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Guru |
Those aren't terrible lyrics. Have you read the entire song? I have the same thoughts every time I go back to my hometown and drive by the decrepit mini-malls that sprung up in the '70s. In fact there's a mall a few miles away from me that was demolished recently. It's depressing as hell, and I can only hope it gets covered with daisies. Don't you get the irony in that song? Maybe not. Here's a link to the lyrics: http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/flowers.htm ********************** Metal-Archives POTD
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Know-It-All |
No no. I get the lyrics. That's part of the problem. I get them right away. It's not that I disagree with the sentiment, it's that he could have said the same thing in a much much more poetic way. |
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Guru |
One man's iambic pentameter is another man's prison. ********************** Metal-Archives POTD
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Jedi |
I agree. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I'm not sure what's up with all the Bright Eyes backlash, but I've gotta say, as much as I love Modest Mouse and the Talking Heads, neither Bryne nor Brock hold a candle to Conor Oberst as a lyricist. I think what I like most about his style is what I like about early Bruce Springsteen. He has a way of taking the mudane and making it poetic.
Well, now, I tell myself I've mended under these patches of blue sky. There are still a few holes that let in a little rain. And so it is crying on my shingles. My floorboards moan under my feet. The refrigerator is whining, so I've got reason to complain. But I am not gonna bless you with such compliments, some degrading psalm of praise, like the kind that converted you to me so long ago. Because the truth is that gossip's as good as gospel in this town. You can save face but you won't ever save your soul. And that's a fact. -From "Make War" ----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter. |
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Know-It-All |
Yes. Oberst is a real poet. I agree completely. If someone can show me a lyric of Brock's that even begins to compare to succinct beauty of ericg75's quote from "Make War" I will be very surprised. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I think, in general, that Oberst is "considered" emo, so that's three strikes against him, plus some people think he's whiny (emo, again). I think Loaded has some of the best lyrics I've ever heard, but I guess it's up to y'all!
"Naked Woman, Naked Man Where did you get that nice sun tan?" |
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Know-It-All |
Well first of all it's not necessarily fair to compare the lyric sheet of Modest Mouse or Talking Heads song with that of a Bright Eyes song, seeing how Oberst is a singer-songwriter and therefore his songs will generally have more of a focus on "real" poetry while Modest Mouse or Talking Heads have more of an emphasis on the way those lyrics actually play out in the song. That said those lyrics from Make War in the context of the song are really damn good and thanks for reminding me of them. But seriously check thetreegetswheeledaway when you have a chance to Gravity Rides Everything, 3rd Planet, Life Like Weeds, Bankrupt on Selling, Never Ending Math Equation, Broke, and Interstate 8 to name a few to show the poetics of Isaac Brock. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I think he unfairly gets lumped into the emo catagory. Fevers & Mirrors may be a little on the emo side, but I haven't seen much from his past three discs that I'd consider emo. When I think emo, I think of bands like Sunny Day Real Estate. I don't think too many emo bands are having Emmylou Harris sing harmony on their albums. ----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter. |
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Know-It-All |
see, my problem is that you're making it sound like lyrics should be poetry. lyrics are whatever the hell you want them to be. in fact, the reason why i like brock's lyrics so much are BECAUSE they sometimes aren't poetic (many of them are....brighteyes215 named a few good examples). i love the fact that brock often uses poor grammar and diction....for him, it's the emotion that's being conveyed as much as the words he's using. it sounds so much more sincere, IMO. he can say some very profound things while using simple phrases and grammar. it's often very conversational (byrne is amazing at doing this very same thing). it's sure as hell doesn't have to be poetic, and yeah, conor oberst can be poetic, and that's great, but it maybe it's the amount of time and effort it must take for him to sound poetic that turns me off a little bit from his lyrics (and why i think the others i mentioned are better). it's that aspect that i think sounds insincere. i like that byrne and brock can be conversational and simple (yet say profoundly interesting things)....because that's how real people talk. |
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Jedi |
Sometimes I wish they would.  |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I think if you're talking solely about great lyrics, I think they should be able to stand on their own. Call it poetry if you want, but I think you should be able to look at a lyric sheet and say, "That's a really interesting way to say that." Though I enjoy Modest Mouse tremendously, I don't think I'd be that impressed by Brock's words if I was just reading them from a lyric sheet. Much of the power of what he's saying comes from his vocal delivery and the music. Neither of those things prove him to be a great lyricist. I don't think he ranks among guys like Dylan, Springsteen, or Tom Waits. ----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter. |
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Jedi |
I don't really give a damn about dylan or springsteen, but in Waits' case I think the delivery is just as crucial as with modest mouse. You don't buy a record to look at the lyrics sheet. You have to HEAR it. |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
I agree, and if we had been dicussing songwriting or performance, you'd be 100% correct. But instead, we were talking about good lyrics. In the case of lyrics, I don't think the artist's delivery of the lyrics makes any difference on whether the lyrics are good or bad. I'd liken it to a film's screenplay. If the story's good, you'll typically enjoy the movie, even if the acting and directing isn't the best. On the flip side, good acting and directing can make a good movie out of a bad script, but it doesn't make the script itself any better. And you should give a rat's ass about Dylan and Springsteen if you want two shining examples of great songwriting in American music. ----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter. |
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Jedi |
Fair enough about the lyrics.
