And of course, once again, this discussion gets mired in semantics and accusations of condescension. Guys can we please give it up already?! There will be no final resolution! Indie can be whatever you want it to be! Like Alternative before it, it's just there to describe styles of music that don't fit into the mainstream! And even this is a position which will probably be challenged! But so what?! I'll still hold it. And all this discussion will do is further entrench us in our opinions. So continue.
Posted by treesgetwheeledaway That statement is ignorant in itself. Calling the meaning-bending public 'ignorant' ..
Please quote others correctly. Your response illustrates exactly what I am talking about. . I didn't use the word 'ignorant.' It is correct to say that certain members of the public are poorly educated and lack understanding of language; so what? I am ignorant of certain things. Its not an insult to call someone ignorant of something, However I did not use the word, so to quote me using it is imprecise. I tend to be precise in my word usage. Please be precise in your feedback, thanks.
My statement comes from an understanding of linguistics and sociology and is therefore cannot possibly be labelled 'ignorant' in the actual meaning of the term. You may disagree with my viewpoint, but my statement is not one of ignorance of the issue.
Lastly, I give up. This argument is pointless over a forum. Use words to mean whatever the hell you want. I'm not emotionally invested enough to care any more.
Oh, could I feel as I have felt, or be what I have been, Or weep as I could once have wept, o'er many a vanished scene; As springs in deserts found seem sweet, all brackish though they be, So, midst the withered waste of life, those tears would flow to me.
Posts: 2332 | Location: The ever silent spaces of the East | Registered: 12 February 2007
This discussion has answered my original statement.
According to the views expressed in this thread, indie could be absolutely anything - to the point where the word is meaningless and used in the wrong context. When 'Indie' is used in the wrong context it should be encouraged to further the evolution of language.
I was of the opinion that Indie had lost all credibility as a term of reference. This discussion is doing little to alter my opinion.
Indie could be anything, and by that definition it means nothing.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Duncan Black,
Originally posted by Duncan Black: Indie could be anything, and by that definition it means nothing.
I pretty much agree. I think it's fine if the definition evolves and now means something different than what it used to, but what has it evolved into? If indie's a genre, what is it? Melodic rock with experimental tendencies? Lo-fi pop? I can't imagine anyone agreeing on a definition.
Of course, by that logic, "art" doesn't mean anything either.
Originally posted by Duncan Black: Indie could be anything, and by that definition it means nothing.
Welcome to the nineties, when everything that wasn't hip-hop or processed pop was "alternative." It ain't anything new, bud.
------ Aren't there any girls out their who like good music? I need to and want to meet them. My favorite bands are Overkill River, The Nife, Songs:Ohio, and Nuetral Milk Hotel. Please let me know if your into indy music and like to go to show's and drink beer's and makeout.
Posts: 2321 | Location: ATL-abouts. | Registered: 24 October 2006
Welcome to the nineties, when everything that wasn't hip-hop or processed pop was "alternative." It ain't anything new, bud.
I'm 33 and I remember the 90s all too well - including the 'alternative' definition.
What we didn't have back then was a definitive style of music to match the 'indie' term - that started in the late 90s. Indie had nothing to do with sound.
Indie and alternative did what they said on the tin. Indie meant 'independent record label' (not a style of music) and 'alternative' meant that the music was an alternative to what the mainstream offered. Simple.
These terms now represent musical genres and that is not how they started out. The terms are hopelessly irrelevent and the scenes are based on stereotypes rather than musical creation.
I care less about what the scenes are doing than what the actual bands are doing. Sure there'll be some copycats that'll come along and try to hop on the indie bandwagon, trying to sound as much like Death Cab for Cutie as Creed did for Pearl Jam, but the fact remains that good music is being made, and for a lot of us, it's in that wide genre covered by the umbrella called "indie".
------ Aren't there any girls out their who like good music? I need to and want to meet them. My favorite bands are Overkill River, The Nife, Songs:Ohio, and Nuetral Milk Hotel. Please let me know if your into indy music and like to go to show's and drink beer's and makeout.
Posts: 2321 | Location: ATL-abouts. | Registered: 24 October 2006
Originally posted by Chamberk: I care less about what the scenes are doing than what the actual bands are doing
I think we are agreeing in a funny kind of way.
Indie is a phrase based on an industry term for record label status that has become a stereotype for 'bands with jangly guitars'.
Metal is simple - it just has to feature heavy guitars. Metal bands are famously proud of their metal heritage, as are jazz and country artists. Indie? I still don't know why it's classed as a genre.
Independent music has existed since musicians first got paid - in grammatical terms it's simply music that is sold outside of the mainstream. As a term, it has little to do with Morrissey's poetic lyrics or 'jangly guitar tone'.
Despite this, I can't post anything here about early Kylie Minogue records, because she's 'pop'. Even though she was indie at the time (although she's pop now). Aaaaarghhh!
Yea, that's kind of ignorant. Especially considering that many of the words we use everyday have accepted usages that are actually very different from the original meanings. Yes, words that you use too, Ishmael's Coffin.
Posts: 763 | Location: San Diego ==> Duke U. 2012 :D | Registered: 24 July 2006
BContrat, you're going have to make your point clearer. I see you referred to me, but I don't have a clue what you are saying.
Oh, could I feel as I have felt, or be what I have been, Or weep as I could once have wept, o'er many a vanished scene; As springs in deserts found seem sweet, all brackish though they be, So, midst the withered waste of life, those tears would flow to me.
Posts: 2332 | Location: The ever silent spaces of the East | Registered: 12 February 2007
Originally posted by Chamberk: I care less about what the scenes are doing than what the actual bands are doing
I think we are agreeing in a funny kind of way.
Indie is a phrase based on an industry term for record label status that has become a stereotype for 'bands with jangly guitars'.
Metal is simple - it just has to feature heavy guitars. Metal bands are famously proud of their metal heritage, as are jazz and country artists. Indie? I still don't know why it's classed as a genre.
Independent music has existed since musicians first got paid - in grammatical terms it's simply music that is sold outside of the mainstream. As a term, it has little to do with Morrissey's poetic lyrics or 'jangly guitar tone'.
Despite this, I can't post anything here about early Kylie Minogue records, because she's 'pop'. Even though she was indie at the time (although she's pop now). Aaaaarghhh!
I've got a headache.
For me, indie bands are bands that do indeed have jangly guitars and usually lead singers with tenor voices. Really, the only time I could see this being a big thing is if someone asked me what kind of music I listened to. I would say "Oh, indie rock", and then if they asked further I would mention a few band names. I think a lot of genre classification is kind of pointless, really, but I'll agree that "indie" is a really, REALLY broad genre.
------ Aren't there any girls out their who like good music? I need to and want to meet them. My favorite bands are Overkill River, The Nife, Songs:Ohio, and Nuetral Milk Hotel. Please let me know if your into indy music and like to go to show's and drink beer's and makeout.
Posts: 2321 | Location: ATL-abouts. | Registered: 24 October 2006
I believe BContrat is stating that many words have definitions that are far different from their original meanings, yet you still use them ignorant (or apathetic) to their original meaning/context.
To quote Daniel Dennett: 'There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear.'
Oh, could I feel as I have felt, or be what I have been, Or weep as I could once have wept, o'er many a vanished scene; As springs in deserts found seem sweet, all brackish though they be, So, midst the withered waste of life, those tears would flow to me.
Posts: 2332 | Location: The ever silent spaces of the East | Registered: 12 February 2007
