There are Pressing Questions and Problems that make many fans of what I call "The True Music" perspire to no end. I have by no means figured most of this out, and I figure a little workshopping could help.

Do you engage the great cloud of dumbass witnesses?

Talking to most people about music is frustrating, because most people are stupid. This is made sadder because they don't realize it. If you need to explain to someone why the Misfits are not a good band, where do you start?

What does a person of indie WEAR?

I guess what I'm asking is what in God's name are we supposed to wear? Beards? Fuck beards.

What will the lifestyle do to our judgment?

Do you ever find yourself thinking the Wrong Thing and not even know how you initially became Wrong? Is there hope?

FOR GOD'S SAKE WHY

Do people still listen to old music? If you're not sick of all that shit yet, you didn't have a proper high school career. How do we convince them to turn it off?

After being forced into an argument in which you are required to speak on fifteen different bands you'd rather never have to even think about, is there a proper way to kill all of your friends?

These are not the only Tr00 Dilemmas. More are descending every day. Is anyone really ready for The Next Step?

Why do people listen to old music?

Because there's quite a lot of damn good old music.

I really like this post. I've been feeling depressed trying to find new music. All of a sudden, every single "new band" I've heard, I haven't liked. This is very bizarre for me since I've liked new bands for at least 42 years now. So, I've decided that my problem is that I don't like listening to or reading BS recommendatins of shit bands or that somehow "rock and roll music" has transformed even farther away from a form of rock which I care to listen to. I request the following from people who praise "post-rock"; can you please now call it "anti-rock"? That will make it easy for me to ignore everything I don't like. I'm sorry. If I don't like it, I won't pretend I do. I don't care if it's Captain Beefheart, Can, Faust, or several other dozen BS bands which you love now. I say, good for you, but don't expect me to try to invest more than the entire flippin' weeks I invested before. Why don't you explain to me why you don't love Happy the Man or the Feelies?

The End, Part I

I just want to know what makes it "BS" or these bands "shit bands". I'd rather listen to Beefheart, Can, Faust (none of these are post-rock, btw ) and probably every other one of the bands on your "pretentious anti-rock" list than most albums you've mentioned since I've been here.

What about this music (other than your age and you being partial to music that is straight-forward and safe) is such a turn-off?

I also like this thread and I agree with a lot of what Mark has said.

First, I found your beard comment to be entirely hilarious, Black. May I call you Black? I hope that's all right.

As for your "FOR GOD'S SAKE WHY Do people still listen to old music?" comment, there are several reasons I could offer. One being that some of us still have a lot to learn in terms of "old music." I have no idea how old you are but I am still young and have plenty to discover. I don't think I could ever have "my fill" and be satisfied. Luckily, I have plenty of time.

Now, all of this is tied in to Mark’s statement about new music. I’m not in the camp where I can't stomach new music but I completely agree with the "I don't like listening to or reading BS recommendations of shit bands" aspect. The sad side of it all is that many of these bands are not sh*t but suffer from over-hyped overload. I can deal with the media hype—that's their job—but I can't deal with someone talking about how their new album changes every other day.

I also can't stand the "OMG, the new one by Bozo and Larry has leaked, no release date and they are pissed it leaked but who cares! It's like, totally, so good. Of course, I have only heard three songs so far but this will be in my top five of the year and maybe top ten of the decade (wait, the decade isn't over?) for sure. OMG, it's so good" rampant comments. I am sure I can think of at least 20 people here who have done that in some shape or form.

I am staying on topic though as I feel all of these are "dilemmas in the Indie Rock Community." I just think that some of us like to listen to music at an agreeable pace. Just like you don't understand why I wait for release dates and why I buy music, I don't understand why you don't buy music. Now, mind you, I am still in college and I do work a full 40 hours every week so I can buy music but it’s feasible.

OK, so that's the end of my rant.

Now I'm not sure what's going on here but oh well.

I just don't understand why "rock" music transforming and moving further away from "rock" is a problem. Rock has always been transforming. Remember the Beatles or Velvet Underground? There are always going to be tons of more traditional bands at any given time anyway.

Also I don't understand why you listed those bands as "BS" bands. Even for someone who is more of a "rockist", Captain Beefheart is rooted pretty deeply in tradition, and really his stuff other than Trout Mask Replica isn't very weird at all.

But really I'm just confused, as to who exactly the "you" is in your post.

quote:

Originally posted by JGlass:
I just want to know what makes it "BS" or these bands "shit bands". I'd rather listen to Beefheart, Can, Faust (none of these are post-rock, btw ) and probably every other one of the bands on your "pretentious anti-rock" list than most albums you've mentioned since I've been here.

What about this music (other than your age and you being partial to music that is straight-forward and safe) is such a turn-off?

I think you missed a lot of his points. He can come on and state why he thinks they are BS and sh*t. And he wasn't saying that those bands are post-rock.

I can also vouch that it isn't his age that is the issue nor that he likes "safe" music. You're way off there because I don't remember Sunset Rubdown and Blitzen Trapper being safe!