As for Bob and Bruce... But so many people are nuts about them - I don't really see why they need any more love. They're institutions already! I've listened to some of Nebraska, and I've been trying to listen to more dylan. I found them both nice enough, but in both cases I just haven't felt the earth move yet. On a couple songs in Nebraska I thought there was some magic, but by the end of the song I was bored. mebbe it's adhd, I dunno. |
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Slacker First Class |
That's a beatles reference, and one that everyone on the planet who wants to be a lyricist/poet makes at some point in their life. Conor Oberst is a little overrated, especially where I live, which is in the halls of UCSC. Anyway. My overrated bands? Well, considering I avoid most bands given their pop status, I miss a lot of good stuff. But still: Radiohead: not really indie, but pretentious enough! Spoon (saw them open for DCfC, so boring . Not that DCfC wasn't, but in a different way.) DCfC themselves: I love Plans and Transatlanticism, but the rest is just indie bland crap. Ben Gibbard is much better with an acoustic guitar and some friends. Elvis Costello: can anyone seriously listen to his voice? (And yeah, I'm not a fan of bob, though I am of all his contemporaries. I'm just intimidated by all his press.) 'but then again maybe this life is like a sleeping mountain waking up to shape the land' www.last.fm/user/Blue_Lightsaber/ |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
What's wrong with Elvis Costello's voice? I've never had a problem listening to it, but for me the main draw to Costello was his songwriting anyway. Easily one of the finest lyricists in rock. ----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter. |
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Apprentice Guru |
Conor Oberst is overrated in my book. His lyrics, in my opinion, are not much different from the mediocre poetry of a young college student. I was a creative writing minor in college, and while I don't claim to be a great poet myself, CO's lyrics remind me of workshop classes and "deep" poems written by troubled 20-year-olds with hair in their face. I just don't buy him as the wonder-kid he's been made out to be.
Elliott Smith, for example, articulated his problems and emotions on a level I don't think Conor will ever reach. |
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Slacker First Class |
Right! If there's an indie whiner I listen to, it's Colin Meloy, and that's only because he whines about other people's problems. Your point about workshops is also true- poignantly so, because that's what I live and breathe and man, is it annoying. Elliot Smith is awesome, but too hard for me to listen to becaues I never can see any hope in his songs (small wonder). But that's another subject.
...other than the fact that it's toneless? I watched him sing on that tribute thing with Fiona Apple, and she ran circles around him. Honestly, as much as I love lyrics, if I can't listen to a person's voice, that's it. This is why I will never be counted among Bob Dylan's fans, nor Johnny Cash's. Sad, but true. I'm seriously picky. (also another reason oberst annoys the crap out of me.) 'but then again maybe this life is like a sleeping mountain waking up to shape the land' www.last.fm/user/Blue_Lightsaber/ |
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"Forum Moderator" Super Bad-Ass Jedi |
...other than the fact that it's toneless? I watched him sing on that tribute thing with Fiona Apple, and she ran circles around him. [/QUOTE] I will say that his voice isn't what it used to be, but he's had a 30 year career. I'd listen to any of his '70s output before you write him off as toneless. ----- People claim I'm possessed by the devil, but mama, I know I'm possessed by your daughter. |
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