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"Forum Moderator" Jedi |
So...Pitchfork once again is ripping off ideas from the Metacritic forums and decided they'd do a column on indie rock and religion. Remember when someone started that Best Album Covers (or maybe it was Worst Album Covers, I can't remember) thread and about 5 days later Pitchfork had a feature on the very same subject? If hipsters everywhere imitate Pitchfork and Pitchfork imitates the Metacritic forums, does that make us the true ultra-hipsters? I'll leave that question to the philosophers.
Anyways, it was a decent article. Kinda short. Nothing really deep or spectacular. They really should've given it a fuller treatment if you ask me. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
Too funny. They even mentioned 16 Horsepower. ----- Stay gold, Ponyboy. Stay gold. |
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Jedi |
Jebus. The only thing it's missing is member quotes.
At least we got David Thomas Broughton reviewed. |
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Apprentice Guru |
Unfortunately, they, like us, are not really qualified to comment on the place of religion in society. I expected it to be a much longer column, as they routinely run reviews that are twice that length. Nonetheless, Dahlen makes his point without being too forceful; it can be quite annoying when people go overboard about tolerance. And no matter how you feel, it's difficult to argue his point: it is unwise to discard a work of art simply because you disagree with the artist.
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Participant |
Johnny Ramone was a conservative.
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Apprentice Guru |
As a clergyman I have followed this thread with interest. As I believe about film, I think most artist that do "good" work address relevant social issues, problems, and offer solutions, good and bad. If a song makes a real attempt to recognize truth in life, describe it, bring it into the public domain for consideration there is always a spiritual dynamic in what they are doing. I am a Christian, yet I do not think truth belongs only to those of my faith. There are nuggets of truth everywhere, even in songs that do not try to be "religious" (whatever that means). I do admit that, for me, truth is intensified and personified in Christianity, but that does not exclude others from participating in the truth as they encounter it. For example, George Harrison's "Krishna" faith permeated his songs, and many of those songs offered us a perspective of truth that transcended his personal faith. The songs spoke to anyone who listened for the spiritual dynamic evident in a song. For example, his final album "Brainwashed" contains the song "(If you don't know where you are going) Any Road Will Take You There." That song cuts across all religious lines because it is a true statement. Green Day's "Jesus of Suburbia" (though unsettling for Christians, and I admit it difficult in places for me to listen objectively) still causes us to look critically at the relevancy of our faith and the way it is lived out in middle-class America. This may shock many, but I do not buy many "Christian"albums. I find that some, not all, of the artist tend to focus on the perspective "the world is going to hell in a handbasket and we are just waiting for Jesus to come back and fix it." Many of the songs offer pat answers to complex issues that require a great deal of soul-searching and prayer, and a belief that God can transform culture in the here and now. I look for songs that strike the note of truth about our current culture and the world condition. I then apply my personal faith to those observations. So, maybe the dialogue needs to shift from "does the song mention God" or "agree with my personal faith" to "does the song mention the truth that is evident in society and the world, and that God cares deeply about." In summary, I personally like music that poses as many questions as it offer answers. Only after dealing with the questions can I appreciate the answers my personal faith offers.
Boy, you got to carry that weight a long time! |
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Know-It-All |
I'm sorry I missed the hot moment for this thread but it is/was interesting. I don't have much to offer other than an historical perspective and when I say historical I mean we step into the "Wayback Machine." Athropologists tend to point out that cultures (groups of people, large or small) worldwide gravitate towards a few common endeavors. Those tend to be a form of communication, governance, sport, art (note, music falls here), and a way to explain our existance (Uhhh...religion.) It seems obvious that these tendancies would interact with each other thus a reason for our art to reflect and question each of these ur-urges. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say other than its to be expected that our art supports and undermines all of the other traits of culture. So, whether you support or ignore music artists due to religious, political, or social stances it is understandable and expected.
I also fell in love with U2 because/in spite of their religious stance but for sure for their rock'n'ess. |
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Apprentice Guru |
Very well-said. As someone who was raised Southern Baptist and has lived his whole life in the South (and is haunted by the memory of 9 hours spent in cars on church-related trips listening to nothing but Jars of Clay and praise music), it's refreshing to hear this perspective from a clergyman. I think that you are absolutely right when you talk about religious musicians sometimes providing answers that are too simple--this approach is extremely bothersome to those who disagree and is probably central to the rejection of religious music by non-believers. |
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Guru |
I want to resurrect this thread. It's awesome.
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Guru |
I still think this thread is awesome.