Anyways, yeah, he can clarify the rest if he feels like it.

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
I just think that some of us like to listen to music at an agreeable pace.

I just think that you are a disagreeable person.

But more to the point, what the fuck does "an agreeable pace" entail? And who cares when you get the music as long as you get it? And what is the problem about raving about music that you like??? What is wrong with you people? This board is about finding and listening to music, because it brings joy! Did you ever stop to think that I download music as soon as it's available because I love it and want to hear it as soon as possible?

So shut up about the distribution and "hipster nature" of the music and just listen and recommend and spread the love instead of sucking each other off about how "old school" you are!

This shit makes me sick.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: L. R. William Spencer,

Well that was certainly exciting.

I can see where you are coming from though Frag. It is annoying at times the hysteria that goes on when people talk about music, especially the "indie" crowd. But to be honest, it doesn't matter. People enjoy listening to music, when they hear something like really like, they get excited. Of course the people that are of the "indie" crowd often don't have anyone to talk about that music with. So, they come on hear and spill their guts out. I understand it gets to be a bit to much, but damn, I'd much rather have someone be really excited about the music they love than to be apathetic about it.

And really, the whole mp3 versus cd debate is getting old. I still personally prefer to buy cd's whenever possible, but I also understand that times are changing. I just get tired of some people on here somehow acting like they are better people for buying cd's over downloading music. At least when they download music they are giving themselves a chance to hear it (which more than likely won't come if they have to pay for something before having heard it at all), and possibly tell other people about it (with a possible hysterical tone, I suppose), which I think everyone would agree is a good thing.

.I don't know why you have to get so ferocious and start foaming at the mouth. Someone went ahead and made a thread to discuss issues they feel are in the Indie community and I in turn said to myself, "Hey, cool, I have an opinion on the matter." I should be able to share my opinion just as much as you--especially when it is damn well relevant--when I please.

I will try to answer some of your questions as best I can. An agreeable pace would entail letting the album to soak in before you go nuts about it. I think that a lot of the reasons behind musician’s music is carefully thought out. There is a reason why certain bands send promos a week before release dates so that the critics can love it, as opposed to sending stuff weeks in advance so critics can have plenty of "growing" time. If you go back and read the forums from four, three years back people talked about music at a calm pace. Damn, the new Wolf Parade comes out on Tuesday and we have what? Over 120 posts about it already, that's alarming.

I don't know which of your other questions are serious but I can definitely state that I don't brag about how "old school" I feel. I just think it's best to listen to music calmly and wait for release dates.

quote:

Originally posted by FragileKidA:
I just think it's best to listen to music calmly and wait for release dates.

And I do not. Resolved.

My point was that you never even get to hear my point anymore. My badmouthing Can and Faust is not meant to turn anyone off from them at all; it's meant to make sure that people actually enjoy them. I'm glad you enjoy them! Now, let me tell you that they are a bunch of hobgobblin BS which don't even remotely deserve to be discussed with Goblin or Kraftwerk. Then again, I don't usually shit on your thoughts, so maybe I can express a few. Oops! I know that doesn't work, but that's why I'm temporarily posting now.

I'm basically trying to get a reaction here, so thanks for responding.

I still don't understand what you are saying. so far all you've done is list bands that I feel are quality (although throwing Goblin in there was surprising with the other names).

I would love to hear your point if you could just make what you are saying more clear. Break it down for us.

I'm watching this movie called Falling Down, it's like a semi-indie 90s movies about Michael Douglas going bananas. It was directed by Joel Schumacher

quote:

Originally posted by BlackGravel:
There are Pressing Questions and Problems that make many fans of what I call "The True Music" perspire to no end. I have by no means figured most of this out, and I figure a little workshopping could help.

Do you engage the great cloud of dumbass witnesses?

Talking to most people about music is frustrating, because most people are stupid. This is made sadder because they don't realize it. If you need to explain to someone why the Misfits are not a good band, where do you start?

What does a person of indie WEAR?

I guess what I'm asking is what in God's name are we supposed to wear? Beards? Fuck beards.

What will the lifestyle do to our judgment?

Do you ever find yourself thinking the Wrong Thing and not even know how you initially became Wrong? Is there hope?

FOR GOD'S SAKE WHY

Do people still listen to old music? If you're not sick of all that shit yet, you didn't have a proper high school career. How do we convince them to turn it off?

After being forced into an argument in which you are required to speak on fifteen different bands you'd rather never have to even think about, is there a proper way to kill all of your friends?

These are not the only Tr00 Dilemmas. More are descending every day. Is anyone really ready for The Next Step?

Why are you so concerned with converting people to your taste and lifestyle? I hope that post was a joke...you'll never make that Next Step if you really take yourself that seriously.

EDIT: Why do you seem to need everyone around you to conform to your ideals? If you actually succeeded, wouldn't the world be like the one described in that Iggy Pop song "Mass Production"? You know, from Idiot - the album that Ian Curtis was listening to when he killed himself?

