quote:

Originally posted by grabblegarrr:
Typical shitty Mike post. Fuck you and your shitty humor. Troll.

You and your fucking sad faces. Get off my forum. No one likes you.

quote:

Originally posted by grabblegarrr:
You and your fucking sad faces. Get off my forum. No one likes you.

I'll put out next time jesus, don't be so crabby about it, it's not my fault your herpes are back.

Blimey - this is a bit different to the letters page in Guitarist Magazine. Some of these guitar tutors are quite volatile aren't they?

'Hello students, today we will be looking at the pentatonics. Can anyone tell me how many notes are used in this scale?'

'Is it 6?'

'Shut the f*ck up you stupid ***king f*ck. Talking to you is about as much fun as seeing blood on my toilet paper. I hope you die.'

They never taught me that strategy on my PGCE course. Does it produce an effective learning environment for aspiring youngsters? It wasn't like that back in my day. They just used to beat you over the head with a wooden board duster.

quote:

originally posted by BlackGravel:

We should be done talking shop now.

I really don't like your attitude. There was a discussion going on about the merits of Elliot Smith's guitar playing and then you come in with your "Now we can move on" and your "You don't want it with me." Other people were posting samples of Smith's playing and I appreciate that and now I actually do respect his playing more than I did before and I can least see why people would like his playing. However, as I've pointed out, ( Memory Lane Roman Candle) I don't think he has a command of the instrument that warrants him being called "great." Maybe he was have bad nights when he played those shows, but I hope that you can understand why, after seeing those clips, I would have some reservations about his playing.

You said "You don't want it with me" and I took that to be a warning from you that implied that you are oh so knowledgeable about music that I can't take you on in a discussion. And yet you state that tone is "a combination of things like vibrato and expression." If you truly did know a lot about music you would know that vibrato is a left hand technique and has nothing to do with the right hand technique that I was talking about and expression is something that results from tone, it's not an element of tone. Now we can move on.

However, I fear that will merit another reponse!

I'm a guitar tutor as well - albeit a pretty strange one. There seems to be a lot of us about.

As far as I'm concerned, I just help guitarists get to where they want to be - whether that's playing surf-rock, reggae, jazz or death metal is immaterial.

You have to show students what the 'rules' are so they can pass grades, but Kurt Cobain didn't pay any attention to them and he certainly made a lot more money than I did. Then again, I never played that dreadful solo on The Man Who sold the World and I still own most of my head. Cold comfort, but there you go. I like Nirvana before anyone complains!

I always consider that whilst certain guitarists adopt unconventioanl strategies, those methods invariably find their way into more traditional techniques eventually. I do my best to learn about them, but I pick and choose which ones are relevant for the task at hand. My own playing style is a mixture of conventional and unconventional techniques. The general idea being that you learn the rules before you break them. It avoids all that stuff with developing bad habits as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:
Blimey - this is a bit different to the letters page in Guitarist Magazine. Some of these guitar tutors are quite volatile aren't they?

'Hello students, today we will be looking at the pentatonics. Can anyone tell me how many notes are used in this scale?'

'Is it 6?'

'Shut the f*ck up you stupid ***king f*ck. Talking to you is about as much fun as seeing blood on my toilet paper. I hope you die.'

They never taught me that strategy on my PGCE course. Does it produce an effective learning environment for aspiring youngsters? It wasn't like that back in my day. They just used to beat you over the head with a wooden board duster.

Duncan, your version of School of Rock could be quite a bit darker than Jack Black's.

Wow, this discussion turned into a whole big sloppy mess of angry guitarists duking it out over god-knows-what.

No one has mentioned Isaac Brock, and that makes me incredibly happy because i don't really like the guy at all.

I don't know if anyone mentioned M. Ward, but his guitar-playing is really the only thing i like about him.

Jay Reatard is fun.
J. Spaceman
Walter Schreifels
Tonie Joy
Colin Newman is the most efficient guitarist i can think of... I'm not into the technicalities of guitar (drummer here) but i can tell he doesn't really do much, but what comes out of his guitar is simply amazing.

quote:

where's the love for Jonny Greenwood? J Mascis? Johnny Marr?

Don't think 'ol Jonny can be considered for greatest indie guitarists... well, maybe now he can, since he's no longer on Capitol.

J mascis and Johnny Marr have both been mentioned, but they need to be mentioned again.

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:
Then again, I never played that dreadful solo on The Man Who sold the World and I still own most of my head.

