I'm an experimental musician if you want something 'different'. Send me a PM if you want some links. (alternately just type 'Duncan Black guitar' into google).

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Originally posted by mark f:
I have to admit that song is pretty cool, but I'm not sure how anybody could release an entire album in a similar vein. Even so, thanks for sharing, RL.

Yeah, I sort of wonder how they go about writing a whole album's worth of songs like that too. I mean, most songs I can sort of imagine the process that went into creating it, but with the type of music Efterklang do, I just can't imagine the creation process.

thanks for sharing that link. i generally enjoy "Tripper" although it gets a little bland in spots. as a producer, i can see how they made this, and i'm still very impressed with the results. the overlapping guitar lines weave in a very unique but listenable way.

also, i just saw deerhunter live last night. i'm not sure what their album sounds like yet (although i am about to check it out), but i can say they put on a really cool (and loud) drone-y shoegaze type show, while remaining every bit a rock band. definitely worth checking out.

I saw somewhere that Iran is releasing a new cd this year, but I can't seem to find anything about it. Does anyone have any information about this?

Id call Black Dice pretentious crap. You can trace all of this stuff back pretty far really. The No Wave scene was similar in that it was a no talent required form. Arto Lindsay didnt even know chords back then. Shouldnt a guy like that be prevented from walking on stage with a guitar? Not really in my opinion 'cause thats his way of expressing himself but I certainly don't want to hear it.

quote:

Originally posted by Moon Pix:
Id call Black Dice pretentious crap. You can trace all of this stuff back pretty far really. The No Wave scene was similar in that it was a no talent required form. Arto Lindsay didnt even know chords back then. Shouldnt a guy like that be prevented from walking on stage with a guitar? Not really in my opinion 'cause thats his way of expressing himself but I certainly don't want to hear it.

Ouch. I enjoy all of BD's records, despite their turn away from the long, psychedelic builds of "Beaches And Canyons." Hell, "Broken Ear Record" has a couple songs on it that could almost be traditional indie rock were it not for some off-kilter sonics and lack of traditional vocals (see "Motorcycle"). Give them a closer listen. The Black Dice stand out for a reason in a sea of computer-assisted DIY clones. They surprise me, and that is why I love them.

I'm not normally an "avant-garde" type of guy, I mean Sonic Youth,Boards of Canada( if they even are considered it), Animal Collective, and Lightning Bolt are about as far as I go usually but I just heard Tim Hecker's stuff and I'm literally blown away. I mean his new one Harmony in Ultraviolet is the best shoegaze-y album I've ever heard without it being quite shoegaze. Mirages, Haunt Me, Haunt Me Do it Again, and Radio Armor are great too. I think I'm going back for another listen.

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Id call Black Dice pretentious crap. You can trace all of this stuff back pretty far really. The No Wave scene was similar in that it was a no talent required form. Arto Lindsay didnt even know chords back then. Shouldnt a guy like that be prevented from walking on stage with a guitar? Not really in my opinion 'cause thats his way of expressing himself but I certainly don't want to hear it

Hmmm. I definitely wouldn't call Black Dice pretentious crap. At least they came from a punk/hardcore/diy background where they toiled away in obscurity for the second half of the 90's before transforming into the beautiful psychedelic noise monster they are now. You want to talk pretentious, how about a 30 something year old woman acting like a child, ripping off Beth Orton, and faking stage fright to get attention. Chan Marshall is a person who makes unengaging, sonically uninteresting music. It might be some of the most ignorable music ever. Why even bother posting in this thread when all you seemingly want to do is start some flame war between board members? I wouldn't have gone out of my way to slander Chan Marshall, but your attacking of the no-wave scene, Arto Lindsay, and Black Dice is uncredited, poorly thought out, and most importantly unprovoked. No-wave isn't supposed to be about musical "talent." We are talking about a purposeful movement away from "rock guitar" cliches. In order to do so, sometimes it is necessary to throw out the rules and start from scratch. Sorry if that doesn't meet your definition of "talent," a word that is just about as subjective as musical taste itself. Sonic Youth came from that scene as well. The majority of guitar sounds found in the trick bag of modern indie rock developed from things these players did first.

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You want to talk pretentious, how about a 30 something year old woman acting like a child, ripping off Beth Orton, and faking stage fright to get attention. Chan Marshall is a person who makes unengaging, sonically uninteresting music.

If thats the way you want to interpret what she's doing then thats up to you.

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Why even bother posting in this thread when all you seemingly want to do is start some flame war between board members?

Whoever said thats what Im trying to do? So Im supposed to show up and not respond in threads if I don't happen to like a band? The original post states "I was interested in what some of your general impressions were. If you have noticed. If you think it is a faddish hipster pretension."

Personally I don't really think it is and as I said in my original post Arto Lindsay shouldnt be banned from the stage just because he can't play the guitar very well. What I said was that its not to my taste. If the guy is happy just using fret muting on every song he does then thats his expression.

However I will say that in my opinion innovation and originality is often used as an excuse by musicians to pass off bad, unlistenable music. Sonic Youth did come from that scene as you said but as time went on their music became more comprehensible and less wild (personally Im a big fan of Confusion Is Sex and Kill yr. Idols though.) The material became more structured and accessible. Aside from Sonic Youth, the No Wave scene was largely unimportant and uninfluential. It was a very brief period in the hisory of New York that had little influence on the music that came after.