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Guru |
I was bored earlier tonight and reading the Pitchfork Sufjan Stevens interview where I caught this quote from Sufjan:
"There must be, subconsciously, some correlation over whether there's an audience for your work-- does your work have value? I think it's gross that correlation exists..." Is he saying he thinks it's "gross" that the audience for someone's work depends on its value? I have been saying all along that I think the reason so many actors and musicians are liberal is because they distrust capitalism--they distrust a system that rewards people based on the value of their work because they think all people's work has essentially the same value. Sufjan is saying, "I don't understand why I am having all this success just because people liked my Illinois album. My other albums were just as good. This must be gross." |
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"Forum Moderator" Jedi |
I think it's more likely that he thinks the real value of a piece of music doesn't come from its popularity. Come on, Pax, you know that the most popular music out there is not good. Most artists will tell you that the real value of their music lies in the fact that they created that music and infused it with their heart and soul. Whether their music is met with popularity and financial success is secondary. And do you really think Sufjan thinks that everyone's work is of the same value? Does anybody believe that? |
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Guru |
What I think is that Sufjan made two good but not great albums in Michigan and Seven Swans and got little attention for it, then he came along and made a great album in Illinois, and now he is saying, "Why is there so much attention for me with Illinois when my previous albums were just as good?" In Sufjan's mind what he is doing now is just as good as what he was doing three or four years ago. He doesn't necessarily think everyone's work has the same value, but he does think that his work does. That is why he distrusts this correlation between quality and appeal--he doesn't think the quality has changed.
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
This thread might be right up some newer members' alleys.
 "Naked Woman, Naked Man Where did you get that nice sun tan?" |
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Know-It-All |
Quite possibly my favorite political lyrics of all time:
"Ladies and gentlemen, without a safety net I shall perform a 180 flip-flop I shall now amputate, I shall now contort Because down is the new up What if I just flip-flopped?" ("Down Is the New Up," In Rainbows disc 2) As someone who dislikes the vast majority of all politicians, regardless of party, I think this is great. This is a very good thread, btw. Anyone else have some favorite lyrics? _______________________ I think I might have heard you on the radio But the radio waves were like snow |
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Jedi |
My favorite political lyrics of all time come from Pedro the Lion's "Indian Summer". Which is meant to be taken deeper than just political, but still are amazing on even a superficial level.
"Don't you just love the sun? Doesn't it make you feel good all over? It's my pleasure to announce In conjunction with the fed And my recent popularity Thanks in part to mother nature It will never rain again It should do wonders for the GNP If you're just joining us now You missed a brilliant speech We go now live in the streets To find out what the voters think He's worked a miracle I just now bought a brand new car God bless the Indian summer God bless the Indian summer" Awesome. And so sadly true in so many ways. |
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Know-It-All |
So, hopefully a short rant:
I attended the 2007 Coachella (awesome) with some friends of ours, and we were all astonished to see all the Bush-bashing going on. Not because Bush-bashing is uncommon, but because IT WAS EVERYWHERE. Not only the people attending were protesting, but even the musical artists made a statement during their sets - almost every one of them. Now, I know the people that generally attend or play these things have incredibly leftist views (more power to them), but c'mon! This is a MUSIC festival, not a political rally. I personally can't stand Bush - he's really flushed our country down the toilet in more ways than one. But I didn't come to hear how much him and his administration sucks - especially YEARS after he's been screwing things up. I know he's an idiot, so does everyone else, wait a couple years and he'll be out. After awhile, me and my friend Jacob started thinking up clever catchphrases for Bush '08 t-shirts (which I won't repeat here - sorry guys, there's profit to be had). I think Noel Gallagher said it best, in reference to politics in music: "If I wanted to hear about politics, I'd go read the paper." That being said, Rage is very good at speaking their extremely violent political agenda, in a way that goes down smooth. But one reason I think an artist like Bjork, whose latest album Volta is one of her weakest is because of her political agenda. It's just tiresome and monotonous. Thanks for letting me rant. It's something that still bothers me to this day, and I hope Coachella '08 won't be that ensconced in political tripe, and that musicians will simply play their instruments. As for religion in music... that's for another post.  "The only thing hotter than this hot tub is you two ladies." |
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"Forum Moderator" Jedi |
I don't understand these lyrics. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I'm not sure I totally get them either, but it seems like references to Global Warming and homeless street corner people seeking donations, but, you see, it's not Global Warming; it's God's Will. And those aren't the homeless, those are rich politicos conning you outta enough money for a new Caddy. [freak interpretation
]"Naked Woman, Naked Man Where did you get that nice sun tan?" |
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