My roommate won't stop blasting this garbage all day. I can get over the tuneless vocals. I can try desperately to ignore the classic-rock retread and ridiculously bad solos. But those lyrics! We worship lyricists who have a library card apparently. My 15 year old sister's boyfriend quotes "On The Road." Some random music blogger put it best:

Donny Osmond + Jet= The Hold Steady

I'll just shut my ears and scream for another Silver Jews record. And whoever said Flinn is up there with Bob Dylan, please stop spending your days in the hyperbolic phrase chamber (DBZ geek reference).

So between the lead actor of Goin' Coconuts and the latest garage import from Oz, which one reads Kerouac and lives the life they sing?

Definitely Osmond. That guy's a total badass. He's more than just a little bit rock n' roll, mark.

quote:

Originally posted by CouldBAnyone:
My roommate won't stop blasting this garbage all day. I can get over the tuneless vocals. I can try desperately to ignore the classic-rock retread and ridiculously bad solos. But those lyrics! We worship lyricists who have a library card apparently. My 15 year old sister's boyfriend quotes "On The Road." Some random music blogger put it best:

Donny Osmond + Jet= The Hold Steady

I'll just shut my ears and scream for another Silver Jews record. And whoever said Flinn is up there with Bob Dylan, please stop spending your days in the hyperbolic phrase chamber (DBZ geek reference).

Um dude, that is perhaps the most ignorant shit I have ever read.

quote:

And whoever said Flinn is up there with Bob Dylan, please stop spending your days in the hyperbolic phrase chamber (DBZ geek reference).

I do agree that comparing him to Dylan might be a stretch, but many, many people consider Dylan the best modern lyricist. In that case, no one compares to Dylan. However, I'm hard pressed to think of an artist currently writing music that I think is a better lyricist than Craig Finn. It's been said a thousand times, but Finn's lyrics really do not strike the right note with the listener until you're a certain age. At 24 I'm really not even old enough yet to fully relate. When you hit your mid-twenties (if you haven't already) I would suggest that you give Finn another shot. Again when you're 30, and every five years until you've met people like his characters or done the things he sings about.

quote:

My 15 year old sister's boyfriend quotes "On The Road."

That doesn't keep it from being a very good book. You clearly have some respect for Bob Dylan, but did you know that he probably would not exist without On The Road? If you haven't read it, and I'm guessing you haven't, you should before you make comments concerning it.

quote:

Originally posted by less_success:
I do agree that comparing him to Dylan might be a stretch, but many, many people consider Dylan the best modern lyricist. In that case, no one compares to Dylan. However, I'm hard pressed to think of an artist currently writing music that I think is a better lyricist than Craig Finn. It's been said a thousand times, but Finn's lyrics really do not strike the right note with the listener until you're a certain age. At 24 I'm really not even old enough yet to fully relate. When you hit your mid-twenties (if you haven't already) I would suggest that you give Finn another shot. Again when you're 30, and every five years until you've met people like his characters or done the things he sings about.

Ok, so now the only thing that really "unlocks" the genius is elapsed time? Do I need to drink more? My problem is that Finn's lyrics are not so much poetry in motion as a collection of elementary quips delivered at maximum volume. Like the staggering washed up drunk that screams for his voice to be heard, Finn beats one over the head verbally and orally. I'm not receptive to that kind of delivery. The far more calculated, artistic delivery of David Berman, or Smog's Bill Calahan speaks to me at a distinctly poetic, expressive level. If the hoarse rantings of Flinn do that for you, well then I guess we have a clear-cut difference of opinion.

And if I were to arbitrarily slap a "get-it" age on every artist like you have done, then I would argue David Berman's lyrics are written with the same conscious emphasis on lived experience as you say Flinn does, and to fully appreciate his lyrics I need to walk through life a little longer. However, Berman conveys his messages with nuance. Can I understand the drug-fueled bar-room rants of Flinn? Maybe I can't. But that doesn't mean I would want to in the future.

And no, I haven't read "On The Road." I can't say I'm an expert on the Beats. What I meant by my previous statement is that simply tossing off references to literary figures is often eaten up by people as "inspired." Why do you think so many people like the tired sounds of James Murphy? Because he references (only in passing) all of the hipster canon at once. You get to feel better about yourself by playing "look-how-many-references-I-can-spot" and James can pretend he's not too old for this shit.

quote:

Originally posted by less_success:
It's been said a thousand times, but Finn's lyrics really do not strike the right note with the listener until you're a certain age. At 24 I'm really not even old enough yet to fully relate. When you hit your mid-twenties (if you haven't already) I would suggest that you give Finn another shot. Again when you're 30, and every five years until you've met people like his characters or done the things he sings about.

And the age limit to relate to the Hold Steady is only going to be decreasing, in my opinion. I've seen a few of the more 'mature' middle school girls getting shit-faced at some parties I've been to this year and last.

quote:

Why do you think so many people like the tired sounds of James Murphy? Because he references (only in passing) all of the hipster canon at once. You get to feel better about yourself by playing "look-how-many-references-I-can-spot" and James can pretend he's not too old for this shit.

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not start insulting James Murphy AND Craig Finn. Murphy is one of the most impressive producers I have ever heard, his songs are insanely danceable, his lyrics are simultaneously hilarious, biting and perfectly suited to the music, and he is an integral part of one of the best music labels currently in operation, the DFA.

