Um, aren't the White Stripes right out of Detroit?
Maybe they've relocated since, but last I checked they were all-American.
(Also I think Sasha Frere-Jones is a guy - though with only one male Sasha in my mind's eye, I picture him as Ali G...)
------ Aren't there any girls out their who like good music? I need to and want to meet them. My favorite bands are Overkill River, The Nife, Songs:Ohio, and Nuetral Milk Hotel. Please let me know if your into indy music and like to go to show's and drink beer's and makeout.
Posts: 2256 | Location: ATL-abouts. | Registered: 24 October 2006
That's why I was careful with my wording: "Britain-based". The White Stripes and Hendrix are both American-born, but both rose to fame in Britain and both live(d) in Britain. Which brings up another point I could make about his (I wondered about that) article: why place the blame exclusively on the artists? Perhaps the United States population isn't as big on blues and soul - that would seem to be the case, considering that American artists like the White Stripes and Gnarls Barkley are more successful in the UK than in the US. This isn't some recent issue, either; it dates at least as far back as Hendrix.
Posts: 25 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 23 January 2007
My problem with the article is the same problem I have with all of his articles. It's extremely condescending. There's a general vibe in the article that without some element of soul or swing, that music is inferior. I strongly disagree. And he goes to the trouble of saying he loves the Grizzly Bear album, but it's still too white. I don't understand why he would even bother listening to the band at all if that's what he's looking for. Sure, indie rock's got a lot of really 'white' tendencies, but there are plenty of soulful exceptions. In any case, whether he's right or wrong, what difference does it make? I don't listen to the Arcade Fire to hear a Curtis Mayfield influence, just like I don't listen to Ghostface because I want to hear some spastic dancepunk riffs.
I didn't take the article to be too condescending. More than anything it seemed to be an observational piece.
At the risk of sounding like a super old fart, I think some of you that grew up in the 90s don't necessarily realize how much different music used to be. Since the late 80s or so, there seems to be a much bigger separation between "white" music and "black" music than I remember growing up. I don't know whether that's a good thing or bad thing, but I think it's an interesting observation.
----- Stay gold, Ponyboy. Stay gold.
Posts: 5359 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
fair enough, it just smacks of the jaded words of an old timer "things were different in my day..." which is kinda funny. There's a lot of boring, shitty indie rock, but the problem with it isn't that it's too white, it's that they're all re-treading the same path of three-chord jangle pop.
Some other food for thought: there are a lot of Swedish artists incorporating soul/motown sounds, i.e. Jens Lekman, El Perro del Mar, and in a different realm, Sally Shapiro made a disco record, which is certainly meant for dancing. Sure you could argue they do it whiter than, say, Smokey Robinson would, but it's merely an influence, not something they plan on completely emulating.
What Frere-Jones doesn't mention is that some of the more successful R&B singles of late have actually sounded pretty white. "Umbrella" is almost a rock song, as is "Crazy."
lastly, if there's a bigger separation between black and white music, I think part of it is because there are so many styles and subgenres that certainly each will have its audience. I think it's a good thing that there is so much out there, though maybe not everyone agrees.
edit: and I definitely agree that segregation in those terms is a bad thing, but a lot of that can be attributed to marketing as well, rather than the art itself.
Originally posted by cuneyt81: lastly, if there's a bigger separation between black and white music, I think part of it is because there are so many styles and subgenres that certainly each will have its audience. I think it's a good thing that there is so much out there, though maybe not everyone agrees.
I agree. It's called evolution and progression. One of the problems with narrow-minded old timers is, unless music is somehow directly associated with one of the out-dated bands they constantly listen to, it's inferior somehow.
found this about our dear friend Sasha Frere-Jone's article. It's well written and points out a few things that Sasha is slightly biased towards.
Sasha has put LCD Soundsytems, Battles, Hot Chip and Yeah Yeah Yeahs on his best of list. All of these bands are in our indie rock thread but the problem is the name of the genre, as i'm sure most of you are aware of. The bands he most criticizes have a more folkish side, not a rock 'n roll side. They really aren't indie rock. they don't have a james brown soul. they have a woody guthirie soul.