I really like that solo! I like the simplicity of it and how it lays perfectly in the mix with the cello.

quote:

Originally posted by Wilsonna:

quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Black:
Then again, I never played that dreadful solo on The Man Who sold the World and I still own most of my head.

I really like that solo! I like the simplicity of it and how it lays perfectly in the mix with the cello.

I know - A hell of a lot of people like that solo and it sums Cobain's personality up 100% - all messed up and unpretentious, but I can never get over the fact that musically it's completely wrong. It's a personal thing and I wouldn't criticise anyone for liking it for a second.

I always consider what would happen if I played like that in the local pub. People would be saying 'Who's that bloke? He can't play to save his life! Get off you wanker!'. If on the other hand I was a troubled rockstar with a heroin problem people would say 'So much feel man! He's like, really in pain you know?'.

Who knows - maybe they'd do both, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Hendrix did a lot of that too. When he was good he was amazing, but he really lost it on a number of occasions.

What?!! I'm a guitarist! I'm bound to be fussy! Stop throwing things! Ouch!

quote:

You said "You don't want it with me" and I took that to be a warning from you that implied that you are oh so knowledgeable about music that I can't take you on in a discussion. And yet you state that tone is "a combination of things like vibrato and expression." If you truly did know a lot about music you would know that vibrato is a left hand technique and has nothing to do with the right hand technique that I was talking about and expression is something that results from tone, it's not an element of tone. Now we can move on.

He doesn't like my attitude.

*falls off chair*

Vibrato is a left-hand technique? You're blowing my mind, dude.

And "expression is something that results from tone, it's not an element of tone" - God, please kill me now.

Even if you weren't this imperious, naive and irritating, I would still have said we should be DONE, because this is not A THREAD for guitar teachers to ARGUE about whether a great guitar player is great or not.


And yeah Black - it makes perfect sense that I'd treat my students the same way I treat some little piece of mucus like Mike Angelo. Obviously I must be condescending, abusive and excessively critical. Please. I know that was meant to be a bit of off-the-cuff humor, but be real about things.


I'd wager I'm friendlier and less punitive with my clients than either of you. I teach them what they want to learn, even if it's eighty percent garbage, with no negative commentary whatsoever. I pretty much have a whole process down just for teaching 16 year-olds to play "Eulogy." I also make sure to remain hilarious at all times.

I can't say I'm sure I'm the most ingratiating guitar instructor on the site, however, since apparently every last member not only plays but TEACHES guitar.


Regardless - now that I've RESPONDED to things that have been said about me (clarifying that this is a response so you dumbasses don't start talking about how I'm a "prick" again) we can get back to guitarists.

quote:

I can't say I'm sure I'm the most ingratiating guitar instructor on the site, however, since apparently every last member not only plays but TEACHES guitar.

I don't play or teach guitar. Should I be banned from this thread???

stephen malkmus makes the best guitar noises.

Marc Ribot.

I'm not sure if he counts as indie but he's got a very diverse and impressive body of work. He's also a good improviser.

Seeing Nels Cline wig out live makes me respect him a lot as well. And Malkmus has some memorable guitar parts, particularly on Wowee Zowee.

Any takers for Dave Hernandez (of the Shins)? I'm thinking of guitar parts from Chutes mainly, like in Kissing the Lipless, So Says I, maybe Saint Simon.

Kevin Shields. Surprised he hasn't been mentioned already, actually.

quote:

originally posted by BlackGravel:

Even if you weren't this imperious, naive and irritating

Oh I get it, you said "You don't want it with me" because you're the best at spewing out invective and I shouldn't mess with you because you'll unleash it on me. I guess that's what you do when you can't argue your point anymore. That means we're done with this discussion. Move on BG.

Epic final word there, playdough. You have just proven a guitarist you watched two youtube videos of,who everyone else admires specifically as a player, is "nothing special." I forgot how you did it - you said something about how you didn't like his tone. I, for one, am totally convinced. If he weren't dead, I'm sure he'd be scared to match axes with you.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackGravel:
I'd wager I'm friendlier and less punitive with my clients than either of you.

Come now Mr Gravel, it's not a contest. Besides anything, we don't know enough about each other for any of that nonsense.

I'm not attempting to offend anyone here and my previous comments were intended as humour. They weren't aimed at anyone specifically. I apologise if anyone was offended, and would be greatful if it was left at that.