This is another discussion I started on another thread.

I've seen a lot of mention of "Ys" on both critics' and forum users' top 10 lists. But, the album seems like such a hard concept to get into. She plays the harp. Her voice wobbles like one of those bird callers you used to get as a child. And, I've heard her lyrics are cryptic and inpenetrable. It seems like something you really need to put alot of effort into to gain an appreciation for. But, I get the sense that it's easier to admire it than to like it.

So, I ask both Newsom admirers and detractors - is it really worth my effort (and my $9.99 on iTunes)?

quote:

Originally posted by Troy:
This is another discussion I started on another thread.

I've seen a lot of mention of "Ys" on both critics' and forum users' top 10 lists. But, the album seems like such a hard concept to get into. She plays the harp. Her voice wobbles like one of those bird callers you used to get as a child. And, I've heard her lyrics are cryptic and inpenetrable. It seems like something you really need to put alot of effort into to gain an appreciation for. But, I get the sense that it's easier to admire it than to like it.

So, I ask both Newsom admirers and detractors - is it really worth my effort (and my $9.99 on iTunes)?

I would say no. And that is a really honest no. I have tried to like the album, and although I don't dislike it too much now, it is just too much work. If you do not like it at first listen, skip it.

Troy, that's a difficult question to answer, because we don't know how much effort you're prepared to expend on attempting to get into it.

How many "chances" do you normally give an album? How different is Ys from what you normally listen to?

I liked "Emily" when I first heard it (I downloaded it as a sampler form eMusic), then downloaded the rest and hated it.

Since then, I've persevered, and am warming to it. I've listened to it 4 times in its entirety and her voice is no longer an irritant, I'm digging the harp, and enjoying the lyrics (how can you go wrong with words like "spelunking" and "incohate"?). The most annoying thing for me is Van Dyke Parks' string arrangements. I've always considered Parks to be over-hyped. But I'm learning to ignore them.

Just to put my perseverance into perspective, I initially loathed Exile On Main Street and Grace - They're now two of my favourites.

Is it worth the effort? For you, I dunno. For me, it is.

One suggestion - if money's tight, why not join eMusic for a trial period (you get 25 free downloads and Ys'll only cost you 5) and then pull out before it costs you anything?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hugh Jackman's Torso,

yes, its worth every effort. I don't find it all that difficult but I generally listen to a lot of music that could be called such. The pieces can be appreciated better if you take it in like a classical piece of music. I don't really know what all the fuss is about. Anyway, it was my number one album of the year.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sicnarf,

quote:

Originally posted by Troy:
This is another discussion I started on another thread.

I've seen a lot of mention of "Ys" on both critics' and forum users' top 10 lists. But, the album seems like such a hard concept to get into. She plays the harp. Her voice wobbles like one of those bird callers you used to get as a child. And, I've heard her lyrics are cryptic and inpenetrable. It seems like something you really need to put alot of effort into to gain an appreciation for. But, I get the sense that it's easier to admire it than to like it.

So, I ask both Newsom admirers and detractors - is it really worth my effort (and my $9.99 on iTunes)?

If you are totally new to Joanna Newsom I'd suggest trying her previous (2004?) album The Milk-Eyed Mender before Y's it has something closer to traditional pop structures compared to Y's and the songs are far more accessible on first listen, in fact one, The Sprout and the Bean is being used to advertise tourism to my new home town Melbourne.

It generally takes me three or four listens before I really start to appreciate an album. Sometimes, I will listen to an album once, put it down for a while, but pick it up again in a month or so and get a new perspective on it. But, sometimes I have to suspend some predilictions in order to get into an album.

Case in point - Sufjan Stevens' Illinois (or, "Illinoise", just so I'm not seen as taking sides in a heated discussion I saw on another thread). I purchased the album without ever hearing any of it because of all the buzz. The first couple of times I listened to it, it didn't grab me. I think part of my problem is that I had to suspend some preconditions to truly appreciate the album. It was quite different from what I'm used to listening to. But, one night, I was sitting at home doing some work on my computer. I put on Illinois/Illinoise out of pure obligation because, after all, I spent my $9.99 at iTunes. And it grabbed me. These were innovative and catchy tunes. But, it took me a few listens to really get it.

