Wow! I missed that one. slippery is telling people to avoid Dear 23 by the Posies. Ha! BRMC and Wilco, too. *cough* Your flyswatter covers an enormous area with absolutely NO explanation. I certainly don't have any reason, at least from your in-depth discussion, to "trust" you.

I meant that there have been a lot of new people posting here recently, and a bunch of them just seem to have annoying attitudes and only talk about what they hate without giving legitimate reasons for it. And since I'm not smart enough to think of any witty comebacks, my first instinct it to verbally punch them in the head.

p.s. i believe i have just made the first post of june 23rd !!!!! I suppose that makes me a cooler person or something?!

the label at the top of your post says 9 pm on june 22nd but whatever you say

First off, I just made a list like everyone else has been doing. Just because I didn't write a detailed explanation for every inclusion or "band to avoid" doesn't mean I don't have one. Be patient, I'll give explanations.

To MarkF, the intention of this thread was to give advice to a person that is seeking to discover great music. It would be rude to go off on a 5-page tangent about why Radiohead is such an overrated band. (But don't worry, I'll start a thread on it really soon.)

To show how Radiohead is so overrated, it's much easier to expose people to albums that blow most of Radiohead's albums away. Since I can accomplish that AND this thread's purpose at once, that's what I'll do.

Also, I'll try to talk about bands barely mentioned on boards like these and by indie rock "experts." There are great bands metioned on these boards, but I won't bother talking about them when you can hear about them a million other places.

To Interplay,

First off, start with Swivel Stick's Notes Towards a Mental Breakdown.

This album ranges from prime Swans to Big Black fury to to late-'80's Sonic Youth soundscapes to early Husker Du to Band of Susans guitar air formation, topped off with segues of free jazz.

Listening to this makes me wonder if Thom Yorke had a copy of this album handy while working on OK Computer, a great album which comes off as mere child's play compared to this one.

Each song (not counting the interlude pieces) has between 2 and 5 innovative guitar parts that defeat the notion that all the good riffs have been used up long ago. In fact, many of the riffs are downright stunning.

Listen to this album and you'll see why I find Radiohead so overrated. It's not that Radiohead is horrible, it's that albums like this just blow them away.

The songs on the album were inspired by a series of 1963 interviews with psychiatric patients, and the drawings those patients made afterwards. The albums even came packaged with note cards about the patients.

After listening to this you'll be going to half.com and putting most of your Radiohead albums up for sale.

(You can contact the band and they will gladly send you a CD-R of this album for free. Just PM me. You won't be able to find an original anywhere, unfortunately.)

Next, you need to go to half.com and buy Plexi's Cheer Up for 75 cents. Plexi is one of the most underrated bands of all time. Cheer Up, their only full-length album, is a lost classic. And trust me, it's definitely worth the $3.44 (price including shipping).

This band has some of the best lyrics I've ever heard. Funny, bitter, existential, and romantic. Michael Barragan is one of the best guitarists ever. You'll find a uniqute blend of cock-rock with avant-garde textures and noise.

These guys could have been the next Nirvana. Unfortunately, drug addiction got the best of them.

Give me your e-mail address and I will gladly send you a few songs.

Since we are talking about albums that you can get cheap on half.com, I'll bring up Nudeswirl. Like Plexi, they only had one album. You can also get it (it's self-titled) for 75 cents.

The opening song is one of the best songs of the decade. It sets the tone for the rest of the album--driving rock with metal overtones and soaring, psychedelic guitar work. Think 80's Dinosaur Jr. with Jimmy Page guitar tendencies and much cooler vocals.

There are 3 great albums to start off with. I'll post more later.

quote:

Originally posted by L. R. William Spencer:
the label at the top of your post says 9 pm on june 22nd but whatever you say

That's because you set your own personal time to Pacific. joji is eastern, so you're both correct.