I wasnt attacking the No Wave scene or Arto Linday. If you watch the film Kill yr. Idols one of the interviewees (Jim Scalavunos I think) even says that it wasnt about music or talent. Thats what I was referring to when I called No Wave a "talent not necessary music." Black Dice are featured in that film as being the continuation of that No Wave tradition and it features a few seconds of their music which to me was incomprehensible and unlistenable. I don't begrudge anyone who likes that stuff or anybody who wants to make it but to me it just seems to be an exercise in using music as confrontation and little more. If thats the point of it then Im sorry but to me confrontation and attitude just isnt enough to carry a piece of music.

Im more a fan of song writing personally.

I certainly wouldn't call the Sonic Youth the only important group/arist to emerge from the no-wave scene. What about Glenn Branca, Rhys Chatham, Mars, DNA, Teenage Jesus. You can discount the importance of that music all you want, but the fact remains that there is an entire community of musicians that were highly influenced by that movement. I wouldn't call that inconsequential. Rhys Chatham is even featured in the newest issue of The Wire. As recent as 2005 he was commissioned by the city of Paris to write a piece for 400 electric guitars. If there was only confrontation and no worth otherwise in that music there wouldn't be anyone still listening to Branca's The Acension over 20 years later, or the No New York compilation that Brian Eno put together.

In response to your statement about commenting on the first post. It seems pretty obvious that we are in the middle of the 14th page here and if you were commenting on that opening request you might've wanted to repost it so there was no confusion.

Again, you can decry artists doing original or innovative things as an excuse for making "bad music" but the same can be said for songwriters who make the same record again and again and don't ever attempt to supplement their craft with anything except their plaintive mewling. Yawn.

Moon Pix, you're in a retaded, useless battle right now. I have no idea what your intentions are but a blind reply to my first post on this thread from last year is kind of, well, stupid in my opinion. If you are going to post then post smart. There is really no point to your post without a reference and if you have read the past dozen pages or so you might have noticed that we are well beyond the subject matter of the first question.

If you are interested or want to start a discussion address someone, reference something, anyone here would be happy to oblige you. Just carry some tact with your post.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sicnarf,

On another note - Thanks Moon Pix for bringing this topic back to the top of the page. I need some good, new Avant Garde recommendations and some more opinions on Avey Tare and Kria Brekkan's (sp) album that has been getting mauled by everyone who reviews it.

I plan on getting it regardless but was just wondering what anyones opinions were on this board.

The Tare/Brekkan record sounds much better played forward I think. Regardless it is an interesting listen even if it wears thin quickly because of the ridiculous concept. That's my two cents.

Have you had the entire album reversed or is the reversed version floating around?

oh, and I might have some CDRs to send you if you are still doing that column at DOA.

quote:

Again, you can decry artists doing original or innovative things as an excuse for making "bad music" but the same can be said for songwriters who make the same record again and again and don't ever attempt to supplement their craft with anything except their plaintive mewling. Yawn.

Regarding that point I like what Lou Reed said about it. He was talking about how people say that all of his records sound the same and he said that in the days before rock n' roll when blues music was really popular people didnt acuse Muddy Waters of repeating himself because he did more than one song that sounded similar.

If somebody never changes their style I generally don't care as long as I like what Im hearing.

quote:

Originally posted by Moon Pix:
The No Wave scene was similar in that it was a no talent required form. Arto Lindsay didnt even know chords back then. Shouldnt a guy like that be prevented from walking on stage with a guitar? Not really in my opinion 'cause thats his way of expressing himself but I certainly don't want to hear it.

There's a big step between "It's fine, I just don't want to hear it" and "This guy should be kept off stage."

That would be really sad if anyone was deemed 'unfit' to play. You say no-talent, but at the same time no chords means no progressions means no tonality means a different set of rules.

If you think about the history of western music this same thing happened about the turn of the century. Composers got sick of writing old tired chords - they wanted something new. And a bunch of conservative musickers called them pretentious ass clowns, like you did. They even rioted on occasion - like during the premier of Stravinsky's Sacre du Printemps (sp?).

But Arto Lindsay never played the way he did simply because he wasn't 'able' to play chords or do it the 'right' way. He did what he did because that what he WANTED to do. If you don't like it that's your right, but that stuff about preventing him from playing is 1984 big brother B.S.

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But Arto Lindsay never played the way he did simply because he wasn't 'able' to play chords or do it the 'right' way. He did what he did because that what he WANTED to do. If you don't like it that's your right, but that stuff about preventing him from playing is 1984 big brother B.S.

If you'd read it more carefully you would have noticed that I said "shouldnt a guy like that be prevented from walking on stage with a guitar? Not really in my opinion 'cause thats his way of expressing himself but I certainly don't want to hear it."

You still sound like you think you're doing him a favor by not trying to shut him out.

Your impressions are duly noted.

quote:

If somebody never changes their style I generally don't care as long as I like what Im hearing.

If everyone felt that way though, music in general would be dispiccably boring. Every once in a while you've got to shake things up, make it more interesting.