In short, I'm glad James isn't too old for this shit.

I'm glad you have an opinion about it, CBA. I'm not saying you're wrong be any means - Craig Finn is not for everyone. I was only suggesting that a little bit of age probably does help to relate to him a bit. With lines like "Lord to be 33 forever", it's pretty tough to feel connected when you're young.

Another important thing to note is that while Boys & Girls in America does tend to focus a lot on partying, drinking, and drugs, the band's first two albums do not do it quite to the same degree (although still quite a bit.)

I've probably said a few times in these forums that Craig Finn is the best lyricist in rock right now, and I stand by that.

The fact that he quoted Kerouac in the opening line to "Stuck Between Stations" has nothing to do with the reason I think he's a good lyricist, and I'm willing to bet that's the case for most of the folks who've posted in this thread.

For me, I enjoy the way he reuses characters, places, and events throughout his albums. Rarely do you see a lyricist referencing something that happened in another song on another album. As opposed to the typical use of song lyrics as a confessional, Finn uses them as a venue to tell stories. While on the surface the songs are about partying, drinking, and drugs, I also think Craig Finn has a knack for finding beauty, pain, humor and sadness in these otherwise mundane events.

Anyway, whether you connect with the lyrics or not, I think they stand out from the forgettable lyrics in 95% of rock. Lord knows what those guys in Animal Collective are singing about.

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Lord knows what those guys in Animal Collective are singing about.

But Lord knows it's immensely beautiful :-)

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Originally posted by in limbo:

quote:

Lord knows what those guys in Animal Collective are singing about.

But Lord knows it's immensely beautiful :-)

If you say so.

I understand that my tastes are different. Just wanted to contribute an opposing viewpoint.

And yes, I love AC's lyrics (a pleasant passtime of mine last year was to listen to all of their albums and create lyric sheets). Yes I know, I'm a hopelessly nerdy music listener...

I can't say that i like Craig Finn's music, many people here already know that. I just wanted to note what an incredibly good discussion this is. Everyone here is really making some strong, valid points and even when people think the exact opposite, whatever their point is, they argue it very effectively. Not that it matters but I think everyone here did a great job!

And just to make a comment on the discussion. Hey, I enjoy a little ribbing now and then, eric knows that I always pick on him about this band. But if you like them and the way the lead singer sings and writes then more power to you and good for you. I particularly can't stand it and of modern rock lyricists, last time I checked Tom Waits is still making music, so I will take him, if not, then I will glady take Colin Meloy any day over Craig Finn. That's just my opinion, if you love THS then that's great for you.

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And yes, I love AC's lyrics

Really? I've always thought their lyrics made no sense at all. I mean, they sometimes make sense, but where the hell does "kill me, rape me, hang the babies at the hospital" come from in Did You See the Words? Not saying they're bad necessarily, but they seem pretty abritrary and really take a back seat to the music.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: less_success,

I'll present this thread with two options and let the people decide.

She's got a cross around her neck that she ripped off from a schoolgirl in the subway on a visit to the city. She likes how it looks on her chest with three open buttons. She likes the part where one brother kills the other. She has to wonder if the the world ever will recover. Because Cain and Abel seem to still be causing trouble.

or

Oh, Spanish babies all the echoes.
Heard she’s getting better stay out of the train.
Let you wipe your feet off.
Eat it like it’s gonna get away.
Your coffee sure is getting colder
Your teeth are getting fewer spaces in the way.
You could win a rabbit.
You could build a rabbit with a rib.
Rabbit or habit, habit or real.
Rabbit or habit, habit or real.
Rabbit or habit.
Dododododo!

Haha QUITE the contrast. But I'd take both.

I don't mean to derail this into a debate over whether Animal Collective write meaningful lyrics but there really is no point comparing these two artists (musically or lyrically). Why?

Animal Collective embody a free-associative childlike (insightful in its innocence and freedom from convention) persona for many of their songs. Even the "relationship" record Feels beautifully articulates the wonder of love. The album is called Feels for a reason...Elsewhere they break down traditional language rules in favor of language play (occasionally this results in pure abstraction, such as "Who Could Win A Rabbit" or "Turn Into Something"). I can't say I've got a handle on all of their song meanings myself.

The Hold Steady are much more concrete, referential and pedestrian in tone. The songs deal mostly with recurring symbolic characters, and the common ground between religion and drugs to inspire and escape. These are relatively straight-forward in my own estimation.

quote:

Originally posted by CouldBAnyone:
I can't say I've got a handle on all of their song meanings myself.

Because they don't mean a goddamn thing. I could pick up a magnetic poetry set and write more poignant lyrics.

I stopped thinking meaningless, abstract lyrics were cool shortly after I graduated from high school.

Wow, such animosity. Get the pun?

All joking aside, Animal Collective is an incredible band, their lyrics are perfect for the music...people need to pay more attention to the SOUNDS that the words make in AC's songs, they flow off the tongue, overlapping with the gorgeous melodies to be found throughout any of their albums...it's quite the experience, at least for me, I find their lyrics work in such awesome cohesion with the music, it lets your mind wander and actually think about what they are singing. If they were trying to ram a concept down my throat over such ethereal melodies, it would defeat the purpose.

That was somewhat of an unstructured rant, apologies.