I have a question for slipdream. How many "classic" albums do you think I've mentioned at this site which nobody has heard of? Next question, not that you care, but how many "classic" albums have I mentioned which are impossible for people to listen to anymore unless they come to my house? Lastly, how many classic albums are there which nobody but you, I or a select "UNenlightened" few will ever care about?

quote:

Originally posted by mark f:
I have a question for slipdream. How many "classic" albums do you think I've mentioned at this site which nobody has heard of? Next question, not that you care, but how many "classic" albums have I mentioned which are impossible for people to listen to anymore unless they come to my house? Lastly, how many classic albums are there which nobody but you, I or a select "UNenlightened" few will ever care about?

I don't care at all how obscure or how insanely popular an album is. All I look for is the intent of the artist.

I told him (or her?) about these albums because they are lost classics, and it's possible he may never hear about these bands unless someone tells him. (Not that I'm assuming nobody here has ever heard of them, I defitinely wouldn't be surprised if someone has.) It's not that never-talked about albums are the only great albums (in fact, I hate that kind of thinking).

Anyways, go ahead and answer your own questions so I can know what you talking about. (and why you are being so hostile.)

quote:

Originally posted by slipdream:
First off, I just made a list like everyone else has been doing. Just because I didn't write a detailed explanation for every inclusion or "band to avoid" doesn't mean I don't have one. Be patient, I'll give explanations.

To MarkF, the intention of this thread was to give advice to a person that is seeking to discover great music. It would be rude to go off on a 5-page tangent about why Radiohead is such an overrated band. (But don't worry, I'll start a thread on it really soon.)

To show how Radiohead is so overrated, it's much easier to expose people to albums that blow most of Radiohead's albums away. Since I can accomplish that AND this thread's purpose at once, that's what I'll do.

Also, I'll try to talk about bands barely mentioned on boards like these and by indie rock "experts." There are great bands metioned on these boards, but I won't bother talking about them when you can hear about them a million other places.

To Interplay,

First off, start with Swivel Stick's Notes Towards a Mental Breakdown.

This album ranges from prime Swans to Big Black fury to to late-'80's Sonic Youth soundscapes to early Husker Du to Band of Susans guitar air formation, topped off with segues of free jazz.

Listening to this makes me wonder if Thom Yorke had a copy of this album handy while working on OK Computer, a great album which comes off as mere child's play compared to this one.

Each song (not counting the interlude pieces) has between 2 and 5 innovative guitar parts that defeat the notion that all the good riffs have been used up long ago. In fact, many of the riffs are downright stunning.

Listen to this album and you'll see why I find Radiohead so overrated. It's not that Radiohead is horrible, it's that albums like this just blow them away.

The songs on the album were inspired by a series of 1963 interviews with psychiatric patients, and the drawings those patients made afterwards. The albums even came packaged with note cards about the patients.

After listening to this you'll be going to half.com and putting most of your Radiohead albums up for sale.

(You can contact the band and they will gladly send you a CD-R of this album for free. Just PM me. You won't be able to find an original anywhere, unfortunately.)

Next, you need to go to half.com and buy Plexi's Cheer Up for 75 cents. Plexi is one of the most underrated bands of all time. Cheer Up, their only full-length album, is a lost classic. And trust me, it's definitely worth the $3.44 (price including shipping).

This band has some of the best lyrics I've ever heard. Funny, bitter, existential, and romantic. Michael Barragan is one of the best guitarists ever. You'll find a uniqute blend of cock-rock with avant-garde textures and noise.

These guys could have been the next Nirvana. Unfortunately, drug addiction got the best of them.

Give me your e-mail address and I will gladly send you a few songs.

Since we are talking about albums that you can get cheap on half.com, I'll bring up Nudeswirl. Like Plexi, they only had one album. You can also get it (it's self-titled) for 75 cents.

The opening song is one of the best songs of the decade. It sets the tone for the rest of the album--driving rock with metal overtones and soaring, psychedelic guitar work. Think 80's Dinosaur Jr. with Jimmy Page guitar tendencies and much cooler vocals.

