-priced albums and if they sense any degree of hypocrisy or unfairness in the way the indie labels have such a firm grip on prices and distribution. The fact is that if they have products people want, then they have the leverage to do whatever they can get away with.

But does it ever seem like it is a bit hypocritical to suck the money out of the fans who care so deeply? Does that seem like you are ever being taken advantage of?

I just would like to know what the general consensus is among all of you, considering we are all here for the same reason, which is, our love of music.

I agree with most of what you say. I'm an old fart, still on dial-up, have no cell phone, have been buying albums the old-fashioned way for 40 years now. What I do is combine up my options. I live in a large metropolitan area, so if there's some album I really want, the chances are that one of my stores (local, Wherehouse, Tower) will have it on sale the first week. If they don't, I check the net. Between Amazon and Barnes & Noble and their free shipping with a purchase of over $25, you can still find some deals. Also, if you go to concerts, the artists sell their CDs cheaper than anybody usually. I got the first import TSOOL album (20 songs-70 min.) at a concert two weeks ago for a flat $10. If none of that works, then I just go without and buy the next set of interesting music which comes along.

One thing's for sure, there's a seemingly-endless supply of good music coming along. If I just stop buying music altogether, I'll be stuck with my vinyl, cassette and CD collection of a history of about 40 years of music packaged into about 2100 albums. I'll probably live, but I understand that I've already made my investment. So, I DO agree that it's getting more expensive but that's where you make your choices about what music you get and how, where and when you get it.

Most indie releases are still far cheaper than "full-list" releases from major labels, where the "list" is $18.98 or even $19.98.

A disc from Merge, or Bloodshot, or Matador will run you around $14.98 (sans shipping). Prices are on the rise, to be sure, but that's the case in all aspect of life.

Musicians could, I suppose, push to keep prices down. Some do (Fugazi). I don't feel scammed by record labels or bands. I CHOOSE to buy these records, and sometimes I pay more than I'd like. But I could simply abstain from buying them. Plus, more and more, there are value-added items (bonus discs, DVD's) that make the purchase more desirable.

The tactic that DOES piss me off, tho, is the constant (and immediate) re-release of albums. Franz Ferdinand did it, Wilco does it, and R.E.M.'s recent spate of reissues did it. It's THOSE kind of tactics that make me feel taken advantage of...

Go to indie stores. In New England there's a chain called Newbury Comics. It usually has all the indie releases I'm looking for, and sometimes imported stuff that hasn't hit US shores yet (I found Bloc Party there a month before March 22).

Almost everything new is on sale for $10-13, and those that aren't are $14-16.

If you aren't somewhere there's a Newbury Comics, there's probably other indie stores to be found.

The only thing that makes me feel taken advantage of is the record company tactic of giving radio stations big kickbacks to play only the stuff they want them to play. Sometimes I feel if Clear Channel had it's way, record companies wouldn't sell anything for more than a month at a time, and they'd charge $25 per disc because of the restricted supply. And it would be impossible to even hear anybody who wasn't on American Idol exists, thus increasing the demand for the crap they endorse by reducing options.

Indie stores are great. Vintage Vinyl and Euclid Records in St. Louis have low prices and often have good used discs.

Sadly, not every town has a good indie. Most college towns do, and bigger cities do, but there are some that don't. Those people are just SCREWED!

Cheapcds.com, man...cheapcds.com.

The average price is about $12, and with shipping it comes to $14. Not as good as indie stores, but better than you'll find on the web, mostly.

I must be pretty unfortuante to live where I do, which is a smallish suburban town with no real thriving music scene. The closest retail place that sells a truly wide variety of anything is a store in Hollywood called Amoeba, and its an awesome place...but that's over an hour drive away and they don't even do mail order...

Yeah, I guess I *could* abstain from spending money on music, but, come on now, that's no fun...

It's not really much of a complaint, however, I just noticed that there is really no other viable options...I just bite the bullet anyway.

I get your frustration, Sancho. I have moments where I get frustrated by the inflation of prices...when I first started collecting music (in earnest), you could get a used disc for about 6 bucks and new discs rarely topped 13 bucks. I make more money now, but the prices have risen enough to make it a wash.

The stuff that really gets me pissed, though, is the repackaging of new albums with new material. They do it with DVDs, too.

Well, just don't buy into it! Yeah, I know you want it, but is it worth it? I wouldn't know because I've never bought into it whether it's a CD or a DVD. I don't know why that is. I guess that I'm just so attached to listening to things in the "good old days" that I've never gotten into a competition with myself to get what I missed. I loved collecting things when they were "new", but when they're "old", I feel like maybe I'm being "taken advantage of".

Well, sometimes with bonus material I wonder what the heck we're missing from the new albums.

Take The Who Sell Out. I think Melancholia, Early Morning Cold Taxi, and Girl's Eyes are great songs. If those got left off the original LP, makes me wonder what good stuff's getting left off the new bands' albums.

It's kind of like those people who try to make the best White Album imaginable out of only two sides. You either make way too long an album, or you risk leaving out some gems.

The best "White Album" possible is the one The Beatles put out in 1968, even though my best friend still likes to tell the story that "Hey Jude" was supposed to go where "Revolution 9" is and that Lennon was pissed when the latter song wasn't released as a single. Don't mess with the album The Beatles.

quote:

Don't mess with the album The Beatles.

Have you heard "Rev9" by The Shazam?

.

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Originally posted by flem_snopes:

quote:

Don't mess with the album The Beatles.

Have you heard "Rev9" by The Shazam?

No, I still miss a lot. Tell me about it. I'm on dial-up, and I'm downloading something large now, so I won't be checking up on it for awhile.

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Originally posted by mark f:

quote:

Originally posted by flem_snopes:

quote:

Don't mess with the album The Beatles.

Have you heard "Rev9" by The Shazam?

No, I still miss a lot. Tell me about it. I'm on dial-up, and I'm downloading something large now, so I won't be checking up on it for awhile.

Rev9: a 7-song EP released in 2000 by Nashville pop rockers The Shazam.

The closing track is what I believe to be the first-ever (and likely last-ever) attempt to do a cover version of the Beatles' "Revolution #9".

.

Yeah, mark f, I know what you mean about not caring so much about what I've missed lately. I've kind of felt that way recently and have started to go back and listen to older stuff. It's all great music and I've found some good sites that's lighter on the bank account as well.

One place I've been buying a lot of stuff is www.yourmusic.com, with a lot of older and more popular stuff for like six bucks a pop. Been boning up my classic rock collection with that for the last little while.

Other than that, I am just a bit more judicious about buying new releases nowadays, putting in a little more time into research into stuff I would actually want as opposed to albums I may like but not go nuts over.

The only reason I'm looking so much into newer music right now is that I feel I have 80-90% of the best stuff from the sixties and early 70s already, whereas anything from 1977-present is rather untapped. Plus I feel the odds are, any great old bands I'm missing sound pretty similar to the other old bands I've listened to over and over for the past couple years. Whereas, new stuff might have some new sounds and new ideas.

Plus...as I've mentioned in some other thread, music being new just somehow intangibly adds to the experience of listening. Like, when I talk about The Decemberists I feel I'm part of the conversation, whereas when I talk about The Ramones I feel it's all been said.