- One of my Top Three bands ever
- 'Washing Machine' is their third best album, those who say they didn't release anything good after 'Goo' are just plain wrong.
- 'Murray Street' and 'Sonic Nurse' are two of the best album releases of this decade.
- 'EVOL' is my all time favourite LP.
- 'Daydream Nation' IS slightly over-rated but only because the music press put their spot-light on it and built it up.
- I was slightly disappointed in 'Rather Ripped'

This topic is completely ridiculous.... sonic youth have consistently put out amazing records over a huge amount of time. Every album has a new touch, a new style, a new edge to it, they're amazing musicians with a social conscience that's displayed in their lyrics. They've influenced so many bands. Their impact on music is huge.

You just can't call them overrated.

Anyone calling Sonic Youth overrated doesn't understand the definition of the word. You can say you don't like them, as that's a matter of personal preference, but to blithely say that they are overrated doesn't make much sense when you look back on how many quality albums they have released, how many musical boundaries they have pushed forward, and what amazing musicians they are.

It's fine to not like them, but I don't think you can keep a straight face and call them overrated.

quote:

Originally posted by in limbo:
to blithely say that they are overrated doesn't make much sense when you look back on how many quality albums they have released, how many musical boundaries they have pushed forward, and what amazing musicians they are.

I don't think you can judge based on "how many quality albums they've had" because, again the quality of an album is an oppinion. What shows how good they are is how many people think they've had great albums.
Sonic Youth are great, in my opinion, as they made no-wave that loads of people wanted to listen to, not just some self obsessed snooty arty bohemian types in New York like the rest of the no-wave crowd.

Well I've listened to every album from their first EP to Goo and from there heard Murray Street and Sonic Nurse, and I have to say that they are just a fucking awesome band. Still I could understand if people were turned off by them. I mean they're not exactly the most accessible band when you first listen to them. I mean the first album I heard was Dirty and as soon as I heard 100% or Drunken Butterfly, I was regretting ever buying such shit. Now I love those songs and that album. I even really like Confusion is Sex. I've found for Sonic Youth, it's about not expecting the melodic twist and giving yourself over to the dissonance and finding the patterns and melody in there. Of course this becomes really easy when you listen to Evol, Sister, Daydream Nation, and especially Dirty and Goo, because there is actual "pop" (so to speak) on them. Seriously how can anyone resist a song like Teenage Riot, The Sprawl, or Total Trash. Or the rest of that album for that matter... grumble...

Agreeing with the above irritable overstatement does not mean you think SY are not a good or even (occasionally and regularly) a great band - just that you don't agree they are anything near the second coming of music that so many critics believe them to be. Personally I respect them WAY more than I like them - I see the influence they have but I prefer those they influence more than SY. Although I have to admit that seeing them live, especially on acid, will help anybody's appreciation of their wild dissonant talents!

quote:

What shows how good they are is how many people think they've had great albums.
Sonic Youth are great, in my opinion, as they made no-wave that loads of people wanted to listen to, not just some self obsessed snooty arty bohemian types in New York like the rest of the no-wave crowd.

WOW! This is one of the most erroneous statements I've seen here. I love Sonic Youth but you CANNOT quantify the quality of a band or their records by how many people like them. Nick Drake was virtually ignored in his time, does that make his music bad? Fuck no! Nickelback has millions of fans, does that make them good? Fuck no!

As for your statement about no-wave's other groups being snotty self-obsessed bohemian trash, Sonic Youth would've never found their footing without the support of Glenn Branca and other fantastic acts from the same scene such as DNA. Do some research next time you want to level a blanket statement against an entire genre. It makes you look foolish and uneducated. You're free to dislike Sonic Youth and any other no-wave all you please but making statements like these are just plain incorrect.

quote:

Originally posted by jonathanbrisby:

WOW! This is one of the most erroneous statements I've seen here. I love Sonic Youth but you CANNOT quantify the quality of a band or their records by how many people like them. Nick Drake was virtually ignored in his time, does that make his music bad? Fuck no! Nickelback has millions of fans, does that make them good? Fuck no!