There are 3 great albums to start off with. I'll post more later.

I'm interested in checking these out now... you seem very well informed. my email is lspencer@exeter.edu

could you send me some of your very favorite stuff?

Absolutely L.R.

However, I am on dial-up currently, so it may take a while to get music files sent.

But I will gladly send music to anyone that asks. (It's worth it to expose people to great and often-times unheard of music.)

Edit: look over in the "free mp3 & streams" board, where I posted a bunch of mp3's (and videos). (Though you've probably heard a lot of it, or maybe all of it.)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slipdream,

quote:

Originally posted by L. R. William Spencer:

I'm interested in checking these out now... you seem very well informed. my email is lspencer@exeter.edu

could you send me some of your very favorite stuff?

I just read your post about how you just like music to "chill" to, and how you don't take it too seriously.

Of course, I'll still send you stuff, but beware, that Notes Towards a Mental Breakdown is NOT music to "chill" to. And most of the stuff I listen to is psychologically disturbing (Bare Minimum, The Dead C, etc. And the song My Violent Daydream from NTAMB is one of the most disturbing songs I've ever heard), intense/dissonant (Unwound, 80's Sonic Youth, etc.), and in general happens to be music of a more edgy, introspective, artistic nature (as opposed to the simple non-threatening rock'n'roll of Stereolab, the V.U and all the V.U.-worshipping bands such as BRMC, the Strokes, and the JMC.

quote:

Originally posted by L. R. William Spencer:
the label at the top of your post says 9 pm on june 22nd but whatever you say

East Coast, fool.

Wow, I lose power for a few hours and look at what I miss. I've never really heard any Sonic Youth, so I can't comment on that whole debacle...oh, crap, I gotta get ready for an interview. I'll post something later.

quote:

Of course, I'll still send you stuff, but beware, that Notes Towards a Mental Breakdown is NOT music to "chill" to. And most of the stuff I listen to is psychologically disturbing (Bare Minimum, The Dead C, etc. And the song My Violent Daydream from NTAMB is one of the most disturbing songs I've ever heard), intense/dissonant (Unwound, 80's Sonic Youth, etc.), and in general happens to be music of a more edgy, introspective, artistic nature (as opposed to the simple non-threatening rock'n'roll of Stereolab, the V.U and all the V.U.-worshipping bands such as BRMC, the Strokes, and the JMC.

hahaha. You sure are one "edgy" dude slipdream. Just when I was thinking it might be fun to post on these boards a bit more regularly again, you remind me why I stopped. hilarious stuff though, keep it up.

You can only listen to my music if you wish to be disturbed. All those who listen to music for enjoyment, be gone with you! Load up your iPods and let's sacrifice some virgin goats for our lord and master.

quote:

Originally posted by ericg75:
You can only listen to my music if you wish to be disturbed. All those who listen to music for enjoyment, be gone with you! Load up your iPods and let's sacrifice some virgin goats for our lord and master.

hmmm....it sounds like in general most of the users on this boards are very unfriendly and hostile towards new members. But that's ok.

I never said I didn't enjoy music. I never said I only listened to "disturbing" music. I just pointed out some music I listen to that could be could be considered disturbing (though it might not be to others) to point out I don't ONLY listen to music to "chill out" and relax.

If you are that type of music listerner, fine. It's just important to know that some people take it more seriously (like myself).

I'm not sure what I did to piss you 3 guys off (besides having differing opinions). I know I'll probably never change your minds about music. My suggestion: ignore what I post. It's mainly intended for more opened-minded people that want to discover new music (read the thread-starters post), not for long-time "jedi" board members that constantly put new members down to feel better about themselves and to make up for their own shortcomings or lack of music knowledge.

So, you like the Jesus and Mary Chain (or whoever) and I come in and say they are lame? Who cares. Instead of whining and ganging up on me for threatening your pre-existing ideas on what music is "good" and what is "bad," lets try and have an intelligent discussion.