Posts: 456 | Location: On the Road | Registered: 20 January 2007
Originally posted by hudson: One of the problems with narrow-minded old timers is, unless music is somehow directly associated with one of the out-dated bands they constantly listen to, it's inferior somehow.
Hello Pot, I didn't know you posted here too.
Sincerely, Kettle.
----- Stay gold, Ponyboy. Stay gold.
Posts: 5359 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 19 June 2005
Bleh. Same old, barely-disguised, racist tripe that black artists/people are "physical," "real," and "down-to-earth" while white artists/people are "square" and "cerebral," and thus need black people to make them complete. It's demeaning to both blacks and whites.
Originally posted by hudson: One of the problems with narrow-minded old timers is, unless music is somehow directly associated with one of the out-dated bands they constantly listen to, it's inferior somehow.
Hello Pot, I didn't know you posted here too.
Sincerely, Kettle.
I was thinking the same thing . . .
_____________________________ Weep to Water the Trees.
"This is my main concern with Obama; what if he has been groomed since childhood to blend in with the zionists and infidels? What if he has been led along by a radical islamic terrorist organization and positioned to become an influential politician?
What if Obama gets into White House and turns out to be some crazy muslim terrorist? What do we do then? We'll be pretty screwed. It could happen." -- by some fucking nutjob
Posts: 1996 | Location: The Noog, TN | Registered: 08 April 2007
To be honest. I think its a reflection of the type of bands around in the indie music scene today. To use the cited example: Arcade fire; they are all of anglosaxon decent. And if the music which people enjoy comes down to DNA (as suggested in the crude link to genetics the author makes) then why would AF be making music heavily influenced by African-american's?
I mean, if I were to start a band, I, as a white Australian, sure as hell wouldn't be playing african-american based music. Not because i dont like it, because i love soul music. But don't you think that its "african-american music" for a reason? maybe because A-M's are the people adept at producing soul filled music!
I say that while hes not right or wrong in his argument, he's foolish to assume that popular musics evolution is uninfluenced by race.
Xo
Posts: 20 | Location: Perth | Registered: 22 October 2007
Hey, TV on the Radio is a ridiculous awesome indie rock band, and they are mostly black. They are the exception to the rule, though - I can't think of a single other African-American person in a big indie band.
------ Aren't there any girls out their who like good music? I need to and want to meet them. My favorite bands are Overkill River, The Nife, Songs:Ohio, and Nuetral Milk Hotel. Please let me know if your into indy music and like to go to show's and drink beer's and makeout.
Posts: 2256 | Location: ATL-abouts. | Registered: 24 October 2006
It really sickens me when I see debates like this. You could easily say rhythmic content has it's roots in African music, heartfelt blues has it's roots also from black/African culture but then would you say that melodic content is solely rooted in classical music ala predominantly white/European culture? Is syncopated rhythm purely from Latin America's? Does rich harmony has a debt to pay to Gregorian chant? Does today's beatbox owe it's roots to the percussive and ancient language of the pygmy tribes? Music is a melting pot just as Rachmaninoff wrote in homage to Beethoven, just as the original blues drew on African mourning song,just as today's modern rock draws on the flamboyance and angst of Jimmy Hendrix . The more music you hear,the more your musical experience, the wider your influence. Music can be honest in whatever it borrows from, it's just a matter of the level of passion inherent within it's composition and performance. Look up The Latch-Miracle, this is white/black/Spanish. This is Rock/Pop/Classical. This is a new band from the British Indie movement. Either you like it or you don't. And music is just that simple. If you enjoy it then job done.Look up Guy Sebastian from Australia,Each song on his album is in a completely different genre,Does that mean he has no heart to his music?
Posts: 1 | Location: London UK | Registered: 22 October 2007
Since when have Africans or African Americans cornered the market on soul? One of the reasons I don't enjoy Sky Blue Sky is because it sounds souless to me, but if I break out Being There it's still dripping with soul. I think this writer is confusing 'soul' with something entirely different.