Another example is "Z". My first few listens, it bugged me. I loved the musicmanship, but I could not get back the cracky falseto singing voice. So, I put it down, never to be listened to again. But, on a whim, I picked up Okonokos this year. If you haven't listened to Okonokos, it is a live album that contains about 80% of the songs from "Z" on it. I must say, the voice is even harder to get past on Okonokos, because it's off key in several places. But, I love Okonokos. I had to really suspend my instant dislike of the singing voice to appreciate My Morning Jacket.

I think I'll give it a try. After all, it is only $9.99. I'll report back to you all later. Thanks for the input.

P.S. - it's "Illinoise" on my iPod.

quote:

Originally posted by Troy:
Case in point - Sufjan Stevens' Illinois (or, "Illinoise", just so I'm not seen as taking sides in a heated discussion I saw on another thread). P.S. - it's "Illinoise" on my iPod.

It wasn't heated at all. Although you should change the name on your IPod to the correct one, Illinois--without an E at the end.

quote:

Originally posted by Troy:
I think I'll give it a try. After all, it is only $9.99. I'll report back to you all later. Thanks for the input.

I think you will like it. If you put that much effort into albums that you actually pay for and re-listen to it often to see if it "grabs" you, then I am confident enough to say that you will like Ys. In my opinion, it does take some listens but it is very rewarding in the end.

its love it or hate it... a lot of people love it (people who see pitchfork as god)... a lot of people hate it (people who think that music doesn't have to be revolutionary to be good)

I personally hate it and don't see what the fuss is about at all, but if you didnt like the 30second previews on itunes... i'd bet you won't like the rest.

quote:

a lot of people love it (people who see pitchfork as god)... a lot of people hate it (people who think that music doesn't have to be revolutionary to be good)

I wouldn't say that at all. In fact I was extremely weary of it at first because Pitchforkmedia gave it such a high score. As a person that totally despised Joanna Newsom until I heard Ys (and even a little bit even after I initially heard it) I wouldn't completely write her off. If you're a fan of inventive songwriting and even more interesting song structure, Ys can be very rewarding. Music can be revolutionary and good and revolutionary and bad. It can just as easily be completely uninventive and bad, a double strike in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by Ek CrIsp:
but if you didnt like the 30second previews on itunes... i'd bet you won't like the rest.

Hah, this is the most hilarious remark. To weigh 9+ minute songs on 30 second is a definitive way to review "revolutionary" music. I actually think the album takes some serious nods to a much older musical style rather than new ones. Anyway, good one Ek, good one.

Update: I downloaded the album this morning and have listened to it once. The 30 second iTunes snippets did not do it justice. It was much more accessable than I was led to believe by the few people who have bashed it on the boards. Even her voice didn't annoy me (let's face it, for many indie acts (and some more mainstream), you have to get past annoying vocals (My Morning Jacket, The Hold Steady, Band of Horses, even Radiohead - I know I'm going to hear it for that one). The unusual vocals just become part of what makes the music different and enjoyable.

In fact, I found the first listen quite enjoyable. I'm not ready to call it a masterpiece yet, but it was not the difficult listen that I expected.

quote:

Originally posted by Sicnarf:

Hah, this is the most hilarious remark. To weigh 9+ minute songs on 30 second is a definitive way to review "revolutionary" music. I actually think the album takes some serious nods to a much older musical style rather than new ones. Anyway, good one Ek, good one.