Slipdream, I think you need to understand that different people enjoy listening to different kinds of music and that there's nothing wrong with that. I listen to music for enjoyment and to help me deal whatever's happening to me. Sometimes what I must enjoy is something dissonant or abrasive, but usually not. I like listening to a lot of slow, serious, depressing music, but I would never claim that I'm somehow a better music listener or have better taste than someone who prefers power-pop of twee. (All we really mean when we say someone has good taste is that they like the same things we do.)


If you think listening to something abstract, harsh, or drastically different from typical music is somehow "better" than listening to Stereolab or Belle and Sebastian, I'd like to hear exactly why you think that. I don't think there's a good argument for it.

I appreciate your comments, and you seem like a knowledgeable music fan, but there's no need to impugn people who like different music than you. It doesn't make sense and it just rankles everybody. Stick around, but chill. (Maybe pop in some Belle and Sebastian. )

Raving,

I never said I didn't listen to "slow" music. I would say over half of my music collection is quiet, soft, and slow music. You can make quiet, subtle music that is also artsy, bleak, and devastating.

I named artists that I thought lacked passion. The Velvet Underground were purposely bland and average, and purposely made bland, unambitious music.

Now to go off on a rant about rock vs. rock'n'roll...

Most of the bands I mentioned do nothing more than rehash simple rock'n'roll (though they may combine it with eff-you, nihilistic lyrics to gain critical acceptance.)

I said earlier I liked rock music, which (by my defition) refer to music of an edgy, introspective, artistic nature, and "rock and roll" refer to music designed to avoid those things.

Rock n' roll bands are fascinated with the actual act of rocking. To draw upon established rock n' roll traditions and to deliver these traditions to fans (both on record and in concert) is the primary objective of these bands. Their obsession with proving their r n' r mettle knows no bounds and extends to how they dress, what they say in interviews, the type of people they date, their album art, their song titles... even down to the brands of beer and cigarette they consume.

Their music is not concerned with improving you as a person; it is about the performers themselves. What they do is a very calculated ploy (whether the bands know it or not) designed to make their listeners' minds temporarily shun the problems of life and submit to the band like sheep to a shepherd, or like churchgoers to a priest. Not coincidentally, the roots linking rock n' roll to gospel run very deep; modern acts such as the Nation of Ulysses/ the Make Up and the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion use faux-proselytizing to incite crowds to evangelical fervors.

Rock can be distinguished from its slow cousin by traits such as atonal melodies (instead of harmonious ones), use of minor keys, use of icy synths (instead of warm Hammond organs or Rhodes pianos), noise, screaming and/or mumbling of lyrics (especially the latter), jagged guitar/bass/drum parts (instead of conservative chord progressionss/licks), incisive lyrics (instead of escapist ones), and so on. However, use of frailty and gentleness is also a very anti-rock-n'-roll stance to take, meaning quiet groups like Low, Talk Talk and Kraftwerk all qualify.

The lesson here isn't to avoid all rock n' roll music, but to be aware of its presence and its devastating effects on the music scene. The Stones, Cheap Trick, Social D, Springsteen, etc. all have the occassional great song; Sonic Youth and Swans sure have plenty of bad ones.

See, rock n' roll did once have a function: It helped to annihilate the light, living-room orchestral pop of Lawrence Welk, Glenn Miller Orchestra, Paul Anka, Andy Williams, et al.

But it is truly time to move forward. The saddest thing is when great bands decide to dramatically shift their sound towards old-school rock n' roll/ blues/ folk rock to become more "authentic" sounding. This has happened to You Am I, Mercury Rev, Ween, U2 (Rattle and Hum era), the Verve, Magic Dirt, Starflyer 59, Swervedriver (Ejector Seat Reservation era), Beck, Husker Du, Slowdive (Mojave 3), and so on.