As for your statement about no-wave's other groups being snotty self-obsessed bohemian trash, eSonic Youth would've never found their footing without the support of Glenn Branca and other fantastic acts from the same scene such as DNA. Do some research next time you want to level a blanket statement against an entire genre. It makes you look foolish and uneducated. You're free to dislike Sonic Youth and any other no-wave all you please but making statements like these are just plain incorrect.

Ok, I don't think I explained my point like I should have. I put into a couple of sentances what should have taken more time, but I was in a rush. So now I will write a long explaination of what I was trying to explain before.

To answer the first point you made:

Sonic Youth made an inaccessible genre accessible to a large number of people, thus had a larger fan base than their contemporaries. It's a pointer to their musical ability that they still have an audience today. The best music is often that which lasts. People don't listen to New Kids On The Block any more, but they used to, lots, but they were a fad, I couldn't name a NKOTB song if I tried. SY have something which allows them to keep going. It's quite a rarity for this sort of band to have such a large following for so many years, (given that early on their music was described as "noise"). There is obviously something extra to their music. They must have added something to the mix that others either wouldn't or couldn't. They have created something extra that their contemporaries have not. It's not bubblegum pop or throw away rock, and it's got this sustainability that shows it to be something of note. When you put it that "Nick Drake was virtually ignored in his time, does that make his music bad?" You're right it doesn't. The high regard he's held in now shows how great a musician people think he is. His music has sustained and he is thought of highly for it. (And yes I'm sure there is a large amount of music that's still around from 25 or more years ago that is rubbish and some good stuff that no-one knows about any more, but quantifying how good something is is nigh on impossible, so I'm having to pick and choose certain aspects to put forth my opinion). But this sustainability at least shows one aspect of SY's importance and why they're well thought of. Plus, due to their survival they are one of the main gateways to these other great bands who no longer receive much (if any) mention in the music press. Very little is written about this movement compared to other scenes. It's because of SY that a lot of people get into no-wave and these people wouldn't have listened to these less well known bands had it not been for SY. SY albums can act like stepping stones from what could be seen as more mainstream alt music to this almost non-music that was around in the late seventies.

Essentially, I'm saying that I think the sustainability is one of the things that shows how great SY's music is. I think my talking about fan base and record sales was not a good way of showing my opinion. I've always been of the opinion that how well an artist lasts is one thing that shows how good they are. They are still selling albums today because they are good, not because they are bad. Long term, consistent, album sales is probably a better way of saying what I meant. people still buy SY albums, Joy Division, The 'Mats and Husker Du, because they're good bands. Total sales no, not what I meant. Longevity, is what I was on about. These bands never sold loads of albums compared to a large portion of other acts. But these acts still sell today, long after the music was first made. No-one's going to buy Nickleback in 15 years, because Nickleback is a fad, and I think a crap one. They may do well now, but Wham! did very well in the early 80s, people don't care too much about Wham! anymore - and Wham! are one of the better purveyors of crap 80s pop.

I did not mean that you should measure a band's music by the number of fans on total album sales, Christ no. If using number of albums sold to measure musical excellence was my opinion I'd be championing The Spice Girls, and rueing the day they broke up. Not what I wanted to say at all. Sorry if it came across wrong.

As for your second critique of my post:

Your right it was a blanket statement, and maybe "snotty self-obsessed bohemians" was a bit over the top, and obviously not true for all (more likely not even most) of them.

I do know about DNA, James Chance, etc (not a huge amount, but a fair bit). And these bands did help SY get off the ground. I dislike an attitude that some of the more vocal pople in it expressed. What annoys me is that a fair number of the acts on this scene admitted that they didn't want to have any connection with their audience, they didn't want to like their audience. It is snobbish, disrespectful and ungrateful in my opinion to demote fans of your music. I know I wouldn't want to go to a gig and have the band act like they didn't want the audience there. If you don't want an audience play in you bedroom, don't do a show for a room full of people, people who have paid, and then treat them like you'd rather they weren't there. OK you don't have to be Iggy Pop when you perform and stage dive/crowd surf, but don't insult the audience.