And FKA, why do you care how people listen to music? Is that really any of your business?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: V,

Hm... Sunset Rubdown and Blitzen Trapper are pretty straight-forward and quite safe to address that point. They play straight-forward indie-rock in my opinion.

Now CAN-bashing should not be tolerated. People actually don't like CAN? You don't feel ashamed to express that opinion? You may be older and wiser, but i reckon you don't play any musical instruments to any great degree, because CAN is absolutely solid. Their influence is indisputable, and damn near everything that people drool over here takes cues from CAN (Radiohead? Anyone? Have you heard National Anthem?). Good god, that opinion just baffles me.

Why listen to old music? I don't understand how that's even a question. Seriously. Maybe it's because music wasn't always as spineless as today's crop of wimpy indie-rock. It's fun to look back on a time when the music I/we associate ourselves with hadn't been co-opted by big business in order to sell iPod's or steaks or Volkswagens and Ford trucks. Perhaps good music has existed for more than the last 10 years? I mean, not liking older music really takes a massive shit on my day... I'll take the Stooges over just about anything that's come out this decade. Sure, i can't relate to songs about Vietnam, but can you relate to a Blitzen Trapper song? They're a bunch of hippies that hijacked Freebird and turned it lo-fi so that indie kids can have their own version of Lynard Skynard without feeling like morons.

This bugs me.

Please excuse the tone of that little rant of mine, it just bugs me to dismiss older music.

I mean, the formula for most everything that blows up today in the indie world had been set in stone about 20 years ago.

Let's take an example: Vampire Weekend... no that's too easy; okay Sunset Rubdown:

Steal Joey Santiago's guitarwork (namely Vamos & anything from Doolittle) + Nick Cave's vocal aerobics from the Birthday Party - His complete awesomeness & hatred for the world + Devo's keyboard skills - the actual skill x Modest Mouse before people sang them on American Idol = Sunset Rubdown.

And Blitzen Trapper is even easier: Take Lynard Skynard - Musical Proficiency + a 4-track + Pavement's non-chalance - the fact that they actually didn't give a shit = Blitzen Trapper.

Those are pretty basic to me.

However, i do agree with the Indie "style" remarks...

Can is a sacred cow of the indie (makes me gag to type the word now) world. Just because Radiohead, among others, got something interesting out of listening to them does NOT mean that everybody else has to listen or give a crap.

I fucking love "Yoo Doo Right," most of Ege Bamyasi, Tago Mago, etc. But at the same time I think the guitar playing is sub-par most of the time. Additionally, many of the longer tracks veer dangerously into wankfest territory. The ideas they explore could easily be explored in a track half as long or less. But they have the cred, so if anyone dares call them out, somebody gets panties in a bunch. In most of the stuff I've read about them they seem to have awfully high opinions of themselves, as well. Which is damn near inexcusable in my book.

Anyway, so there's a counterpoint.

quote:

Originally posted by CleverName84:
Please excuse the tone of that little rant of mine, it just bugs me to dismiss older music.

I mean, the formula for most everything that blows up today in the indie world had been set in stone about 20 years ago.

Let's take an example: Vampire Weekend... no that's too easy; okay Sunset Rubdown:

Steal Joey Santiago's guitarwork (namely Vamos & anything from Doolittle) + Nick Cave's vocal aerobics from the Birthday Party - His complete awesomeness & hatred for the world + Devo's keyboard skills - the actual skill x Modest Mouse before people sang them on American Idol = Sunset Rubdown.

And Blitzen Trapper is even easier: Take Lynard Skynard - Musical Proficiency + a 4-track + Pavement's non-chalance - the fact that they actually didn't give a shit = Blitzen Trapper.

Those are pretty basic to me.

However, i do agree with the Indie "style" remarks...

People have been playing that musical equation game for years. It just seems like an excuse to crap on music, as I see it.

These formulas are NEVER set in stone - that's what happens when a tradition gets petrified (i.e. DIES). By virtue of the fact that people can still record whatever the imagination can muster, these formulas you speak of are hindrances rather than helpers. you're killing music.

quote:

Originally posted by V:
you're killing music.

Uhh... by trying to illustrate that those two bands in particular are safe? Look man, i don't know about you but, to my way to thinking, claiming that someone on a message board is killing music is a bit ridiculous. I was simply trying to point something out, not kill the artistic merits of either band. In fact, i like both bands and do realize that there's more too them. What i was trying to illustrate is that both bands can be traced back to source material which they took an influence from. Stating that art is inspired by other art is not killing music; rather, it just shows how many elements are put together in order to create new music.

Bands like Sunset Rubdown are often touted as highly original by those very same people that don't know the reference points. Looking backwards at music is the same as looking at history in how it shows its influence on present-day events. It's really not that hard to figure out, nor is it killing music as you put it.

And i didn't get my panties in a bunch about CAN, i just can't really understand someone blasting them because they are "anti-rock". That's the point of CAN. They invert rock tropes, flip music on its head, improvise and explore new terrains of music. And yeah, the indie world seems to like them, but perhaps they are a sacred cow because they're so damned good and not because someone else told me they are good. This is music, it can't be killed.