It will continue to happen to all of your favorite bands. Even super-ironic, iconoclastic Pavement fizzled to an end as slaves to the '60s trad-pop yoke. You just want to strangle bands when they do this, because it's a huge slap in the face of their longtime fans.

The current "alt.country" explosion (aided by gushing praise from critics) means that countless more groups will sell their souls and become more twangy and palatable every day.

Rock n' roll bands treat you as though you are an idiot who cannot comprehend more complex forms of expression. It's similar to how parents speak in baby-talk to their little whippersnappers, as though the kids are too dumb to understand things said in a normal voice.

Here are some examples of Rock bands:

Unwound (probably the ultimate rock band ever), Swans, Fugazi, '80s Sonic Youth (Confusion is Sex should be viewed as the first true "rock" album ever made), Hovercraft, Band of Susans, Bare Minimum, Helmet, Neurosis, Slint, Tool, Mogwai, Can (although the drumming was funky), Low, Nirvana, Juned, My Bloody Valentine (post-'87), Cocteau Twins, Slowdive, Juned, '80s Metallica, Portishead, Kraftwerk, Quicksand, Glenn Branca, early Idaho, Sunny Day Real Estate, Codeine, early Swivel Stick, Bailter Space, the Dead C, Rake, Talk Talk, the Cure, Southpacific, This Heat, Lync, the Chameleons UK, Joy Division, Big Black, Lowercase, Interpol, Flying Saucer Attack. And even Queensryche.

Here are some examples of rock n' roll bands:

Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Little Richard, KISS, the Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Guided By Voices, most Beatles, Ted Nugent, Blue Cheer, the Donnas, Sahara Hotnights, Nashville Pussy, Bruce Springsteen and (especially) the E Street Band, the Flamin' Groovies, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Tina Turner, the Clash, the Replacements, the Faces, Eddie Cochran, the Ramones, the Cramps, Guitar Wolf, Van Halen, Cheap Trick, the Grateful Dead, Social Distortion, the Georgia Satellites, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Reverend Horton Heat, the Jesus and Mary Chain, Genitorturers, Jon Spencer Blues Explosion, the Lilys, T. Rex, Sweet, New York Dolls, Warrant, Fischerspooner, Poison, Ratt, Guns n' Roses, J. Geils Band, the Eagles, the Stooges (except side two of Fun House), Redd Kross, Suede, the Pogues, Sum 41, Jimmy Buffett, Oasis, Superdrag, Supergrass, the Supersuckers, Supagroup, Turbonegro, the Mooney Suzuki, ZZ Top, Bon Jovi, Loverboy, the Knack, the Stray Cats, the Kinks, the Hives, the Strokes, High Rise, Huey Lewis and the News.

As you can see, rock is a more exclusive club than rock n' roll is, since it is much harder and less financially rewarding to pull off.

quote:

Originally posted by slipdream:
I'm not sure what I did to piss you 3 guys off (besides having differing opinions). I know I'll probably never change your minds about music. My suggestion: ignore what I post. It's mainly intended for more opened-minded people that want to discover new music (read the thread-starters post), not for long-time "jedi" board members that constantly put new members down to feel better about themselves and to make up for their own shortcomings or lack of music knowledge.

I think your last sentence is exactly why you've been met with a litte hostility (although, I was just trying to make a joke). Your posts come off as a bit condescending, as if you somehow are more enlightened about music than the rest of us - and without knowing any of our backgrounds. Since almost no one's musical tastes jive in here, I don't think anyone's mad just because you have different taste. For the record, I even enjoy some of the albums on your list.

Anyway, that's my two cents. This simpleton is going to go listen to some Lou Reed.

My eyes have been opened! I never realized the prison that I had been living in until now. It's like I'm seeing the world for the first time. How have I been getting by all these years...

Seriously, avoiding people who make condescending, pompous rants like the ones you've made so far are the reason I almost never go to concerts anymore.

I'm gonna go listen to Glenn Miller now.