_____________________________ Weep to Water the Trees.
"This is my main concern with Obama; what if he has been groomed since childhood to blend in with the zionists and infidels? What if he has been led along by a radical islamic terrorist organization and positioned to become an influential politician?
What if Obama gets into White House and turns out to be some crazy muslim terrorist? What do we do then? We'll be pretty screwed. It could happen." -- by some fucking nutjob
Posts: 1996 | Location: The Noog, TN | Registered: 08 April 2007
Originally posted by Missy: It really sickens me when I see debates like this. You could easily say rhythmic content has it's roots in African music, heartfelt blues has it's roots also from black/African culture but then would you say that melodic content is solely rooted in classical music ala predominantly white/European culture? Is syncopated rhythm purely from Latin America's? Does rich harmony has a debt to pay to Gregorian chant? Does today's beatbox owe it's roots to the percussive and ancient language of the pygmy tribes? Music is a melting pot just as Rachmaninoff wrote in homage to Beethoven, just as the original blues drew on African mourning song,just as today's modern rock draws on the flamboyance and angst of Jimmy Hendrix . The more music you hear,the more your musical experience, the wider your influence. Music can be honest in whatever it borrows from, it's just a matter of the level of passion inherent within it's composition and performance. Look up The Latch-Miracle, this is white/black/Spanish. This is Rock/Pop/Classical. This is a new band from the British Indie movement. Either you like it or you don't. And music is just that simple. If you enjoy it then job done.Look up Guy Sebastian from Australia,Each song on his album is in a completely different genre,Does that mean he has no heart to his music?
Wonderful first post, Missy. Welcome, and I hope you post a lot more here because we can always use passion, especially passion from a different perspective.
"Naked Woman, Naked Man Where did you get that nice sun tan?"
Posts: 12885 | Location: Behind the Orange Curtain | Registered: 14 May 2004
I don't think that at this point in this age of instant communication and endless cultural diffusion one should even be able to draw such clear cut lines defining what influenced any given band. And to be completely honest I think that attempting to make a broad sweeping statement about any so-called 'genre' of music is simply ignorant. Does anyone really know where the line between alternative and indie is any more? I believe that the answer is no because these are just loosely defined descriptions which are only there so that people know what to say when someone asks "So what kind of music do you listen to?"
Originally posted by Missy: It really sickens me when I see debates like this. You could easily say rhythmic content has it's roots in African music, heartfelt blues has it's roots also from black/African culture but then would you say that melodic content is solely rooted in classical music ala predominantly white/European culture? Is syncopated rhythm purely from Latin America's? Does rich harmony has a debt to pay to Gregorian chant? Does today's beatbox owe it's roots to the percussive and ancient language of the pygmy tribes? Music is a melting pot just as Rachmaninoff wrote in homage to Beethoven, just as the original blues drew on African mourning song,just as today's modern rock draws on the flamboyance and angst of Jimmy Hendrix . The more music you hear,the more your musical experience, the wider your influence. Music can be honest in whatever it borrows from, it's just a matter of the level of passion inherent within it's composition and performance. Look up The Latch-Miracle, this is white/black/Spanish. This is Rock/Pop/Classical. This is a new band from the British Indie movement. Either you like it or you don't. And music is just that simple. If you enjoy it then job done.Look up Guy Sebastian from Australia,Each song on his album is in a completely different genre,Does that mean he has no heart to his music?
Interesting post. You say that no one style can be attributed completely to a certain culture, which, to be honest, is true and a breath of well-articulated fresh air. However, I think the article is saying that indie music isn't influenced heavily by music, which was epitomised by many past African-American artists. I really don't believe he is suggesting that any style of music has strict parameters.
Also I think its great to see debates like this, it provokes thought and allows people to exchanged opinions and form new ones. And, ultimately, that’s what human growth (including music) is about, I think.
Xo
Posts: 20 | Location: Perth | Registered: 22 October 2007
