What?!? He was an average guitarist at best. His ability was nowhere near the ability of people like Bob Mould, or Jack White, or Robert Quine, or D.Boon.
What?!? He was an average guitarist at best. His ability was nowhere near the ability of people like Bob Mould, or Jack White, or Robert Quine, or D.Boon.
You might want to listen again. Some of Elliott's guitar work was pretty difficult. Check "Southern Bell" if you don't believe me. You don't necessarily have to play solos to be a skilled guitarist.
I had a stick of CareFree gum, but it didn't work. I felt pretty good while I was blowing that bubble, but as soon as the gum lost its flavor I was back to pondering my mortality.
Posts: 566 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: 14 December 2007
You might want to listen again. Some of Elliott's guitar work was pretty difficult. Check "Southern Bell" if you don't believe me. You don't necessarily have to play solos to be a skilled guitarist.
It has nothing to do with solos. "Southern Belle" might have some moderately intricate right hand picking (it's in a bit of an odd style- with the the thumb and the fingers strumming individual strings simultaneously) but once you get that down it's just standard chords, mostly in first position, with some passing notes in between. He was a singer/songwriter and he learned guitar well enough to convey his songs. That worked out really well for him, but there's no comparison- Death Letter Not even in the same galaxy.
Originally posted by playdough: It has nothing to do with solos. "Southern Belle" might have some moderately intricate right hand picking (it's in a bit of an odd style- with the the thumb and the fingers strumming individual strings simultaneously) but once you get that down it's just standard chords, mostly in first position, with some passing notes in between. He was a singer/songwriter and he learned guitar well enough to convey his songs. That worked out really well for him, but there's no comparison- Death Letter Not even in the same galaxy.
When you learn to play these standard chords you're talking about give me a call: Tomorrow Tomorrow 1:38 - 1:58
When you learn to play these standard chords your talking about give me a call: Tomorror Tomorrow 1:38 - 1:58 Memory Lane
While I admit that these songs are not always using standard chords and that the tremolo in "Tomorrow" requires skill, it's still only moderately difficult guitar playing- notice that there are lots of people on youtube doing a good job of getting the song down. Okay, so I admit that he's a decent fingerpicking guitarist, but one of the greatest in indie rock?!? Give me a break!
When you learn to play these standard chords your talking about give me a call: Tomorror Tomorrow 1:38 - 1:58 Memory Lane
While I admit that these songs are not always using standard chords and that the tremolo in "Tomorrow" requires skill, it's still only moderately difficult guitar playing- notice that there are lots of people on youtube doing a good job of getting the song down. Okay, so I admit that he's a decent fingerpicking guitarist, but one of the greatest in indie rock?!? Give me a break!
There is no greatest guitar player in the world, it's all subjective. You have your favorites and others have theirs. Some can play guitar very well but can't make good songs, Elliott was able to play guitar good and make great songs and that's why I like him. Sure Jack White or D. Boon are good guitarists but in the end it all comes down to what your taste is and what you prefer more in picking your favorites.
Joey Santiago Peter Hook Eric Bachmann David Byrne Steve Albini needs mentioning here Duane Denison (Jesus Lizard) is completely awesome. John Schmersal for sure Wata from Boris Gustav Ejstes Ethan Miller (Comets on Fire)
Posts: 451 | Location: California | Registered: 06 March 2008
Let me say that again - I don't think technical ability should be even one percent of the decision. It matters not even one tiny little infinitesimal sliver of a bit. A dude who's played guitar for two months could play Cortez the Killer, and you could search 90% of the world of music to find a better guitar song.
I'm a guitar instructor; and I can tell you right now that any "virtuoso" guitarist who's revered for his chops or speed or technical aplomb will be ousted by at least one 16 year old who wanders through Guitar Center every day. And their favorite band will still be Seether. Nobody who knows what time it is gives a fuck about that nonsense.
as a fellow guitarist, i would definitely agree that technical skill shouldn't be a really heavy factor in determining somebody's ability to write great guitar parts, but you have to admit that technical skill can definitely give you the ability to write great guitar parts. as such, i think it should be considered. for example, i don't think there's a guitarist in independent music right now that writes more creative, impressive (and not in the pissing contest sort of way (like generic heavy metal and classic rock solos), but just awe-inspiring ability), and original guitar parts than ian williams. when i hear his guitar work, it's honestly like something i've never heard. THAT creativity impresses me (maybe i'm drawn to mathier guitar work), and his technical skill gives him the foundation to write parts like that. so i think it should factor into it. that being said, i agree that technical skill shouldn't be weighed to heavily....if that was your main factor, then nobody would have any argument here (because there are so many technically skilled guitar players).
I agree with Elliott Smith. Maybe he wasn't the most technically amazing guitarist, but he gets major props for coming up with some off-the-hook guitar riffs. I guarantee you that if you sat down with a guitar and cranked out "Memory Lane", people would be impressed.
----- Stay gold, Ponyboy. Stay gold.
Posts: 5377 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
I'm nowhere near the biggest Elliott fan, but let me just step in here real quick.
The person who's talking about how Elliott Smith is an unimpressive guitarist is wrong. Now we can move on.
CN said Eric Bachmann. JUST AS I THOUGHT! I was going to put him too, but I couldn't decide which of the Erics it was that did the real lacerating stuff with AOL. Crooked Fingers doesn't really have any of that same stuff, so I'm rather inclined to think it was Johnson and not Bachmann.
The nature of the argument, and the knowledge that most of us already possess about Elliott Smith and about his guitar playing, makes a simple contradiction a very effective and legitimate response. Others could make the mistake of engaging you; my statement is meant to prevent this by pointing out that we already know and can clearly see which idea makes more sense, and that pursuing the debate further is redundant and a waste of time.
I could teach a beginner how to play the guitar in that video for "Death Note" three times over before I could teach one to play "Angeles." Your assertion that Jack White's presentation of white people's one-hundred-and-fifty-billionth reinterpretation of the blues is in a "different galaxy" is the kind of twaddle that emanates mostly from kids with Guitar magazine subscriptions and three years of playing under their belts. The right-hand in Tomorrow Tomorrow (which I'd never even heard - again, not the biggest fan) suffices to seal the deal.
All that is somewhat superficial but come on, PD. You don't want it with me.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackGravel,
i mean, whether elliott smith is an amazing guitarist, i don't know. he's certainly a damn good songwriter. and he's definitely a good guitarist...you can't listen to "somebody that i used to know," and not think he's solid. meric long from the dodos is much more impressive to me though (in terms of just guitar work).