And yes, there was a sort of brotherhood within this group of bands, and older bands helping promote newer acts is something that generally happens in most music scenes. At least all those I've ever known or been involved in. SY (particularly Thurston Moore) did it all the time whenever they got the chance.

I think I explained myself a bit better there. You're right, it was somewhat ambiguous and I a definite generalisation before.

Okay, this makes much more sense now that you've elaborated on it. I think we can definitely agree upon Sonic Youth having a lasting impression on the music scene, they have had a 20+ year career at this point and hopefully it won't end soon. I'm still unsure of your assessment about no-wave bands despising their audiences. I don't recall reading anything about that before now and especially not when I was reading the Sonic Youth biography Confusion is Next in which there is some discussion of the early no-wave/NYC downtown scene in the early 1980's. I also don't know how old you are so maybe you lived through some of that. I was born in 1980 so I can't say what it was like back then from personal experience, only from what I've read.

I haven't bothered to go through the rest of this thread to see the thrashing (that was totally deserved and hopefully received) by some of these completely misinformed early posts. Please don't call a band trash and over-rated after listening to a band that such a large, varying musical catalogue. You might as well call Radiohead garbage, or the Beatles, Bob Dylan, the Who, Rolling Stones, Beach Bys, Talking Heads, Brian Eno.... the list keeps going of people who have put out albums that can appeal to all different palettes.

Yes, I mentioned Radiohead haha.

Crash, for having the balls and accuracy to start this thread....I am forever indebted to you sir.

quote:

Originally posted by philosopherEric:

You neglected to mention that it had a candle on the cover and candles make fire and fire is COOL. Therefore, it must be a good record.

quote:

Originally posted by nojax:

Oh and candles are pretty tremendous but I have to say they are getting a bit overrated. I mean sure candles did the whole controlled flame thing first, but others have done it better since then, you know?

I know nojax is probably long gone, but I just stumbled across this comment and thought it was hilarious. I felt the need to repost it for everyone elses enjoyment.

Oh man, I truly tried to listen to Daydream Nation again this past weekend. Whoever's voice it is on that fifth song just murdered me. It's just so off. Teenage Riot is a great song but I can't get through Daydream Nation for the life of me.

I can't wait to see them play Daydream Nation in it's entirety this summer when I see them play in Los Angeles. I've seen them live 3 times before, and they're always extremely captivating and do a great job of mixing in the new material with some of the classics.

quote:

Originally posted by Chamberk:
Oh man, I truly tried to listen to Daydream Nation again this past weekend. Whoever's voice it is on that fifth song just murdered me. It's just so off. Teenage Riot is a great song but I can't get through Daydream Nation for the life of me.

That's Lee and if you absolutely hate his voice, then I would suggest trying a different band because he sings at least one song on every album. For me personally I love his songs, sometimes more than Thurston's. Lee always utilizes this great acid-soaked imagery in his verses. Oh yeah...and he can play the guitar pretty damn well too.

quote:

Originally posted by CouldBAnyone:
That's Lee and if you absolutely hate his voice, then I would suggest trying a different band because he sings at least one song on every album. For me personally I love his songs, sometimes more than Thurston's. Lee always utilizes this great acid-soaked imagery in his verses. Oh yeah...and he can play the guitar pretty damn well too.

Oh yeah, Lee is great. I love his semi-spoken word ramblings. DN features some of his best material, but my favorite Lee tune is probably "Skip Tracer" off Washing Machine.

"Row house row house pass through, let the city rise up twister, dust buster, hospital bed, I'll see you, see you see you on the highway..."

It's like, how can you NOT get into that.

Looks like Bono Agrees with you about Sonic Youth!!! LOL

http://bonoblog.com/

This is probably a stupid question, but Bono doesn't really write that blog, right?

(No.)

That blog is hilarious.

Almost as awesome as mine. Almost.