Whatever, music is subjective... some people (hopefully not you guys) think i'm crazy for loving radiohead (mostly my jam band friends who think if a chord progression has more than 3 chords and goes on for less than 8 minutes it's too complex)... i think people that love Joanna Newsome are crazy. I downloaded it after it had gotten such good press and was looking forward to it... after a bit it sounded... simply put, bad. I didn't like the vocals, i didn't like the arrangements, the lyrics, the songwriting, it seemed like the same tempo, monotnous... The only thing that really justified it was that it was no doubt unique, something that hadn't been done before... but i don't like it because of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Troy:
you have to get past annoying vocals (My Morning Jacket, The Hold Steady, Band of Horses, even Radiohead - I know I'm going to hear it for that one).

You went too far my little friend. I will give you THS and BoH but MMJ and Radiohead? No way. Thom Yorke has arguably the best voice in all of music today and although Jim James' voice isn't superb, it surely isn't annoying. But it is ok, I won't give you too much grief--you are entitled to your own opinion. Keep me updated on how Ys goes for you.

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:

...and although Jim James' voice isn't superb

On the contrary, I think Jim James has one of the finest voices in rock music today, especially on Z. His performance on "Gideon" is no doubt impressive.

I do agree about Thom Yorke. I never found his voice annoying at all. I also never found Craig Finn's voice annoying either. I just thought he sounded like he belonged in a bar band, like Scott Weiland or early Art Alexakis.

Now Joanna Newsom, Ben Bridwell, Paul Banks, Spencer Krug, Mike Skinner...those are all applicable in my opinion. Each one took me a little time to adjust to.

This album I'd say is completely hit or miss. I went into it knowing that, I went into it knowing that I thought her previous work was terrible, but I went into it with a completely open mind. My first thought was "Wow, this is kinda weird", second thought "wow, this is really cool". I love the string arrangements, the lyrics tell some amazing stories (adaptations/interpretations). It's a concept album.

I'd suggest d/l'ing it w/ a torrent or borrowing it from a friend first. That's what I did, but in the end I wound up buying it.

quote:

Originally posted by less_success:

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:

...and although Jim James' voice isn't superb

On the contrary, I think Jim James has one of the finest voices in rock music today, especially on Z. His performance on "Gideon" is no doubt impressive.

I knew I was going to catch crap for that comment.

Jim James' voice is an aquired taste. I like it now, but at first listen it can sound like the slow death of a cat. The other problem is his voice on studio recordings is always tweaked with reverb. But, come on, he is frequently off-key on Okonokos. So, I would not call him a great vocalist. But, his voice is distinctive, and its what makes MMJ distinctive.

Same thing with Thom York. He is not a strong vocalist. His voice tends to crack and warbble in the high end. It suits his music well. It gives it more expression. But, at least for me, it took some getting used to.

This is not a knock on either band. I love both. But I didn't on first listen.

By the way - I've been through Ys two and a half times now. The real test is when I can crank an album up in my car. I am impressed, but I haven't fallen in love with it yet. Although the orchestration is pretty, it might take me a few listens to actually discern it enough to hum along. That's the way it goes for me. First, I try to get the melody etched into my head, and then I can listen to the lyrics.

quote:

Originally posted by PRG:

Touche, amigo, touche. There are many threads around here you couldn't stick that into!...

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
Thom Yorke has arguably the best voice in all of music today and although Jim James' voice isn't superb, it surely isn't annoying.

Wow, I would switch those two artists around, for sure. I get what TROY is saying that they don't always hit the perfect notes. It's true, but yeah their emotions are right on. Sometimes I think both Thom and Jim James can sing like angels...but in the higher end, they are flawed (ie not Mariah Carey).

In my awesome er, humble opinion, I think that Rufus Wainwright hits every single note he tries to hit. He does blend his words together, but the notes are 100% on target.

If you want one shining example, listen to Beautiful Child off of Want One.

Oh yeah....Ys is worth the effort. Sometimes though, I find the best option is just to let a "difficult" or "bad" album sit on a shelf for a while. Just like you said with Illinois. Once the hype and expectations have faded away, I find myself being a lot more open to the music.

I put It Still Moves, Gimme Fiction and In the Aeroplane Over the Sea on the shelves after deeming them "unworthy"...only to play them way down the road to find out they are really amazing albums. Now they are three of my all time faves.